LH Labs Geek Out v2 Discussion Thread

[sheldaze]

@AustinValentine I certainly have had no desire to reconnect back my Bifrost Uber for comparison. I suppose I'll need to do that before selling the Uber. But I agree with you, this thing is that good. I've had this connected all weekend, and continue to hear more and more details.

 

[RedJohn456]

   
I would - definitely. I only demoed it for about a week or so. FWIW, I really love the form factor and build quality on the Groove. With its button placement, it kinda reminds me of a tiny Roku remote. My theory on the reason that it sounds like mush with lower impedance headphones is the Groove's Constant Current Drive system. In this respect, it's kinda like a Bakoon: extremely high output impedance. More sensitive dynamic headphones and balanced armature IEMs almost need not apply given what the high output z can do re: bass and treble. When paired with my HD650 and planars, it sounded better. 
 
Probably the best way I can put it is like this: With the Groove, I felt that I was comparing it to other portable DAC units (Dragonflys, v1 Geek Outs, Schiit Fulla, Emotiva's Big Ego, Audioengine D3, etc.). With the Geek Out V2/V2+, I felt like I had to compare it with desktop units to get a decent comparison (Schiit Bifrost Uber/Gungnir, AMB Gamma2, my old Sonic Frontiers TransDAC, Theta DS Pro Progeny, LH Pulses, etc.). It sounded good enough that it felt like a category error to compare it with the other dongle DAC units. 
 
I actually hadn't heard about the DACportHD Indiegogo before! Thanks for the tipoff. Somehow my radar didn't pick that one up. (I only knew about the DACport Slim, I didn't know that there were two models.) I really loved the DACport LX. For my preferences, I thought it sounded better than the Geek Out 450...though the Geek Out 450 is a better DAC unit on technicalities. I like a slightly warmer sound, as long as that warmth doesn't translate into increased distortion, weak/soft transients, occluded detail, and blurred/indistinct imaging. 
 
Once I have my V2+ in hand, I'll have to go track one of those down for a comparo. That could be a pretty good duke out. 

 
Wow this was exactly what I was looking for. I have a loaner Apogee Groove, and I was wondering how the GO V2 sounded. I am about to buy the V2 and was apprehensive if I was making the right decision in buying the V2 versus the Groove. So without any hesitation, V2 has a better DAC than the groove?
 
You sir have made my day. Now I am left contemplating whether to get the V2 or V2+  If I get V2, I can have it shipped now vs Late Oct for V2+. Bonus points since V2 works out to be 100 dollars cheaper for me vs the groove.
 
Order will be placed tonight

 

[AustinValentine]

   
So without any hesitation, V2 has a better DAC than the groove?

 
Without hesitation, to my ears it does. (And glad that the impressions helped!)

 

[RedJohn456]

   
Without hesitation, to my ears it does. (And glad that the impressions helped!)

I am listening right now Audirvana -> Macbook -> Groove -> AKG K612. I am really enjoying this. And you're telling me the V2 is better. man oh man can't wait. Okay now having last minute doubts. order the V2 or V2+  Care to help me in that regard?
 
Also, I find the groove to be somewhat inconsistent. Doesn't sound as good with my Sony Z5 compared to my dynamic driver iems and gear.

 

[RedJohn456]

   
Without hesitation, to my ears it does. (And glad that the impressions helped!)

Also, would love to read more comparisons between the V2 and groove. Did you order both theV2 and V2+?

 

[AustinValentine]

 
I am listening right now Audirvana -> Macbook -> Groove -> AKG K612. I am really enjoying this. And you're telling me the V2 is better. man oh man can't wait. Okay now having last minute doubts. order the V2 or V2+  Care to help me in that regard?
 
Also, I find the groove to be somewhat inconsistent. Doesn't sound as good with my Sony Z5 compared to my dynamic driver iems and gear.

 
V2 if you're just going to use it from your laptop. V2+ if you plan on using it via OTG (Android) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS) to your smartphone. I only have the V2+ on order myself because I plan on pairing it with my Note 4, or using it in library locations with my Macbook where I may not have access to outlets. 
 
The Groove is definitely a more inconsistent performer as a DAC/Amp unit. That's just the way that most Current Mode amplification works itself out. For the things it works for though, it works really well. (Just look up comments on how good the HD800 sounds with the Bakoon HPA-21, for instance.) 
 
