[musicday]

Funny thing is that the most excitement feature that makes me want and crave V30 is the 600Mhz LTE 5G from T-mobile, but these guys don’t want to unlock my V30 for at least 40 days, even if I paid full price....to hell with that. Better buy international version elsewhere

You will be selling your DX200 soonV30 sounds great.

 

[csglinux]

If I understand correctly, if I use the V30 stock player, it will sample (either up or down) to 16/48? And it will not play DSD native? If that is correct, it sounds like Neutron is the most popular solution? And Neutron will only up-sample redbook to 16/48 (if so, no biggie), but play all other hi rez, both PCM and DSD native?

Not quite I agree it's getting a bit complicated. I described the current situation in a previous post. I'll summarize it again here, because nothing has really changed in between:

Native LG Music app
Pros:
Plays all hi-res PCM formats without down-sampling and plays DSD via DoP
Cons:
Up-samples all 44/16 FLAC to 48/16 and outputs everything via USB as 48/16

Neutron
Pros:
Plays all PCM files at original sample rate through the internal DAC (or through USB-out if the "Direct USB Driver" option under the Audio Hardware menu is set to on). DSD can also be played via USB-out with DoP on.
Cons:
DoP doesn't work via HO (no audio output). With DoP off, Neutron converts all DSD to user-given-sample-rate PCM (via both internal DAC and USB out).

USB Audio Player Pro
Pros:
Outputs everything correctly via USB
Cons:
Can't (yet) play anything other than 48 kHz Android-resampled audio through the internal DAC

Poweramp
Pros:
Some people claim this is the best-sounding player on other devices
Cons:
On the V30, it outputs everything (including DSD) as 48 kHz PCM, both via HO and USB

So the stock LG music app is good for everything apart from USB output to a separate DAC, or for 44/16 playback. It does play DSD via DoP, but from everything I've read on the subject, this should be pretty much transparent, i.e., should sound the same as native DSD playback. It certainly sounds a lot better than any other player right now for DSD (those other players that handle DSD do so via conversion to 48 kHz PCM). Neutron does no up-sampling of 44/16 PCM. It goes through a native api that pads these tracks to 44/24, but there's no up-sampling. That's a really key advantage over every other app - including the LG music app, because the 44/16 format is so prevalent. For those that are interested in the effects of up-sampling, you can check out the following. Be warned. You may not be able to un-hear these effects, once you're aware of the problem.

Spoiler: Click here to go down the rabbit hole

Here's an FFT of 30 seconds worth of Dark Side Of The Moon. Most people will know this album, or will be able to get it via Tidal, etc:

Here's the difference between the original 44 kHz file going into the DAC and the 48 kHz up-sampled version that the Android mixer produces for the same section of track:

This is just error. For sure, it's a fair bit quieter than the track itself, so high gain and minimal dynamic range in the track will help mask it. But there are some situations where it's hard to avoid, i.e., you have sensitive IEMs, and you're listening at low volume to something with a reasonable dynamic range (i.e., sound following by a silent pause). One of the worst examples is the heartbeats from the beginning of the Dark Side Of The Moon album (thanks again to @kundica, who was, I think, the first person to report this problem). The following is in 96/24 wav, which should cause no additional up-sampling effects if played back on a V30. The effects here were recorded using a Vibro Veritas coupler with SE846 IEMs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyo16sgv11eek0w/artifacts.wav?dl=0

Those of you with sensitive IEMs will be able to hear this effect quite easily if you find a recording with a good dynamic range in 44/16 and play it back via the stock music app at low volumes. Listen, in particular, around what should be periods of silence.

 

[mlknez]

Not quite I agree it's getting a bit complicated. I described the current situation in a previous post. I'll summarize it again here, because nothing has really changed in between:

Native LG Music app
Pros:
Plays all hi-res PCM formats without down-sampling and plays DSD via DoP
Cons:
Up-samples all 44/16 FLAC to 48/16 and outputs everything via USB as 48/16
...

You got almost all correct. The native LG Music app actually is playing DSD natively without DoP. The android dumpsys audio flinger can only show the closest PCM rate. The library is not coded to show DSD rates.

