[stuck limo]

Yet, nobody in any forum for the Source has posted that they have received their Source. I imagine that after waiting all these years, someone would post a happy message somewhere to confirm that the Source really does exist and that it works.

According to what I've heard from the management, most of the people who backed our units (especially the higher end units) don't hang out in the online communities. And people are more likely to post only if there are problems with their units. Edit: I should point out: I'm referring to overseas backers such as Russia, China, etc. We have a lot of high end backers from Europe and Asia.

And you look at IGG --- even there, it's the same 10 people posting. Most of the backers aren't communicating or discussing publicly their shipping schedules.

Anyway, my observations are somewhat anecdotal, so you can take them or not take them.

 

[superuser1]

If something that is so elusive is shipped and received by high-end customers, i would have definitely posted a happy message.

One word ... Apathy!

 

[germay0653]

According to what I've heard from the management, most of the people who backed our units (especially the higher end units) don't hang out in the online communities. And people are more likely to post only if there are problems with their units. Edit: I should point out: I'm referring to overseas backers such as Russia, China, etc. We have a lot of high end backers from Europe and Asia.

And you look at IGG --- even there, it's the same 10 people posting. Most of the backers aren't communicating or discussing publicly their shipping schedules.

Anyway, my observations are somewhat anecdotal, so you can take them or not take them.

What's the criteria used for determining shipping order for the Source or any other product for that matter?

I'm in for 1 Source SE, 1 Vi Tube DAC SE, 1 Wave Titanium and 2 Wave 64's. It's not an insignificant amount invested. I know a number of other "domestic" backers, who've also invested heavily who do frequent these boards and would have posted something had they received anything. They have been here on these and your own board, myself included, from the beginning, and I'm talking the first Geek Out on Kickstarter, and we haven't heard one word from any of them regarding the Source or Vi Tube DAC. Junker was the only one that received his Vi Tube DAC, quite a long time ago, and posted a great review of it. If you were in our position, how would you feel? It's extremely difficult to stay optimistic and maintain confidence in LH Labs based on performance to date.

I have no doubt I will receive the products but as I've stated before and will state again, give us honest, relevant (not vague) information as to when we might receive our product(s) and we might be a little more amenable. This diatribe is not directed at you personally nor is it a reflection on you. We can see you're attempting to work with the community but if LH Labs wants our trust again, earn it!

 

[marflao]

According to what I've heard from the management, most of the people who backed our units (especially the higher end units) don't hang out in the online communities. And people are more likely to post only if there are problems with their units. Edit: I should point out: I'm referring to overseas backers such as Russia, China, etc. We have a lot of high end backers from Europe and Asia.

And you look at IGG --- even there, it's the same 10 people posting. Most of the backers aren't communicating or discussing publicly their shipping schedules.

Anyway, my observations are somewhat anecdotal, so you can take them or not take them.

Well....I count myself to those 10 people posting at IGG.
Because I just can´t accept LHL´s dishonest behaviour.

Even simple promises as biweekly updates cannot be accomplished.
And those never-ending lame excuses why shipping can´t be done. Supplier here, factory there. 3 years later and you guys don´t even know what BOM is required. This is a joke!! Missing manpower to get this done?? Yeah...definitely.

I bet you haven´t reached all backers yet to find out if their orders are correct......

 

[stuck limo]

What's the criteria used for determining shipping order for the Source or any other product for that matter?

I'm in for 1 Source SE, 1 Vi Tube DAC SE, 1 Wave Titanium and 2 Wave 64's. It's not an insignificant amount invested. I know a number of other "domestic" backers, who've also invested heavily who do frequent these boards and would have posted something had they received anything. They have been here on these and your own board, myself included, from the beginning, and I'm talking the first Geek Out on Kickstarter, and we haven't heard one word from any of them regarding the Source or Vi Tube DAC. Junker was the only one that received his Vi Tube DAC, quite a long time ago, and posted a great review of it. If you were in our position, how would you feel? It's extremely difficult to stay optimistic and maintain confidence in LH Labs based on performance to date.

I have no doubt I will receive the products but as I've stated before and will state again, give us honest, relevant (not vague) information as to when we might receive our product(s) and we might be a little more amenable. This diatribe is not directed at you personally nor is it a reflection on you. We can see you're attempting to work with the community but if LH Labs wants our trust again, earn it!

