[alota]

I found a way, how to trigger AUX mode without adapter. I am soooo happy.
If I insert headphone jack slowly, until hi-fi icon from LG turns on, than wait for a second and slowly continue, AUX icon from LG turns on.

I'll try my saviour

 

[waveSounds]

I've noticed something similar before. Although every time I've tried, purposely, to recreate it it doesn't work. Only when I'm not expecting it, and not prepared for the volume increase...

 

[Taz777]

I anyone else aware that the Tidal apps on both Android and iOS have now been updated to do MQA? I've just updated the Tidal app on my iPhone 7 so will be doing some listening tests of Masters tracks to compare against the LG V30. Of course the V30 has hardware MQA decoding, whereas the iPhone/iPad will do this in software so the V30 should preserve battery life better.

 

[Dannemand]

I anyone else aware that the Tidal apps on both Android and iOS have now been updated to do MQA? I've just updated the Tidal app on my iPhone 7 so will be doing some listening tests of Masters tracks to compare against the LG V30. Of course the V30 has hardware MQA decoding, whereas the iPhone/iPad will do this in software so the V30 should preserve battery life better.

I thought the Android Tidal app had done software MQA for awhile, and it's only the iPhone app that was just updated.

In any case does it only perform 1st unfold (2x) whereas V30 performs full 1st and 2nd unfold (4x) in hardware. So it is both more battery friendly, and also adds a bit more resolution, even if it's probably not audible to most.

 

[Taz777]

@Dannemand Yes, I think you're right. The Android app has been doing MQA for a couple of months now. The iOS app was updated only a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the iOS app levels of unfolding. Tidal and MQA Music are pushing this app update a lot and are claiming Master quality - in theory that should be 4x, right? I don't know how to verify this. If there was a way to output the decoded bitstream to a DAC as PCM, perhaps via a CCK cable to my D50, then I could see the bitrate.

 

[csglinux]

@Dannemand Yes, I think you're right. The Android app has been doing MQA for a couple of months now. The iOS app was updated only a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the iOS app levels of unfolding. Tidal and MQA Music are pushing this app update a lot and are claiming Master quality - in theory that should be 4x, right? I don't know how to verify this. If there was a way to output the decoded bitstream to a DAC as PCM, perhaps via a CCK cable to my D50, then I could see the bitrate.

If I were an iPhone owner, I'd be deeply suspicious of all this. Apple's dongle doesn't support anything above 48 kHz, so I'm not sure what benefits you'd be getting from MQA playback via an iPhone.

 

[Dannemand]

@Dannemand Yes, I think you're right. The Android app has been doing MQA for a couple of months now. The iOS app was updated only a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the iOS app levels of unfolding. Tidal and MQA Music are pushing this app update a lot and are claiming Master quality - in theory that should be 4x, right? I don't know how to verify this. If there was a way to output the decoded bitstream to a DAC as PCM, perhaps via a CCK cable to my D50, then I could see the bitrate.

UAPP's developer was only ever allowed by Meridian/Stuart/MQA to do 1st unfold (2x) in software, which I understand is also the case with the Android Tidal app. So my guess is the same is true with the iOS app as well.

Even with UAPP on V30, we don't know for sure what the resulting sample rate is (bitrate being something else). UAPP displays it's estimated sample rate based on metadata and sample rate of the MQA file (see screenshot below). But it has no way of verifying it, as the hardware MQA unfolding & rendering is a black box. Meridian/Stuart/MQA are convinced they discovered the Holy Grail, so they're holding their cards close to their vest. Of course by outputting from Tidal app to a USB DAC with full MQA you will be able to verify it.



When UAPP released its MQA decoder, I posted how we might hope it was a sign that Meridian/Stuart/MQA are waking up to the fact that they DON'T own the world, and they have to allow licensing on broader and less onerous terms if they want MQA to become more widespread. I suppose releasing full 4x software decoding on iOS would be exactly how such a scenario might play out. Not that I think it is likely, I am just continuing that train of thought...

 

[Dannemand]

Apple's dongle doesn't support anything above 48 kHz, so I'm not sure what benefits you'd be getting from MQA playback via an iPhone.

Wow, I didn't know that! You'd still get the benefit of 24-bit, although admittedly some of those are lost to MQA's origami.

I guess it is theoretically possible that MQA could have come up with code (software) that fully 4x unfolds, including higher bit-depth and precision improvements (time domain), then renders that in downsampled 44/48kHz form. Again, iPhone and Tidal would be the ideal (hugely popular) platform on which to release such a thing. And again, I am utterly speculating here, NOT saying I think this is likely. There wouldn't have to be any audible benefits, of course, as long as it is marketable as a new "feature" named with a simple acronym

 

[Taz777]

The 48kHz limit is due to the Lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack dongle containing the DAC chip, I believe.

 

[archy121]

If I were an iPhone owner, I'd be deeply suspicious of all this. Apple's dongle doesn't support anything above 48 kHz, so I'm not sure what benefits you'd be getting from MQA playback via an iPhone.

Just came across article that claims the iPhone headphone is 24/192 capable DAC ?!

I have been under the impression from others that it was limited to 24/48. Confused now.
Going to try out Master tracks later and see how it sounds.

