[NZtechfreak]

Can anyone confirm if via SE out GO v2 and V2+ can deliver 1000mW somewhere I read only via balanced out it delivers full power and not via SE output . Thanks

 
Correct, providing the information they supplied one of the members here (may have bee the V2 thread?) is accurate.

 

[getclikinagas]

 

Can anyone confirm if via SE out GO v2 and V2+ can deliver 1000mW somewhere I read only via balanced out it delivers full power and not via SE output . Thanks

Correct, providing the information they supplied one of the members here (may have bee the V2 thread?) is accurate.

 
Yes, this(below) was posted earlier in the thread.
Can someone help me understand why(or why it is okay) the Single ended power is much lower compared to the older Geek out (single ended; The Geek Out 1000 is able to deliver 4 Vrms into 33 ohms, which translate into about ~500 mW.)
 
More importantly, how does this affect real world performance(Single ended).
Does this make the GO1000/720 a more versatile option as far as power requirement is concerned?

Hello Frederic.edinval,

This is Matt from technical support, I have received your support case and will be further assisting you with any questions you may have regarding your product.

I apologize for the delayed response.

Here are the calculations for Single Ended and Balanced outputs for the Geek Out V2+ in "High" gain.

Single Ended:

32ohms: 0.125w --> 125mw

50ohms: 0.08w --> 80mw

300ohms: 0.013w --> 13mw

Balanced:

32 ohms: 0.5w --> 500mw

50ohms: 0.32w --> 320mw

300ohms: 0.053 --> 53mw

Hope this helps!

Matt

Ticket: https://support.lhlabs.com/helpdesk/tickets/18489

 

[miceblue]

Balanced lines/differential signaling/AKA balanced audio provides twice the voltage output since there are 2 amplifiers for each channel of audio (4 total for stereo). Single-ended only has 1 amplifier driving a channel.

Basically the balanced side has amps driving left+, left-, right+, and right-, whereas the single-ended side has amps driving left+ and right+ (the other wires are connected to the shared ground connection).


LH Labs lists that the maximum power outputs are 1000 mW at 16 Ω on high gain and 100 mW on low gain. These numbers are from the balanced outputs since they are the maximum numbers; the original Geek Out values were all single-ended.

See LH Lab's video here:

[video]https://youtu.be/Imv5-OhQbZI?t=1m16s[/video]


Ohm's Law states:
power = voltage * current
and since current = voltage / resistance,
power = voltage² / resistance

High gain balanced output:
1000 mW = 1 W = voltage² / 16 Ω
voltage = 4 Vrms

Low gain balanced output:
100 mW = .100 W = voltage² / 16 Ω
voltage = 1.265 Vrms


So for single-ended outputs, just do the math with half the voltage values.
High gain single-ended output:
power = (4/2 Vrms)² / 16 Ω
power = 0.25 W = 250 mW

Low gain single-ended output:
power = (1.2649/2 Vrms)² / 16 Ω
power = 0.025 W = 25 mW


Just to confirm Matt's numbers, let's do a calculation at 32 Ω.
High gain single-ended output:
power = (4/2 Vrms)² / 32 Ω
power = 0.125 W = 125 mW


Of course this is assuming the circuit is perfectly linear with loads, which may or may not be the case.

 

[getclikinagas]

Balanced lines/differential signaling/AKA balanced audio provides twice the voltage output since there are 2 amplifiers for each channel of audio (4 total for stereo). Single-ended only has 1 amplifier driving a channel.

<snip>
So for single-ended outputs, just do the math with half the voltage values.
<snip>

 
Thank you for the informative post @miceblue. I see why the Single ended values are lower than Balanced.
 
But, in your experience and opinion: If a majority of my current and future peripheral gear is single ended, am I better off buying the GO1000 to ensure "insufficient power" is not a concern?
In other words, how much of a (power)bottleneck are these single ended values? Is this sufficient for most headphones?
32ohms: 0.125w --> 125mw
50ohms: 0.08w --> 80mw
300ohms: 0.013w --> 13mw

 

[WCDchee]

Thank you for the informative post @miceblue
. I see why the Single ended values are lower than Balanced.

