[manaox2]

I had near a $4K portable rig at one time. And I agree with the Op. He recommended that people ditch the portable amp in favor of better phones and a more compact setup. He recommended just an iPod and UE11 which was the best at the time. I eventually went that route after four or so portable amps and completely agree.

Things have changed a bit. With the ALO Rx or Pico Slim, I wouldn't have any problem carrying it with me and that makes it tempting. The LISA III and HD650 is a bit extreme. Most portable amps at the time were not very pocketable and those that were were not a huge improvement. Most portable phones don't require too much of an amplification. If your portable phones aren't in the four digits, don't spend more on an amp then your source or phones. Don't spend $200 on a 4 inch simple cable. It definitely made sense at the time of its writing and still can ring true today with most rigs. I'm still certain that a JH13 with just an iPod variation or even Sansa clip would murder most rigs, even more expensive rigs you could make. It helps to put things in perspective, and saying that the amps are clipping is a bit of an overstatement (digital source clipping is fairly obvious).

 

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif GreenLeo, I think the OPs main objection (from memory) was the fanaticism with which many try to duplicate the quality of a good home rig by buying seemingly endless gear. I am extremely wary of the portable amp - not because I doubt the capabilities of something like the RSA or iBasso portables, but because I dont want to be carrying that all that kit around with me. I do think there is a future in an office setup like a netbook connected to a good DAC/amp, but again you have to ask yourself when you are simply overcapitalising in order to get something which *might* be better than one of the top shelf DAPs. I applaud the HiFiMan, but I'm not sure how realistic it is in production terms. End of the day, we all decide how we are going to spend our money, and I appreciate that many love the fact that their entire rig fits in a small carrycase : for that matter, I could pack my laptop and the Topaz in a backpack and be listening to it in a hotel room in Singapore this time tomorrow night - just not sure that the reward would justify the effort.

Hi estreeter,

Thanks for the reply. Have left this thread for a long time and didn't realize of your reply.

No, I never have that fanaticism and would not purchase endless gears. Just want to share my idea of the other dimensions of using the portable apart from the absolute SQ dimension only. Also even if people are using home speaker system, the phenomenon of purchasing endless gears in order to replicate the sound stage of a concert, ... etc still exists. If this is main objection of the OP, I can't see how leaving portable fi may solve the problem.

By the way the HiFiMan 801 is really worth a try. Cheers.

 

[5aces]

A thread that has a reasonable idiom,"cool your horses."

Someone is to wait for a moment.

It is usually followed up with an explanation to demonstrate why they should wait.

"You haven't thought about this yet."

A ring of truth and a good read on here.

Thanks,from someone who was on the brink of going overboard...

 

[dwonk]

It was definitely a good read and something to keep in mind for those of us that have a tendency to obsess over hobbies. I have actually been lurking for quite a while on Head-Fi and just recently bought a D10 (after craigslisting my home stereo). In fact, this is my first post in over two years. My reasons for going for 'portablity' has nothing to do with lugging around a brick worth of gear on the Yamanote Line but to scale my posessions down to a managable size. I personally think the portable market has turned a corner with the advent of the Hifiman and D10. I chose the latter due to costs and my obsession with mods (op-amp rolling).

 

[]eep]

I enjoyed reading the OP very much.

Why tote around a brick? Why pay exorbitant prices for way to large profit margins on that brick wrapped in marketing jargon when you can have 90% of the performance at a reasonable price.

I'm not buying the hyperbole anymore. I just bought a mobile phone, 8 GB in it, AAC encoded incl equalization, E5+RE0 and it's really enjoyable and true hifi. The cost is €12.50 monthly for the phone + €100.
I can take a whole library in cd's, books, movies and photo's with me in the size of a candybar and a hockey puck (IEM case). And it lasts me a week without a charge.

Does that mean I'm in or out portable hifi? Call it what you want, I'm really happy with it.