The answer comes easy - it is indeed compatible, because it features a Cirrus Logic CS42L42 chip, a 24-bit codec that supports 24-bit audio up to 192kHZ with low power consumption, combined with an integrated headphone amplifier that boasts an output of 2×35mW at 30Ω. You can even get a kit from Cirrus Logic, a rapid development platform for Lightning® connected digital headsets, and part of the MFi programme (Made for iPhone/iPod/iPad).

https://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/info/Hi-Res-Guide/Bancs-d-essai/We-ve-tried-it-the-Apple-Lightning178666

 

[csglinux]

Just came across article that claims the iPhone headphone is 24/192 capable DAC ?!

https://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/info/Hi-Res-Guide/Bancs-d-essai/We-ve-tried-it-the-Apple-Lightning178666

Thanks @archy121 - reading that was a lot of fun! And it certainly conclusively puts to rest any doubts that Apple's MFi terms and conditions limit sample rates to 48 kHz. Here is the definitive proof...

To satisfy ourselves fully, we listened to the start of the First Movement of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 5 by the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, as we know that the Hi-Res version (24-bit/96kHZ) offers a more dynamic sound than the 16-bit version at 44.1kHZ.

Effectively, the difference in dynamics is clearly perceptible, which is evidence that Qobuz Hi-Res digital audio files are decoded by Apple's Lightning to headphone jack adaptor.

Who can argue with evidence like that?

P.S. Measurements don't support this finding:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/measurements-apples-lightning-to-35mm.html?m=1

P.P.S. More info here: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3022

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Thanks @archy121 - reading that was a lot of fun! And it certainly conclusively puts to rest any doubts that Apple's MFi terms and conditions limit sample rates to 48 kHz. Here is the definitive proof...



Who can argue with evidence like that?

P.S. Measurements don't support this finding:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/measurements-apples-lightning-to-35mm.html?m=1

P.P.S. More info here: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3022

That’s sad because they have quite in-depth gear reviews over at Qobuz - they systematically open the DACs and amps sent to them for instance, even when they’re not supposed to at all, and fine-comb the innards to determine what hardware is used. And they post mostly positive reviews but sometimes they are critical, even of high-end gear. So they’re not shills I think.

This sadly seems like an instance where business interests came first and they jumped on a subjective reinforcement of what would be convenient to them instead of facing the facts your links point out. Of course it's easier to sell higher-tier subscriptions to people if they think they can enjoy the benefits on a ubiquitous $12 dongle.

 

[csglinux]

I reached out to Tidal for some clarification and they told me that MQA is indeed now supported on iOS - when you attach an external DAC that supports MQA. So their marketing slogan: "Listen to master-quality audio on all iOS devices", should actually say: "Listen to master-quality audio on all iOS devices with an MQA-compatible external DAC attached." I probably won't win any prizes for catchy, sales-enhancing marketing slogans for that though

One small anecdote (which carries no more weight than Qobuz's listening tests)... I once did a (non-blind) A/B comparison test of some HDtracks and Dr. Chesky samplers with an audio buddy of mine, switching between redbook and hi-res FLAC and seeing if he could hear the improvement in the hi-res tracks. He could. Consistently. However, I'd played a little trick on him and when playing 44/16, I told him it was hi-res; when playing 96/24 or 192/24, I told him it was just plain-old CD quality. In each case, he was easily able to hear the dramatic improvement of the "hi-res" files.

Placebo is a powerful thing and I'm sure 99% of Apple dongle users are going to be delighted with the new Tidal update.

 

[archy121]

Hopefully as streaming HiRes/MQA audio becomes more readily available, Apple might finally pull finger out of their ears and provide an updated HiRes headphone adapter.

“the inconvenient truth about MQA on iOS is that Apple’s refusal to embrace hi-res audio means iPhone users can only “Stream Tidal Masters everywhere” with third-party hardware intervention.”


https://darko.audio/2019/03/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mqa-on-ios/

 

[VI001101106]

I reached out to Tidal for some clarification and they told me that MQA is indeed now supported on iOS - when you attach an external DAC that supports MQA. So their marketing slogan: "Listen to master-quality audio on all iOS devices", should actually say: "Listen to master-quality audio on all iOS devices with an MQA-compatible external DAC attached." I probably won't win any prizes for catchy, sales-enhancing marketing slogans for that though

One small anecdote (which carries no more weight than Qobuz's listening tests)... I once did a (non-blind) A/B comparison test of some HDtracks and Dr. Chesky samplers with an audio buddy of mine, switching between redbook and hi-res FLAC and seeing if he could hear the improvement in the hi-res tracks. He could. Consistently. However, I'd played a little trick on him and when playing 44/16, I told him it was hi-res; when playing 96/24 or 192/24, I told him it was just plain-old CD quality. In each case, he was easily able to hear the dramatic improvement of the "hi-res" files.

Placebo is a powerful thing and I'm sure 99% of Apple dongle users are going to be delighted with the new Tidal update.

Sooo are MQA tracks going to read "MASTER" quality in the now-playing screen if just wired or BT headphones are connected? Cos then that'd be a lie...

Nevermind. I just read the other article.