LG V30
Nov 20, 2017 at 4:56 PM Post #1,336 of 6,140
Not quite :wink: I agree it's getting a bit complicated. I described the current situation in a previous post. I'll summarize it again here, because nothing has really changed in between:

Native LG Music app
Pros:
Plays all hi-res PCM formats without down-sampling and plays DSD via DoP
Cons:
Up-samples all 44/16 FLAC to 48/16 and outputs everything via USB as 48/16

Neutron
Pros:
Plays all PCM files at original sample rate through the internal DAC (or through USB-out if the "Direct USB Driver" option under the Audio Hardware menu is set to on). DSD can also be played via USB-out with DoP on.
Cons:
DoP doesn't work via HO (no audio output). With DoP off, Neutron converts all DSD to user-given-sample-rate PCM (via both internal DAC and USB out).

USB Audio Player Pro
Pros:
Outputs everything correctly via USB
Cons:
Can't (yet) play anything other than 48 kHz Android-resampled audio through the internal DAC

Poweramp
Pros:
Some people claim this is the best-sounding player on other devices
Cons:
On the V30, it outputs everything (including DSD) as 48 kHz PCM, both via HO and USB

So the stock LG music app is good for everything apart from USB output to a separate DAC, or for 44/16 playback. It does play DSD via DoP, but from everything I've read on the subject, this should be pretty much transparent, i.e., should sound the same as native DSD playback. It certainly sounds a lot better than any other player right now for DSD (those other players that handle DSD do so via conversion to 48 kHz PCM). Neutron does no up-sampling of 44/16 PCM. It goes through a native api that pads these tracks to 44/24, but there's no up-sampling. That's a really key advantage over every other app - including the LG music app, because the 44/16 format is so prevalent. For those that are interested in the effects of up-sampling, you can check out the following. Be warned. You may not be able to un-hear these effects, once you're aware of the problem.

Here's an FFT of 30 seconds worth of Dark Side Of The Moon. Most people will know this album, or will be able to get it via Tidal, etc:


Here's the difference between the original 44 kHz file going into the DAC and the 48 kHz up-sampled version that the Android mixer produces for the same section of track:

This is just error. For sure, it's a fair bit quieter than the track itself, so high gain and minimal dynamic range in the track will help mask it. But there are some situations where it's hard to avoid, i.e., you have sensitive IEMs, and you're listening at low volume to something with a reasonable dynamic range (i.e., sound following by a silent pause). One of the worst examples is the heartbeats from the beginning of the Dark Side Of The Moon album (thanks again to @kundica, who was, I think, the first person to report this problem). The following is in 96/24 wav, which should cause no additional up-sampling effects if played back on a V30. The effects here were recorded using a Vibro Veritas coupler with SE846 IEMs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyo16sgv11eek0w/artifacts.wav?dl=0

Those of you with sensitive IEMs will be able to hear this effect quite easily if you find a recording with a good dynamic range in 44/16 and play it back via the stock music app at low volumes. Listen, in particular, around what should be periods of silence.

I would like to thank you for the detail tests that you have performed to achieve this shared information.

I'm sure that for most people, the LG dedicated player would be good enough and most will not be able to actually hear the Up-sampling difference.
I for one am quite impressed by the output of the LG player and I have tried both Neutron and PowerAmp Alpha.
Unless you are into "Serious" listening the native LG player should be good enough with any types of headphones.

I am enjoying mine with my BeyerDynamic DT880 250ohms...via Internal, Tidal Hifi and Spotify Premium.
Volume range is from 35 - 60 based on type of source.
 
Nov 20, 2017 at 7:47 PM Post #1,338 of 6,140
For those who have the T-mobile or Sprint variant versions, I download an app called "LG HiFi Status" from the GooglePlay Store for $.99 which now displays the status of the LG Hi-Fi connection as an icon...also Indicates whether a microphone is present.

What's the most upsetting thing about all of this is that I have to put the phone's volume at max for my HD600's. There are people saying that the v30 is driving their headphones well below that. Even my IEMs have to go up to at least 60.

From my understanding, if the impedance is less than a certain number then it will only use 2 of dacs in the phone. I had the sprint version too but returned it for the note 8. The screen quality and size is a real winner. Best most flagship hdtv tvs on the market. The 1200 nits of peak brightness in any oled display regardless of the size is outstanding. I just throw on my HERUS or I might pick up a dragon fly red if anyone interested in trading their Red for a shozy alien gold pm me

Hey, I'm trying to follow all of you guys and your conversation about the Sprint and T-Mobile phones having a possible issue. Can you guys explain to me what the problem is again? Does the ESS DAC/Amp work properly and change to accommodate high impedance phones properly just like the other variants? Or does it just not have a proper display of what mode it is in?

I'm looking at Sprint and both the V30+ and V20...anybody anybody know if the Sprint V20 also has this issue? I'm leaning towards the V20 and would really like to know if it's good to go like all the other versions or if there's an issue to be aware of such as what you guys have noticed.

Thanks, please write back somebody, haha...Thanks.
 
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Nov 20, 2017 at 8:17 PM Post #1,339 of 6,140
Hey, I'm trying to follow all of you guys and your conversation about the Sprint and T-Mobile phones having a possible issue. Can you guys explain to me what the problem is again? Does the ESS DAC/Amp work properly and change to accommodate high impedance phones properly just like the other variants? Or does it just not have a proper display of what mode it is in?