 

[estreeter]

Jeep, there is a lot of snobbishness in hi-fi, but I doubt that most Head-Fiers would agree that your mobile phone represents 'true hi-fi'. Most of us are enjoying mid-fi, at best : as much as I love my X and my phones, I dont try to tell myself that it is 'hi-fidelity'. I agree that spending 10 times as much wouldnt guarantee me ten times the return in outright sound quality, but I've heard a few serious speaker rigs that would have many on Head-Fi wetting their pants. In my case, that didnt happen until I saw the sticker price on each of the components.

 

[Maxvla]

Amazing that this thread is still quite active...

A year later I'm still 100% behind the OP. I've just read a dozen pages or so past where I stopped reading previously and astounded by the lengths people will go to justify carrying bricks around with them.

A point I'd like to make (which may have been posted in this thread previously).. People that are speaker-philes hate on headphone-philes due to improper soundstaging (mostly) which is absolutely true. The IEM, on the other hand, is an order of magnitude worse still with regard to soundstage than even standard headphones. You are isolated from the acoustics around you (unlike with open full size cans) which, though near silent at home, are still there and reinforce soundstage. IEMs have a literal soundstage of about 1 centimeter. There's only so many things you can do with 1 cm and producing a soundstage that's anywhere near full size headphones much less speakers is not one of them.

1. Compromised soundstage - check (ironically a fixed #1 accentuates #2)
2. Compromised isolation - check (ironically a fixed #2 accentuates #1)

These 2 problems alone begs the question the OP is trying to get everyone to see. Portable music is destined to cycle between #1 and #2 forever. This means portable music will NEVER be hi-fi (high end, whatever you want to call it).

The answer is to see portable music for what it is, a filler for silence, not something you devote your entire attention to. You are working, traveling, doing research at the library, not trying to decide if Menuhin just did an up bow or down bow to open the 3rd variation in some concerto.

Muzak sucks, but it serves it's purpose, filling silence. Take from this that anything is better than silence, but spending for more than a simple player and portable headphones when you aren't even paying attention to it is WASTEFUL.

 

[jjsoviet]

Well, I can certainly agree that any portable setup will never be Hi-Fi; it's reserved for home audio and high-end components. However, people still invest in upgrading their portable setups for them to enjoy music, as close to what they perceive as "Hi-Fi" as possible. Even the most intricate setups are mid-fi at best, but that may be enough for people to enjoy and spend their resources on.

Just my two cents.

 

[A_Dying_Wren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif IEMs have a literal soundstage of about 1 centimeter. There's only so many things you can do with 1 cm and producing a soundstage that's anywhere near full size headphones much less speakers is not one of them. 1. Compromised soundstage - check (ironically a fixed #1 accentuates #2) 2. Compromised isolation - check (ironically a fixed #2 accentuates #1) These 2 problems alone begs the question the OP is trying to get everyone to see. Portable music is destined to cycle between #1 and #2 forever. This means portable music will NEVER be hi-fi (high end, whatever you want to call it). The answer is to see portable music for what it is, a filler for silence, not something you devote your entire attention to. You are working, traveling, doing research at the library, not trying to decide if Menuhin just did an up bow or down bow to open the 3rd variation in some concerto. Muzak sucks, but it serves it's purpose, filling silence. Take from this that anything is better than silence, but spending for more than a simple player and portable headphones when you aren't even paying attention to it is WASTEFUL.

You do get some really good combinations of soundstage and isolation. One which I shall fondly remember is the combination of IE8s and complys. Pretty darn good isolation and a wide soundstage comparable to some headphones supposedly.

Not all hi-fi is about soundstage and some IEMs do positioning and detail very well but I probably would concur that most set-ups are mid-fi at best but I think the JH13s give headphones a good run for their money. Also depends how you define hi-fi. If listening to the real thing in concert is hi-fi then the best B52/HD800 rigs may be mid-fi at best .

And idk... i find most cheaper earphones give me fatigue after a while and I guess so do others. That definition of "cheaper" would of course differ.

 

[markh78]

Everyone have so many different requirements when it comes to listening to music, it's just so silly to think that just because portables didn't fit for you, it wouldn't fit anyone else.