As everyone here should know, I'm one of you guys. I've been on this forum long before I ever thought about joining LH Labs. I just happen to be a fan, and I was worried about the state of the company, and the opportunity to join was there, so I jumped. And I get paid to work with an audio company. Pretty sweet deal. So I will always try to work with the community -- that's part of why I was hired. I was already in it.

That said, I understand absolutely everything you're saying and I understand the frustration. You guys have every right to be pissed. I've never tried to make excuses for previous bad behavior, even though it may come across that way to some people. But I do have to defer to LH when I'm trying to figure out what the actual story is behind several of these aspects. But again, I do press Larry to answer questions, I let him know what you guys are thinking, I explain to him the general vibe of the updates and community. I just spearheaded a very long, pretty intense discussion over LH changing some key internal structure points with Larry.

The problem I have and that Larry has, is that based on past (negative) LH history, it's very hard for him to come out into the forums because he gets beat up so much when he tries to explain or answer questions. So I guess the question that all these communities have to ask themselves is: do you/they want Larry to interact with you personally, and how are you going to treat him? Are you going to go for negative, personal attacks, or keep it somewhat professional and courteous (note: I'm not saying play softball). He's extremely gunshy and so I have to be out here instead. Just something to think about. I've asked him to come out and answer questions and encouraged him to be more involved. It's pretty hard though to do, and I'm not saying he's blameless --- but I think some of the (understandable) anger from some of the people is completely over the top and hurts discussions more than it helps.

I was even accused on IGG of planting false pictures of Vi Dac chassis units as a way of "deceiving" backers, which is absolutely insane crazy. Like I was sitting around, doing my best Barnaby from Babes in Toyland impression, scheming and plotting and putting a plan into action for tricking people. These types don't help anything, they just hurt relations.

Anyway, you can take my advice or not --- it's just my observation. And I think everyone involved has extremely fair points in this situation.

I have another list of questions for him, that I'm working on. I'm trying to get all those answers. Lots of (apparent) miscommunication (putting that lightly) happened within LH Labs before I got here, so I'm trying to clear up any stories or misconceptions or inaccurate information that was previous floating around. If anyone is wondering why it takes so long to get answers a lot of the times --- look, we're still working to change the culture around LHL itself, so there's still issues. Larry is also traveling all of the time, so there's a delay there. It's something I'm trying to work through, so I appreciate everyone's patience in these matters. And I'm talking to him about making the Q&A a more regular feature, hopefully.

There was also some concern (rightfully so) from backers over their warranties expiring before the tech team could work on them. I am actively working on something with Larry to address those concerns. I have a pretty good idea of what it will end up looking like but it's not 100% certain, so until I get total confirmation, don't anyone panic about existing warranties.

 

[stuck limo]

I bet you haven´t reached all backers yet to find out if their orders are correct......

No, we haven't. It's a one-man show (not by my choice) at this point. But I am working them hard and long.

Even simple promises as biweekly updates cannot be accomplished.

I'd like to have more updates, but the information coming through on these projects is a trickle.

On a side note, the new chassis on the Vi DAC should be nearing completion, soon-ish. (I know what I was told, but I'll hold out until it's official)

 

[marflao]

No, we haven't. It's a one-man show (not by my choice) at this point. But I am working them hard and long.



I'd like to have more updates, but the information coming through on these projects is a trickle.

At least YOU, Jarek, are honest.

Still awkward that the precise orders cannot be identified and assigned properly to each backer after all those years therefore you [LHL] can order the required parts. So how do you tackle this?

Regarding the communication: on the one hand Larry recognizes that something in regards to the comm towards the backers has to be changed which resulted in hiring you.
On the other side he appears to be the bottleneck himself because he doesn´t give you the answers to our questions. Not cool.

 

[germay0653]

Today, in the US, is a day we give thanks for all that we have. I'm grateful and thankful to be around family and friends and to be able to share our experiences, both good and bad.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!

 

[Nightfish]

@stuck limo Thank you for the reply and the insight. I am also one of the few people that posts on IGG (and I used to post on the LH forums before they became unusable). I want to thank you for your work and I can imagine that things get annoying for you because you are the one who has to chat with angry backers, which was caused by other people. I do not know the internal setup and communication of LH Labs but you can get more information than any of us regular backers. So I guess that's why you get bombarded with questions, tickets and emails. Hopefully you can manage and please know that, me at least, I do appreciate what you're doing.