 

[csglinux]

You got almost all correct. The native LG Music app actually is playing DSD natively without DoP. The android dumpsys audio flinger can only show the closest PCM rate. The library is not coded to show DSD rates.

Thanks for the info! BTW, how did you confirm this? I'd presume there'd be no audible differences? If we also can't distinguish between DoP and native via audio_flinger, how did you figure this out?

P.S. One thing logcat shows is an
AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_DOP flag which is privately declared by LG. So it seems the V30 at least has the option of DoP. How could we confirm this one way or the other?

 

[bronco1015]

Since we've come nearly full circle regarding comparison of different apps, wondering if someone who has used both the V20 and V30 could point me toward a good comparison of the sound of the DACs between the 2 or post one here? haven't seen one after looking through several pages of this thread not read all 89 pages but have read a good portion of them. I currently love my V20 and figured this was likely not a huge upgrade, but just brouzing and hoping to see whether there is a difference between the 2.

 

[ljnew]

Since we've come nearly full circle regarding comparison of different apps, wondering if someone who has used both the V20 and V30 could point me toward a good comparison of the sound of the DACs between the 2 or post one here? haven't seen one after looking through several pages of this thread not read all 89 pages but have read a good portion of them. I currently love my V20 and figured this was likely not a huge upgrade, but just brouzing and hoping to see whether there is a difference between the 2.

Don't believe it's a huge upgrade, but the v30 has a tad bit more sparkle and clarity imho. Also, the v30 is ridiculously (in a good way) black in the background. no noise. However, I'm in no rush to spend 800+. I will wait until the price comes down.

 

[shahkhan]

As my Lg V20 is a bright sounding device. Can some one compare it with SQ of V30 specially w.r.t the BASS preset included in stock music app of V30.

 

[TonyFro]

Since we've come nearly full circle regarding comparison of different apps, wondering if someone who has used both the V20 and V30 could point me toward a good comparison of the sound of the DACs between the 2 or post one here? haven't seen one after looking through several pages of this thread not read all 89 pages but have read a good portion of them. I currently love my V20 and figured this was likely not a huge upgrade, but just brouzing and hoping to see whether there is a difference between the 2.

I read somewhere that the V30 does not drain the battery using the DAC anywhere near as quickly as the V20.

 

[jusbe]

Don't believe it's a huge upgrade, but the v30 has a tad bit more sparkle and clarity imho. Also, the v30 is ridiculously (in a good way) black in the background. no noise. However, I'm in no rush to spend 800+. I will wait until the price comes down.

Very much enjoying the V30 with my Audio Technica E70s right now. Using some hybrid tips (silicone with memory foam inserts) and the sound is clean, balanced and fulsome. Darn fine, actually.

 

[mlknez]

The V20 had a DAC that had DSD512 in the specs where the V30 can do DSD256. That was not important, as no app can send DSD to the V20s Sabre DAC unconverted and undecimated. The V30 can at least receive DSD correctly via the stock LG Music player.

 

[Arome]

Not quite I agree it's getting a bit complicated. I described the current situation in a previous post. I'll summarize it again here, because nothing has really changed in between:

Native LG Music app
Pros:
Plays all hi-res PCM formats without down-sampling and plays DSD via DoP
Cons:
Up-samples all 44/16 FLAC to 48/16 and outputs everything via USB as 48/16

Does this only affect the output via USB or also the output via the headphone jack? What can you say about other apps like BlackPlayer EX?

 

[csglinux]

Does this only affect the output via USB or also the output via the headphone jack? What can you say about other apps like BlackPlayer EX?

Unfortunately, 44/16 files are up-sampled both via USB-out and via the headphone-output when using the native LG music app. To put things in perspective though - I'm not sure it's worth losing sleep over. This is a first world problem. In most tracks it's difficult to hear the artifacts this up-sampling creates. With higher-impedance headphones (which need a moderate-to-high volume setting) and compressed dynamic range tracks, you'll likely never hear any issues, and it'll still sound great.