Quick clarification though: when I said it's a better DAC I meant that in terms of just the DAC. While I did use them on and off as just Groove/V2+ > Headphones, most of my use was with the Groove/V2/V2+ output into my ALO RX Mk3B/Leckerton UHA 6S MKII portable amps. (Both the Groove and Geek Out are designed to work as low distortion line-outs when put to max volume.) I only used the both of them by single-ended output as well as I didn't have a balanced TRRS adapter to test the V2/V2+'s balanced output.
 
Why did I feel the need to clarify all that? The current mode amplification in the Groove might be a better fit for the AKG K612. The K601/K612 can have some hardness in the mid-treble and Apogee's Current mode amps can do a lot for smoothing that out. I can't be 100% certain that the V2/V2+ will sound better for your particular use case. I think it's pretty damn likely to be better for your headphones, regardless of the change in amp topologies between the two units, because the overall sound quality of the LH units are just that much better than that of the Groove. But since I didn't demo the Groove and V2+ out with your specific headphone and I don't have your set of ears, plus I mostly used them as a DAC to feed an external amp, I can't guarantee that you'll like it more. 

 

[RedJohn456]

   
V2 if you're just going to use it from your laptop. V2+ if you plan on using it via OTG (Android) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS) to your smartphone. I only have the V2+ on order myself because I plan on pairing it with my Note 4, or using it in library locations with my Macbook where I may not have access to outlets. 
 
The Groove is definitely a more inconsistent performer as a DAC/Amp unit. That's just the way that most Current Mode amplification works itself out. For the things it works for though, it works really well. (Just look up comments on how good the HD800 sounds with the Bakoon HPA-21, for instance.) 
 
Quick clarification though: when I said it's a better DAC I meant that in terms of just the DAC. While I did use them on and off as just Groove/V2+ > Headphones, most of my use was with the Groove/V2/V2+ output into my ALO RX Mk3B/Leckerton UHA 6S MKII portable amps. (Both the Groove and Geek Out are designed to work as low distortion line-outs when put to max volume.) I only used the both of them by single-ended output as well as I didn't have a balanced TRRS adapter to test the V2/V2+'s balanced output.
 
Why did I feel the need to clarify all that? The current mode amplification in the Groove might be a better fit for the AKG K612. The K601/K612 can have some hardness in the mid-treble and Apogee's Current mode amps can do a lot for smoothing that out. I can't be 100% certain that the V2/V2+ will sound better for your particular use case. I think it's pretty damn likely to be better for your headphones, regardless of the change in amp topologies between the two units, because the overall sound quality of the LH units are just that much better than that of the Groove. But since I didn't demo the Groove and V2+ out with your specific headphone and I don't have your set of ears, plus I mostly used them as a DAC to feed an external amp, I can't guarantee that you'll like it more. 

Wait, you already have a unit on hand for comparison right? Hmm, I was hoping for a more clear cut winner as I can't afford to own both. Fwiw the AKG is a loaner to see if I like open backs (BOY DO I) and I am hooked. Thinking of picking up an HD600 and to drive it with the V2. I think 98 percent of my use will be with my macbook. I currently have a blackberry and not sure if it will support otg dac. Works fine with my E17 but not sure again.
 
I already have another portable amp. but I really like the slim form factor of the V2+. Since I am buying them at the early backer price, you think its a good plan to get the V2 now so I don't have to wait for the V2+ to be ready to ship? Then sell the V2 to fund my V2+ purchase? You think anyone would bite at 235 USD?

 

[RedJohn456]

   
V2 if you're just going to use it from your laptop. V2+ if you plan on using it via OTG (Android) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS) to your smartphone. I only have the V2+ on order myself because I plan on pairing it with my Note 4, or using it in library locations with my Macbook where I may not have access to outlets. 
 
The Groove is definitely a more inconsistent performer as a DAC/Amp unit. That's just the way that most Current Mode amplification works itself out. For the things it works for though, it works really well. (Just look up comments on how good the HD800 sounds with the Bakoon HPA-21, for instance.) 
 
Quick clarification though: when I said it's a better DAC I meant that in terms of just the DAC. While I did use them on and off as just Groove/V2+ > Headphones, most of my use was with the Groove/V2/V2+ output into my ALO RX Mk3B/Leckerton UHA 6S MKII portable amps. (Both the Groove and Geek Out are designed to work as low distortion line-outs when put to max volume.) I only used the both of them by single-ended output as well as I didn't have a balanced TRRS adapter to test the V2/V2+'s balanced output.
 
