[Sledge]

The big problem is finding a good place to calibrate. I'd prefer something local (Pittsburgh, PA). However, considering I'm about to spend $3k on a piece of a/v gear, a trip to AIX is cheap

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sledge /img/forum/go_quote.gif The big problem is finding a good place to calibrate. I'd prefer something local (Pittsburgh, PA). However, considering I'm about to spend $3k on a piece of a/v gear, a trip to AIX is cheap

LOL, sure is. Thankfully, Lorr Kramer does the work for setting up the trip, and also doing the PRIR calibration and checking everything is working. Consider it a bonus that Lorr does not charge for his time, or if you think the Realiser is way too expensive, think of it as included in the price.

Definitely post your interest for an AIX, Mi Casa, or other studio trip. It's easy to coordinate with other Head-Fiers that are interested as well.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

To directly compare retail costs (when originally purchased) of SVS Headphone only system, to Speaker only system, I'd like to compare exactly what costs I can compare to with my personal Speaker based Home Theater.

Keep in mind my SVS Realiser system sounds much better than my Speaker set up, so, I won't count the $200 spent on the Mi Casa calibration. Which is cheaper than any real room treatments for a speaker rig. (although mine's pretty ghetto). My real weakness other than the Room Treatment, are my Speakers.


Speaker Home Theater

NHT Super Zero Speakers $150 Each x5 = $750
Speaker Stands and Mounting equipment = $150
Velodyne HGS10 Subwoofer = $1800
Total = $2700


Smyth SVS Realiser "Stealth Home Theater"

Smyth SVS Realiser System = $3000
Crowson TES-100 Stereo Motion System = $599
Total = $3599


Please note that I am not counting "peripherals" such as Amps, PreAmp Processors, cables, wires, etc, as many of them are actually shared with each other.

If I were to have something that would be more equal comparison sound quality wise, I'd definitely have to up the speaker cost to at least $300 each and 7 speakers (because my Realiser PRIR is for a 7.1 set up) total for $2100 worth of Speakers making the real comparable total = $4050 And I'm not including any extra cable, wire, stands / mounting equipment.

So, that's how I justified the math. Yes, it's not cheap. But a REAL speaker based home theater is anything but cheap, and is in fact more expensive.

So, do the math and it can very well be cost effective. And best part is it's easily transportable. How many people can carry an entire home theater in their carry on luggage?

-Ed

 

[Sledge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL, sure is. Thankfully, Lorr Kramer does the work for setting up the trip, and also doing the PRIR calibration and checking everything is working. Consider it a bonus that Lorr does not charge for his time, or if you think the Realiser is way too expensive, think of it as included in the price. Definitely post your interest for an AIX, Mi Casa, or other studio trip. It's easy to coordinate with other Head-Fiers that are interested as well. -Ed

I'm interested in a studio trip. Which studio? Any

 

[jgazal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it match every speaker 100%, IMO no. But it's very close, like 90-95% depending on the speakers. It's mainly the sub frequencies that can feel a little off. The Crowson tactile tranducers help greatly, but it's just not going to reproduce the exact full body resonance from the very low bass frequencies of real subwoofers. Unless Smyth Research comes up with a haptic feedback full body suit in the future.

Is this a headphone/amplifier bottleneck, a software/algorithm limitation or psycoacoustics / body incomplete perception? What do you think?

 

[frenshprince]

Edwood,
I would like to use your pics in a french forum.

Is that ok to you ?

 

[Edwood]

Sure thing, just make sure to post credit where the pic comes from.

-Ed

 

[moonboy403]

Hey Ed, from your experience, did your K1000 improve your movie watching experience when paired with the SVS?

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Ed, from your experience, did your K1000 improve your movie watching experience when paired with the SVS?

Not so much with LFE bass, since the K1000 has rolled off bass at the lowest frequencies.

But from a psychoacoustic standpoint, the sheer openness of the K1000's helps even more with the virtual speaker effect since there is nothing stuffed into your ears, or on your ears. So it's purely a psychosomatic response at first. But after you get used to listening to the Realiser with other headphones, overall balanced frequency response is more important.