Neutron is the only app I'm aware of so far that doesn't up-sample 44 kHz files. I just tested the free version of BlackPlayer and it also up-samples 44/16 FLAC. I'm afraid I wasn't motivated enough to test the paid version, but I'd bet that $2.99 that it up-samples these files too.

 

[eyenseo]

Not quite I agree it's getting a bit complicated. I described the current situation in a previous post. I'll summarize it again here, because nothing has really changed in between:

Native LG Music app
Pros:
Plays all hi-res PCM formats without down-sampling and plays DSD via DoP
Cons:
Up-samples all 44/16 FLAC to 48/16 and outputs everything via USB as 48/16

Neutron
Pros:
Plays all PCM files at original sample rate through the internal DAC (or through USB-out if the "Direct USB Driver" option under the Audio Hardware menu is set to on). DSD can also be played via USB-out with DoP on.
Cons:
DoP doesn't work via HO (no audio output). With DoP off, Neutron converts all DSD to user-given-sample-rate PCM (via both internal DAC and USB out).

USB Audio Player Pro
Pros:
Outputs everything correctly via USB
Cons:
Can't (yet) play anything other than 48 kHz Android-resampled audio through the internal DAC

Poweramp
Pros:
Some people claim this is the best-sounding player on other devices
Cons:
On the V30, it outputs everything (including DSD) as 48 kHz PCM, both via HO and USB

So the stock LG music app is good for everything apart from USB output to a separate DAC, or for 44/16 playback. It does play DSD via DoP, but from everything I've read on the subject, this should be pretty much transparent, i.e., should sound the same as native DSD playback. It certainly sounds a lot better than any other player right now for DSD (those other players that handle DSD do so via conversion to 48 kHz PCM). Neutron does no up-sampling of 44/16 PCM. It goes through a native api that pads these tracks to 44/24, but there's no up-sampling. That's a really key advantage over every other app - including the LG music app, because the 44/16 format is so prevalent. For those that are interested in the effects of up-sampling, you can check out the following. Be warned. You may not be able to un-hear these effects, once you're aware of the problem.

Spoiler: Click here to go down the rabbit hole

Here's an FFT of 30 seconds worth of Dark Side Of The Moon. Most people will know this album, or will be able to get it via Tidal, etc:


Here's the difference between the original 44 kHz file going into the DAC and the 48 kHz up-sampled version that the Android mixer produces for the same section of track:

This is just error. For sure, it's a fair bit quieter than the track itself, so high gain and minimal dynamic range in the track will help mask it. But there are some situations where it's hard to avoid, i.e., you have sensitive IEMs, and you're listening at low volume to something with a reasonable dynamic range (i.e., sound following by a silent pause). One of the worst examples is the heartbeats from the beginning of the Dark Side Of The Moon album (thanks again to @kundica, who was, I think, the first person to report this problem). The following is in 96/24 wav, which should cause no additional up-sampling effects if played back on a V30. The effects here were recorded using a Vibro Veritas coupler with SE846 IEMs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyo16sgv11eek0w/artifacts.wav?dl=0

Those of you with sensitive IEMs will be able to hear this effect quite easily if you find a recording with a good dynamic range in 44/16 and play it back via the stock music app at low volumes. Listen, in particular, around what should be periods of silence.

Are these results with the "alpha" of poweramp? If not would you mind trying the alpha? http://forum.powerampapp.com/topic/8810-poweramp-alpha-build-703704/

 

[csglinux]

Are these results with the "alpha" of poweramp? If not would you mind trying the alpha? http://forum.powerampapp.com/topic/8810-poweramp-alpha-build-703704/

Yes, that alpha version of Poweramp that you linked to has the same problem. I'm not trying to get into a fight with Poweramp fans. I'm simply saying that it up-samples 44/16 FLAC as do most/all other apps, apart from Neutron.

 

[eyenseo]

Yes, that alpha version of Poweramp that you linked to has the same problem. I'm not trying to get into a fight with Poweramp fans. I'm simply saying that it up-samples 44/16 FLAC as do most/all other apps, apart from Neutron.

Wasn't looking for a fight, just curious
Thank you for the info!