Why did I feel the need to clarify all that? The current mode amplification in the Groove might be a better fit for the AKG K612. The K601/K612 can have some hardness in the mid-treble and Apogee's Current mode amps can do a lot for smoothing that out. I can't be 100% certain that the V2/V2+ will sound better for your particular use case. I think it's pretty damn likely to be better for your headphones, regardless of the change in amp topologies between the two units, because the overall sound quality of the LH units are just that much better than that of the Groove. But since I didn't demo the Groove and V2+ out with your specific headphone and I don't have your set of ears, plus I mostly used them as a DAC to feed an external amp, I can't guarantee that you'll like it more. 

 
I actually don't like the amp in the groove as much. For some headphones such as K612, it shines but amp wise its not as as capable as the dac imo. I use it Line out to my VE RunABOUT which is a much cleaner amp and neutral amp. With that said, how good is the amp in the V2? I mean, it will be strong enough to drive the HD600 right? Or the ATH r70x (450+ ohms)?
 
If you're using Line out to use as dac only, means you prefer your own amps over it. In that case, I already have a very capable portable amp, so I can stick with the V2 and line out to my amp as needed and still use the internal amp for my balanced headphones like the Sony Z5.

 

[AustinValentine]

 
Wait, you already have a unit on hand for comparison right? Hmm, I was hoping for a more clear cut winner as I can't afford to own both. Fwiw the AKG is a loaner to see if I like open backs (BOY DO I) and I am hooked. Thinking of picking up an HD600 and to drive it with the V2. I think 98 percent of my use will be with my macbook. I currently have a blackberry and not sure if it will support otg dac. Works fine with my E17 but not sure again.
 
I already have another portable amp. but I really like the slim form factor of the V2+. Since I am buying them at the early backer price, you think its a good plan to get the V2 now so I don't have to wait for the V2+ to be ready to ship? Then sell the V2 to fund my V2+ purchase? You think anyone would bite at 235 USD?

 
I don't have one on hand currently, but I've had them in house and at the Chicago meets for demo with my own gear and others. (I'm waiting "patiently" for my V2+ to arrive >.<)
 
V2 + HD600 would be a fantastic budget combo. I can say for certain that the V2/V2+ sounds better than the Groove with the HD580/600/650 series. If that's your plan, and I think it's a very good one, the V2 would serve you well. 
 
If 98% of your use will be with your Macbook, pick up the V2 now and spare yourself the stress. You won't have to worry about LH shipping delays and if you decide to get the V2+ later you shouldn't have any difficulty unloading the V2 on the forums. 
 

   
With that said, how good is the amp in the V2? I mean, it will be strong enough to drive the HD600 right? 
 
If you're using Line out to use as dac only, means you prefer your own amps over it. In that case, I already have a very capable portable amp, so I can stick with the V2 and line out to my amp as needed and still use the internal amp for my balanced headphones like the Sony Z5.

 
The Class A amp in the V2 is actually pretty nice. I know quite a few people that just don't bother with carrying their portable amplifiers with it because it more or less renders it unnecessary. (The ALO that I use is just a beast portable really. It's good enough to be a dedicated desktop amplifier.) It can drive any of the higher impedance Senn's just fine even single ended, it should work just fine with the r70x, and I've heard it drive quite a few planars very well (Zach/ZMF's t50rp mods, LFF's Paradox, an LCD2.2 non-Fazor, and an HE-500). I wouldn't try to drive any very hard to drive planars out of it (read: HE-6) but for most everything else it does great. 
 
If you have a decent external amp that you like, the V2 plus would also be much better than the Groove in that regard.

 

[RedJohn456]

   
I don't have one on hand currently, but I've had them in house and at the Chicago meets for demo with my own gear and others. (I'm waiting "patiently" for my V2+ to arrive >.<)
 
V2 + HD600 would be a fantastic budget combo. I can say for certain that the V2/V2+ sounds better than the Groove with the HD580/600/650 series. If that's your plan, and I think it's a very good one, the V2 would serve you well. 
 
If 98% of your use will be with your Macbook, pick up the V2 now and spare yourself the stress. You won't have to worry about LH shipping delays and if you decide to get the V2+ later you shouldn't have any difficulty unloading the V2 on the forums. 

Thats music to my ears Thank you! I actually took the groove to a local store to a audition the HD650 and ATH R70x and it wasn't up to the task imo, so the very fact that the V2 works well with the HD series is great news indeed. It seems that the Groove might be marginally better in certain situations, but is more inconsistent whereas the V2 is more reliable and predictable with gear. 
 