 

[jjsoviet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markh78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everyone have so many different requirements when it comes to listening to music, it's just so silly to think that just because portables didn't fit for you, it wouldn't fit anyone else.

QFT

Your ears are not ours, simple as that. Preferences, people. Preferences.

 

[estreeter]

We need to remind ourselves that, for many traditional audio nuts, the idea of basing a rig around *any* pair of headphones would seem bizarre. This thread could just as easily have been titled 'Leaving Head-Fi : its just too silly' ......

 

[janchadley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif We need to remind ourselves that, for many traditional audio nuts, the idea of basing a rig around *any* pair of headphones would seem bizarre. This thread could just as easily have been titled 'Leaving Head-Fi : its just too silly' ......

Well said.

Im truly amazed at this thread. Its the kind of arguement I would expect from my co-workers.

First, let me say, any label such as High Fi or Mid Fi or whatever is purely subjective. There is no need to label or quantify it. The quality of music reproduction is complex and varies dramatically between the least advanced and most advanced electronics. There is no magical piont where the meter starts to blink and a red light comes on with a voice saying, "Warning, you have now crossed the hifi threshold, please prepare to wet your pants". There is, however, certain expectations audiophiles have from their sound without which would easily disqualify equiment from being called, "hifi". And good portable audio can best MOST of those qualifiers.

IMHO, if you are a true audiophile, you love two things...Music and sound (electronics being either the gateway drug or byproduct for the above). And by love it, I mean LOVE it. F/E, I would suggest that a true audiophile may fom time to time find themselves listening to a song completely through, even though they didn't care for the song itself because the recording really accentuated the sound quality of their rig via the quality of the signal, instrumentation and/or whatever of that particular recording.

Point being, it sounds oh so good. And, as a result, it makes you feel oh so good. What I have found is this, an IPOD+buds or Target brand headphones can sound pretty decent. Enough to enjoy the music. However, slap a brick on some cans and, in my personal experience, the pure enjoyment goes up big time. There are portable amps out there that in combination with the right headphones that simply sound amazing. Add 4 hours a day of commuting, traveling or whatever, and you just added 4 hours a day of extra enjoyment to your life! Thats not worth a grand or two?

Here's where the personal preference comes in, is the increased amount of goose bumps you get worth the extra money you spend and the extra inconvenience you experience carrying around a brick? For me, Hell yes.

What confuses me is that a true audiophile would spend the bucks on a home unit because the standard Kenwood reciever doesn't fit the bill, so much so that they spend thousands. But, then they think portable audio equipment is silly even though the difference in sound quality is equally as dramatic, maybe more so, as a good and bad home audio.

BTW, the brick is not that big a deal. I have even found it managable to mountain bike with it on.

What am I missing here? Maybe its what YOU are missing!

 

[Blasto_Brandino]

I'm combining a pair of HD800's with a Lisa III XP with a walkman X1061 w/ a $30 lineout (I found a Case Logic brand camera bag that works quite well for this). This is probably as close to portable HIFI as I'll get, and I'm happy with that (that and I just dumped >$2,000 on a portable/transportable rig WHY?!?!) And when the Portacode comes out, I'm going to buy one of them, and trudge it around (I'm TOTALLY going to look like a circa 70's reporter dragging a tape recorder sized amp around)
WHY do I do this? because it is the only thing that will get me away from my speakers, and some social life, is better than no social life at all.

 

[Sonic 748i]

Quote:

I'm combining a pair of HD800's with a Lisa III XP with a walkman X1061 w/ a lineout (I found a Case Logic brand camera bag that works quite well for this). This is probably as close to portable HIFI as I'll get, and I'm happy with that (that and I just dumped >$2,000 on a portable/transportable rig WHY?!?!) And when the Portacode comes out, I'm going to buy one of them, and trudge it around (I'm TOTALLY going to look like a circa 70's reporter dragging a tape recorder sized amp around)
WHY do I do this? because it is the only thing that will get me away from my speakers, and some social life, is better than no social life at all.

My portable setup is closer.