In the end, my absolute favorite headphones paired with the Realiser is the JH Audio JH13. It has the most balanced sound, and the bass frequency extension is the absolute deepest I've ever heard. Really works well with the LFE subwoofer effect. I must say, it makes for a very weird sensation to have your ears plugged up, then turn on the Realiser and hear convincing sound coming from everywhere around the "room".

I'd say overall, bass light headphones are really not a good match for the Realiser, especially if you are intending to use it with action oriented Movies and Games the most.

-Ed

 

[moonboy403]

So even with a tactile transducer, the K1000 isn't a good match?

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So even with a tactile transducer, the K1000 isn't a good match?

Tactile transducers help, but you can tell there's a significant gap in the bass. It's like running tiny satellite speakers with a subwoofer and having the crossover still set at a 50Hz.

-Ed

 

[frenshprince]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood In the end, my absolute favorite headphones paired with the Realiser is the JH Audio JH13. It has the most balanced sound, and the bass frequency extension is the absolute deepest I've ever heard. Really works well with the LFE subwoofer effect. I must say, it makes for a very weird sensation to have your ears plugged up, then turn on the Realiser and hear convincing sound coming from everywhere around the "room".

But how can you do the measurement with microphones + the JH13 in your ears ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood I'd say overall, bass light headphones are really not a good match for the Realiser, especially if you are intending to use it with action oriented Movies and Games the most. -Ed

What do you think about the stax 202 provided with the realizer ?

 

[bmoura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not so much with LFE bass, since the K1000 has rolled off bass at the lowest frequencies. But from a psychoacoustic standpoint, the sheer openness of the K1000's helps even more with the virtual speaker effect since there is nothing stuffed into your ears, or on your ears. So it's purely a psychosomatic response at first. But after you get used to listening to the Realiser with other headphones, overall balanced frequency response is more important. In the end, my absolute favorite headphones paired with the Realiser is the JH Audio JH13. It has the most balanced sound, and the bass frequency extension is the absolute deepest I've ever heard. Really works well with the LFE subwoofer effect. I must say, it makes for a very weird sensation to have your ears plugged up, then turn on the Realiser and hear convincing sound coming from everywhere around the "room". I'd say overall, bass light headphones are really not a good match for the Realiser, especially if you are intending to use it with action oriented Movies and Games the most. -Ed

Interesting. So it sounds like the flat response and bass on the Stax trump the open nature of the K1000.

The JH-13 looks intriguing. I'm also wondering how you handle the studio calibration with a sealed in-ear design like that.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmoura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. So it sounds like the flat response and bass on the Stax trump the open nature of the K1000.

The major benefit of the openess of the K1000's soundstage is not much of an advantage since the Realiser can make $1 iBuds sound open and spacious. (of course the details and tonality would be horrible)

Quote:

The JH-13 looks intriguing. I'm also wondering how you handle the studio calibration with a sealed in-ear design like that.

An HPEQ is not necessary since they're inside your ears. The unique shape and size of people's ears is what effects sound traveling into them.

The JH13 has such a huge frequency range, it's does not need to have parts of the frequency boosted as others might. And with headphones that simply cannot reproduce certain frequency levels effectively (mainly the extreme highs and lows), no amount of EQ will make something from nothing.

-Ed

 

[bmoura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif An HPEQ is not necessary since they're inside your ears. The unique shape and size of people's ears is what effects sound traveling into them. The JH13 has such a huge frequency range, it's does not need to have parts of the frequency boosted as others might. And with headphones that simply cannot reproduce certain frequency levels effectively (mainly the extreme highs and lows), no amount of EQ will make something from nothing. -Ed

OK, so with the JH13 you just use the personalized head/room measurements with the Realiser.

Once I get the unit from Smyth and get it set up here with the Stax 202, guess I'll have to ponder the other headphone listening options !