Sorry for the game of 21 questions lol  Not many people have had experience with both so I wanted to pick your brain for a bit. Do you ever plan to pick up the groove for yourself? I am putting in the order asap and have it shipped Will post my impressions and comparison to groove (i have it for two more weeks). This way I have no regrets I can be sure it better for me

 

[AustinValentine]

 
Sorry for the game of 21 questions lol  Not many people have had experience with both so I wanted to pick your brain for a bit. Do you ever plan to pick up the groove for yourself? I am putting in the order asap and have it shipped Will post my impressions and comparison to groove (i have it for two more weeks). This way I have no regrets I can be sure it better for me

 
No worries! I won't be picking up a Groove for myself - but I do applaud Apogee for trying something new in this product category. For a first attempt, it's really quite good. Much better than, say, Emotiva's Big/Little Egos, which I didn't like much at all. More players in this segment means more competition, which with any luck will force reasonably rapid product innovation. Nothing but a good thing. 

 

[RedJohn456]

   
No worries! I won't be picking up a Groove for myself - but I do applaud Apogee for trying something new in this product category. For a first attempt, it's really quite good. Much better than, say, Emotiva's Big/Little Egos, which I didn't like much at all. More players in this segment means more competition, which with any luck will force reasonably rapid product innovation. Nothing but a good thing. 

Just read over the edit. I think the GO V2 is the best purchase for me at the moment. Means that with the V2 I would have a decent dac which I can use for the foreseeable future and I already have a decent portable amp for more finesse. Makes me feel better about not getting the infinity version as that is 150 dollars more as the amp can help me with any gain issues.
 
I agree, the Groove is no slouch in the DAC department. Amp can be hit or miss.  
 
Btw, wich ALO amp are you using with the V2? (the RX? I wish I could get the ALO CDM, that is some end game schiit there lol) Also with the Leckerton, are you using the recommended OP amp or did you go for something different? I am going to develop my transportable build around the V2 as my dac and add some stuff to it bit by bit. 

 

[sheldaze]

If you think the Groove DAC is great, you're going to be blown away by the V2 

I still like the amplifier in the Groove, when driving something suitable, but there are several other USB DAC I would place ahead of the sonics of the Groove.
 
Happy listening! Sorry I missed your conversation. I was listening to the V2. And now back to the wonderful amp in the Groove 

 

[RedJohn456]

  If you think the Groove DAC is great, you're going to be blown away by the V2 

I still like the amplifier in the Groove, when driving something suitable, but there are several other USB DAC I would place ahead of the sonics of the Groove.
 
Happy listening! Sorry I missed your conversation. I was listening to the V2. And now back to the wonderful amp in the Groove 

Hey please feel free to join in! You know in this hobby, there are only a few times you experience a change so big that its mind-blowing. Thats the high we are always chasing in this hobby of ours
 
Well the groove gave me that WOW moment. I was using Fiio E17, SMSL M2 and onboard mac audio before getting the Groove loaner. So if you're telling me the V2 DAC is better I am really in for a treat! Do you own both the groove and V2? Would love to hear your thoughts on both of them

 

[AustinValentine]

 
Just read over the edit. I think the GO V2 is the best purchase for me at the moment. Means I have a decent dac I can use for the foreseeable future and a more capable portable amp for really hard to drive stuff. Makes me feel better about not getting the infinity version as that is 150 dollars more.
 
I agree, the Groove is no slouch in the DAC department. Amp can be hit or miss.  
 
Btw, wich ALO amp are you using with the V2? (the RX? I wish I could get the ALO CDM, that is some end game schiit there lol) Also with the Leckerton, are you using the recommended OP amp or did you go for something different? I am going to develop my transportable build around the V2 as my dac and add some stuff to it bit by bit. 

 
The ALO RX Mk3B. Unfortunately, ALO discontinued the 3B and 3B+ because they cost too much to manufacture. You can find them for very good prices from time to time in the classifieds and for $300 or less I think that they're a steal. (Like, a real steal. I prefer them to almost every other amplifier in the sub-$400 range that I've heard regardless of form factor. It's a very good amplifier.)
 
For the Leckerton, I've used both the stock opamp and the 4627-1B extensively. The 4627 is much better in nearly every way. I recently sold mine off because the ALO sounds better to my ears than the Leckerton for full sized cans. But the ALO amp has a hiss with sensitive IEMs. I don't really use IEMs anymore, so I didn't find myself using the Leck as much.