But, in your experience and opinion: If a majority of my current and future peripheral gear is single ended, am I better off buying the GO1000 to ensure "insufficient power" is not a concern?
In other words, how much of a (power)bottleneck are these single ended values? Is this sufficient for most headphones?
32ohms: 0.125w --> 125mw

50ohms: 0.08w --> 80mw

300ohms: 0.013w --> 13mw

Thank you for the informative post @miceblue
. I see why the Single ended values are lower than Balanced.

But, in your experience and opinion: If a majority of my current and future peripheral gear is single ended, am I better off buying the GO1000 to ensure "insufficient power" is not a concern?
In other words, how much of a (power)bottleneck are these single ended values? Is this sufficient for most headphones?
32ohms: 0.125w --> 125mw

50ohms: 0.08w --> 80mw

300ohms: 0.013w --> 13mw

Yes more than enough. The he1000 requires 64mw to play at 108db. That's way loud. Of course there's the matter of the current headroom but assuming that isn't an issue, in terms of volume yes that's more than enough power for just about anything.

 

[flashmp3]

The single input is way too low...............if i were you i wouldn't based myself on comments like "The he1000 requires 64mw to play at 108db"..........otherwise just buy a Fiio e6 for 30 bucks.........there is world between having sufficient power to drive a set of headphone and having sufficient power to drive WELL a set of headphones.........for example my JVC SZ2000 (king of bass) is 16 ohm and can do 108db / 1mW. However its max input is 1500mw !! My htc m8 can drive it. But if i amp with ibasso D14 it's just night and day !! It needs that power to be able to give great bass. Otherwise it sounds crap......i could give you tons of example......amping is very important so that the headphones have the power needed to give their full potential.....it's like you. You could live eating only once a day....however you would not be able to do sports as you would feel weak...........you could walk but not run.......

 

[miceblue]

Thank you for the informative post @miceblue
. I see why the Single ended values are lower than Balanced.

But, in your experience and opinion: If a majority of my current and future peripheral gear is single ended, am I better off buying the GO1000 to ensure "insufficient power" is not a concern?
In other words, how much of a (power)bottleneck are these single ended values? Is this sufficient for most headphones?
32ohms: 0.125w --> 125mw

50ohms: 0.08w --> 80mw

300ohms: 0.013w --> 13mw

From my experience, yup the single-ended should be just fine.
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285

I almost never have to use the high gain on any amplifier I use, so any power calculations based on amplifier outputs is usually irrelevant to me since those numbers are the reported maximum (AKA on high gain) values. Unless I'm listening to really quite music, I never used the FiiO E7 on high gain, likewise for the E12, nor the JDS Labs C5/C5D, Objective 2 (I use unity gain exclusively), HA-2, Aune B1, Cozoy Astrapi, and I sold the Geek Out 1000 because I never needed that power output over the GO450.

The only time I need to use high gain would be when using my super inefficient AKG K240 Monitors, which Innerfidelity measured:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK240Monitor.pdf
688 Ω, 0.447 Vrms to reach 90 dBSPL, or 0.29 mW which is a good amount of power to ask for at such a high impedance.

Low gain single-ended output:
power = (1.2649/2 Vrms)² / 688 Ω
power = 0.0008197 W = 0.8197 mW

So in this case, the single-ended low-gain option can still drive the K240 Monitor (93 dBSPL peaks). I don't listen to music very loud (I've measured 75-ish dBSPL), nor do I listen to super dynamic music like classical, so I am perfectly comfortable using the GOv2+ with the high-impedance, low efficiency K240 Monitor via single-ended and on low gain.

At local meets, I've seen people use near-maximum volume on high gain......it's quite scary, and concerning if you think about it. So in the end, it depends on how you listen to music.





Actually, because I'm talking about all of this, this Reminds Me.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xhdy9zBEws[/video]


I'm listening to this song right now, GOv2+ connected to the iFi micro iUSB3.0, low-gain, single-ended output, with the K240 Monitor and this is what AudioMIDI says what my digital volume level is.

-27 dB still leaves lots of room for volume control.

With the V-MODA Zn in-ear earphones, I'm at -56 dB volume.

 

[miceblue]

OK now I'm confused. You can plug in the GOv2+ into 2 USB ports and you can see a green LED lit (meaning it's charging) as well as a blue one if you turn it on to use.