That said, you write that it's hard to get Larry to be more active in the forums. That is a shame. If he would spend just a bit of time, face the people, then I can imagine that a lot of people will calm down. The silence and the way that Larry treats the people that gave him money, that is exactly what is driving people mad (at least for me). So by staying away from the forums, he's just making it worse.

If he is too shy (or he can make up an excuse and say he's busy) then why can't he just post some pictures. Or email you some and then you post them? That would take a few seconds and at least let people know what happened to the Wave and Source. It really is not that difficult to take a photo or two. When packing the SE Source, why had nobody taken a picture of an unpacked unit? Front and back. Two pictures, ten seconds. That would make me a lot more confident about receiving any product from LH Labs one day.

If the 25 SE Sources were shipped out two weeks ago, then hopefully one of the 25 people frequents one of the forums. Somewhere. I am sure that one of the other readers from here, even if himself / herself is not a SE Souce backer, would have seen a post somewhere. I have seen crossposts from Asian (mostly HK, Japan and Singapore) forums here about hifi shows where the Source showed up. So, if the Source really was shipped out, I am sure that by now we would have heard about it. This does not make me very confident for the shipping of a much larger amount of Waves...

Wasn't 2017 supposed to be the "year of the Wave"? Didn't Larry himself say that? And yet we are no further now than on 01.01.2017 it seems...

 

[stuck limo]

@stuck limo Thank you for the reply and the insight. I am also one of the few people that posts on IGG (and I used to post on the LH forums before they became unusable). I want to thank you for your work and I can imagine that things get annoying for you because you are the one who has to chat with angry backers, which was caused by other people. I do not know the internal setup and communication of LH Labs but you can get more information than any of us regular backers. So I guess that's why you get bombarded with questions, tickets and emails. Hopefully you can manage and please know that, me at least, I do appreciate what you're doing.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

If he is too shy (or he can make up an excuse and say he's busy) then why can't he just post some pictures. Or email you some and then you post them? That would take a few seconds and at least let people know what happened to the Wave and Source. It

really is not that difficult to take a photo or two. When packing the SE Source, why had nobody taken a picture of an unpacked unit? Front and back. Two pictures, ten seconds. That would make me a lot more confident about receiving any product from LH Labs one day.

I was NOT happy about the Source pictures I received. I let Larry know of my extreme displeasure and I'm working to ensure it does not happen again. This wasn't the only time something like that happened, and then I had to deal with upset people on the forums demanding why more information wasn't available. He's aware of the issue and my very unhappy reaction and hopefully we can work through this.

People have to remember: I get what I get from the office staff. Larry is out of the country, and I'm working remotely in another state, so I can't just walk in there and take pictures. I would if I could.

 

[reginalb]

...Now, that isn't how they SELL it to you. They like to make it seem like it's a quick and easy process... But you can't blame LHLabs for the state of all business in the world. We live in a world full of marketing. Buyer beware...

Said companies should have their feet held to the fire without exception. I think you might have a form of Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Nightfish]

Thanks, I appreciate that.



I was NOT happy about the Source pictures I received. I let Larry know of my extreme displeasure and I'm working to ensure it does not happen again. This wasn't the only time something like that happened, and then I had to deal with upset people on the forums demanding why more information wasn't available. He's aware of the issue and my very unhappy reaction and hopefully we can work through this.

People have to remember: I get what I get from the office staff. Larry is out of the country, and I'm working remotely in another state, so I can't just walk in there and take pictures. I would if I could.

Thank you once again. Isn't today a holiday in the US? Hopefully you don't have to spend the day online on various forums and instead can go and meet family and friends. Maybe one day we get the photos that we asked for....

 

[stuck limo]

Thank you once again. Isn't today a holiday in the US? Hopefully you don't have to spend the day online on various forums and instead can go and meet family and friends. Maybe one day we get the photos that we asked for....

Nah, it's late at night here and I did my socializing with everyone today anyway.

 

[Beefalo]

I just got an email from Gavin Fish hawking some power wallet (because I had funded a previous campaign) with some 'sorry things haven't worked out with LH Labs' 'apology'.
Dude's got some big balls, I'll give him that.

 

[doctorjazz]

Didn't open it yet, but I see I got something from him as well, like the same pitch. WOW!