I'm looking at Sprint and both the V30+ and V20...anybody anybody know if the Sprint V20 also has this issue? I'm leaning towards the V20 and would really like to know if it's good to go like all the other versions or if there's an issue to be aware of such as what you guys have noticed.

Thanks, please write back somebody, haha...Thanks.

Based on my T-mobile version of the V30, T-mobile omitted the indication of what type of headphones are plugged in...Normal, AUX or High Impedance 50 - 600ohms.
The Quad Hifi DAC / Amp is functioning correctly as designed.

I've owned both the V10 and V20 which this function was available and as far as audio functionality, there is no difference.
 
Nov 20, 2017 at 11:32 PM Post #1,340 of 6,140
Unfortunately, 44/16 files are up-sampled both via USB-out and via the headphone-output when using the native LG music app. To put things in perspective though - I'm not sure it's worth losing sleep over. This is a first world problem. In most tracks it's difficult to hear the artifacts this up-sampling creates. With higher-impedance headphones (which need a moderate-to-high volume setting) and compressed dynamic range tracks, you'll likely never hear any issues, and it'll still sound great.

Neutron is the only app I'm aware of so far that doesn't up-sample 44 kHz files. I just tested the free version of BlackPlayer and it also up-samples 44/16 FLAC. I'm afraid I wasn't motivated enough to test the paid version, but I'd bet that $2.99 that it up-samples these files too.

Thank you for testing BlackPlayer.

Do you know the reason behind up-sampling? Can one expect that other players (than Neutron) will also have the option to disable up-sampling?
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 12:44 AM Post #1,341 of 6,140
Do you know the reason behind up-sampling?

I've looked at this from all angles and there's only one possible explanation I can see - oversight on the part of LG. It would have been trivial and cost them nothing to have avoided it.

Can one expect that other players (than Neutron) will also have the option to disable up-sampling?

Yes :) I know of at least two developers of other third party apps who are working to fix this.
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 1:38 AM Post #1,342 of 6,140
So really weird thing started happening yesterday, or maybe it's been happening all this time but only now I notice ever since I started using the app LG HiFi Status to determine which mode I'm in when listening to music. LG HiFi Status will sometimes read my low impendance earphones as Aux and will revert back to low impendance mode when unplug and replug my earphones and seems to happen randomly again when I unplug and replug for any reason or if my device is idle without use for some time, this doesn't seem like its cosmetic because I do notice when the app is reading my earphones in aux mode the volume is higher than normal with more bass. However, my higher impendance headphones are always are read correctly and perform as they should. Is this a bug within the app itself or within the OS or a hardware issue?

Mine does this too, not sure if it's the cable or not. Don't have a different one to test unfortunately.
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 2:45 AM Post #1,343 of 6,140
Don't believe it's a huge upgrade, but the v30 has a tad bit more sparkle and clarity imho. Also, the v30 is ridiculously (in a good way) black in the background. no noise. However, I'm in no rush to spend 800+. I will wait until the price comes down.
Thanks, confirmed what I suspected. I'm happy to wait, but just thought i'd see what others had to say.
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 3:38 AM Post #1,344 of 6,140
Mine does this too, not sure if it's the cable or not. Don't have a different one to test unfortunately.

I would suspect more on hardware...headphone jack or headphone's head might be causing a correct connection issue sometimes.
At least it doesn't effect it in reverse and reads the headphones in lower impedance instead!

I've tried several headphones...normal, with cable in AUX mode and 250ohm impedance and they all work correctly on mine.

Try cleaning the headphones 3.5mm head and see if that helps correct the problem.
This was an issue with the B&O headphones that LG offered as a promo for the V20...had some sort of coating on them initially and later wore off and the intermittent issue was resolved.
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 8:42 AM Post #1,345 of 6,140
Based on my T-mobile version of the V30, T-mobile omitted the indication of what type of headphones are plugged in...Normal, AUX or High Impedance 50 - 600ohms.
The Quad Hifi DAC / Amp is functioning correctly as designed.

I've owned both the V10 and V20 which this function was available and as far as audio functionality, there is no difference.
Hey thanks! That's a really weird/overly picky thing to actually do on their part. I mean, that's the type of thing that you'd have to go far out of your way to even think of. If I had to guess, I think they may have been afraid that the average consumer would have been confused by it. That's just pointless though.

But yeah, I think I'm going to stick with the V20 for now anyway and consider a V30/V40 down the road.
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 3:21 PM Post #1,347 of 6,140
Tired of waiting for the unlocked version to arrive and what percent "completeness" it will be--judging by LGs track record. Thinking of getting Korean version because A) B&O tuning & headphones, B) confirmed 2TB microSD slot, and C) no monkeying with the DAC's features(!). Is anyone using one in the States using one (esp on ATT network)? Is there anything missing like LTE, or more importantly the ability to load Google Play Store?
 
Nov 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM Post #1,350 of 6,140
Upto 2TB is supported, but no one makes them as far as I know, 400GB is the biggest I have seen, made by ScanDisk if I remember rightly.

I heard somewhere the carrier versions were only 256GB but who knows with LG marketing as lax as it is. How 'bout their latest ambiguous promo? Um...WHAT is included and HOW much rebate? If i get a $200 pair of headphones do i get the same rebate as a $2500 refrigerator?

Anyway, international versions bring their own issues for sure--so hoping someone is successfully using one here :)
 

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