I left the GOv2+ plugged in as so overnight and this morning it was dead.

Soooooooo I guess you can't use it while charging at the same time.

 

[Dithyrambes]

I'm a bit tired of the power discussion and people being like power doesn't matter, as long as the volume is loud enough. Its like comparing a Adam A3x 4.5 inch woofer monitor to a A7x 7 inch woofer, and being like.....4 inch woofer can go plenty loud and play from 60-50khz fine. So at same volume levels, do the 60-50khz sound the same for both speakers? No.....because the 4 inch woofer has to work so hard to get the lower frequencies which can cause problems in the mids, etc, and also work harder to get to higher volume levels. Bigger one can probably hit the frequencies as well as volume with much more ease, sounding much better as well as effortless.
 
Same thing with power. Yeah you can have a dac/amp with enough power to drive a headphone to blistering levels, but at the same time, it can definitely sound constricted and harsh.
 
At the same time, this doesn't mean any 7 inch speaker can beat out a 4.5 inch speaker, just because it has more size and more power. So the argument goes both ways and people should just go with the one they prefer.

 

[Audio Addict]

My understanding all the silk screening isn't done but they went ahead and sent it out and will swap it out later.  Haven't listened yet but I didn't think anything on the inside had changed.
 

 

[AxelCloris]

  My understanding all the silk screening isn't done but they went ahead and sent it out and will swap it out later.  Haven't listened yet but I didn't think anything on the inside had changed.
 

 
That looks like a notable improvement. I'm definitely on board with the redesign.

 

[Audio Addict]

While better than the previous unit it is still not up to the competition's case quality. It is still a 3D printed case but has metal plates attached on front and back.

 

[NZtechfreak]

  I'm a bit tired of the power discussion and people being like power doesn't matter, as long as the volume is loud enough. Its like comparing a Adam A3x 4.5 inch woofer monitor to a A7x 7 inch woofer, and being like.....4 inch woofer can go plenty loud and play from 60-50khz fine. So at same volume levels, do the 60-50khz sound the same for both speakers? No.....because the 4 inch woofer has to work so hard to get the lower frequencies which can cause problems in the mids, etc, and also work harder to get to higher volume levels. Bigger one can probably hit the frequencies as well as volume with much more ease, sounding much better as well as effortless.
 
Same thing with power. Yeah you can have a dac/amp with enough power to drive a headphone to blistering levels, but at the same time, it can definitely sound constricted and harsh.
 
At the same time, this doesn't mean any 7 inch speaker can beat out a 4.5 inch speaker, just because it has more size and more power. So the argument goes both ways and people should just go with the one they prefer.

 
Yep, anyone with much experience with the HE6 can tell you just getting loud enough isn't all there is to it.

 

[Audio Addict]

While better than the previous unit it is still not up to the competition's case quality. It is still a 3D printed case but has metal plates attached on front and back.

Just put the v2+ through 1 cycle of the Purist Audio Ultimate CD and now have the THX00 plugged in. Just using the IEM amp setting, it still sounds pretty much the same as the earlier version, which to me is very musical and not the typical ESS sound.

My biggest complaint is having to use their driver software to control the volume.

I have to ask if the competition has volume control?

 

[miceblue]

I don't think power output has anything to do with sound quality per se unless the amp is definitely insufficient in power output as to have clipping occur.

If a headphone demands 50 mW, an amp will only output 50 mW even if it can output 50 W. The only thing is that the volume knob would be severely restricted near the beginning and that's no fun to have.

An amp's quality is way different from strictly power output. Sure an iPhone can drive the K701 to sufficient volume levels, but it's not about power, it's about the amp's quality.

The OPPO HA-2 can drive the K701 just fine but I like the sound coming out of the v2+ more, and that outputs less power (19.6 mW at 32 Ω for the HA-2 versus the GOv2+'s 12.5 mW, both on low-gain). Power can't possibly be the determining factor.

The GOv2+ sounds great. Power output should not be a thing to worry about unless you for some reason intend to use it with the HE-6. Just because it doesn't output 1.21 jiggawatts does not mean headphones will sound like poop.