[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Dude, you have got to stop talking about gear you've never heard. Measurements will only take you so far.
And with that, you'd be giving out poor advice. Leave it to those who have heard both pair.

Throw in the fact that his assessments of said graphs and their ability to accurately and precisely measure what's going on are also "off". 

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
Yeah, I understand your point. But LCD-2 has always been 1000 dollars, right? LCD-3 always 2000 dollars. LCD-4 is not gonna be 2000 dollars also if they keep the tradition up... But sure, LCD-4 (if still an open can - I have read they are about to release a closed back HP) would be nice for 2 grand. But what would LCD-3 then cost?

 
I am not sure here... Do you really think Audeze are not going to change their pricing in the future? Maybe not in a short term...
 
I think that if you have the money, you should go for LCD-3 (buy the newest possible). I am more concerned about the price than about their performance. Also, I have to stress that I use my pair with TB Isone so I do need much soundstage... LCD-2 rev2 have rather weaker soundstage - but still I do find it very nice and natural.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Throw in the fact that his assessments of said graphs are also "off". 

 
They are wrong in your opinion... I accept that.
 
I have tried to help and said anything I wanted... I am leaving this discussion now. I hope he is going to be satisfied enough with whatever choice.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
They are wrong in your opinion... I accept that.
 
I have tried to help and said anything I wanted... I am leaving this discussion now. I hope he is going to be satisfied enough with whatever choice.

Both are great options, the LCD-2 or LCD-3. 

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
I can talk on whatever I want... I have claimed that I have never heard LCD-3 as you can see.
 
I have been asked to say my opinion and that's what I did. Feel free to report my post if you want...

So stop doing it. See the posting GUIDELINES
 
I'm not here to get you in trouble. Your opinion is not meaningful considering you've not had personal experience with the headphone.

 

[Docks]

Quote:

 
Well, I have discussed my issues with LCD-3 a lot here (and many people do not like that or tend to disagree). So I will try to be as objective as possible.
 
1) I do not find the treble of LCD-2 rev2 to be any harsh or overemphasised (and you can call me extremely sensitive to treble). I do find it extremely natural and prefer it even for rock and metal over anything else I have heard so far. There is no sense of glare with vocals (it is possible you will hear the glare a bit with LCD-3 because of more emphasis on the region of 1 - 2 khz than ideal). LCD-2 rev2 do not have that emphasis.
 
The treble is going to be a bit more pronounced with LCD-3, it should be the most bright Audez'e's pair (which can be desired as the majority of headphones today are overtrebled). It should have a bit more air but overally, I do not find LCD-3 to be more neutral from the graphs. But MacedonianHero do find them to be more neutral.
 
It's of course very subjective but I do like the treble of LCD-2 rev2 as it is because when I add a bit of airiness to its sound via EQing (especially with brainworx digital v2 as it adds a bit of air natively), it does not sound better to me. There is a bit more air then but I prefer the feel of transparency, balance and compactness without it. I can hear the emphasis around 10khz to be a bit unpleasant to my ears rarely... This area is even more emphasised with LCD-3. And is going to be even more with HE-500.
 
2) Their technical measurements are simply not good enough in comparison with LCD-2 rev2... MacedonianHero seem to disagree with me but if you have a look at square waves, impulse response or %THD+noise, LCD-3 (even rev2 version) do not justify their price. HD800 are WAY better for 1500USD... But those Senns do not have the Audez'es sound signature.
 
3) I do not find LCD-3 to be more neutral than LCD-2 rev2 from their graphs as I said... But again, there are different opinions about it here.
 
4) LCD-3 could be too much revealing for modern genres (not top-quality recordings)...
 
Please do not take this as a sure thing... Just my opinion. I haven't heard LCD-3. But honestly, if I had the money, I would rather spend them on LCD-2 rev2 (angled connectors) and the most suitable amp/DAC and wait until Audez'e will release LCD-4 or anything that is really going to be as good as 2000USD. Or you can try Stax... But they are most probably not going to offer the bass quality of Audezes.

Nice to see another objective person here, I agree that the LCD3s are a bit overrated and definatly overpriced.

 

[paradoxper]

The LCD-3 are not worth the price tag (diminished returns), but that applies to just about every headphone out there.
 
Both are great as Macedonian said. If you've got the budget I say go for the LCD-3.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

So stop doing it. See the posting GUIDELINES
 
I'm not here to get you in trouble. Your opinion is not meaningful considering you've not have personal experience with the headphone.

 
You cannot get me into the trouble... I wanted to be banned from this site myself. I am here only because of PMs I've got and because of Sell/trade section.
 
My posts are as meaningful as anyone is going to assess them...

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Nice to see another objective person here, I agree that the LCD3s are a bit overrated and definatly overpriced.

 
I even hesitated with option to hear them to "let my posts be more meaningful". But I realised that I would only disagree with my philosophy that if anything is better, it has to be objectively visible... I do not see LCD-3 to look or measure neither 2x, nor 1.5x better than LCD-2 rev2. And I see some undesirable FR sections with them to my liking. That's all.
 
Still, LCD-3 vs HE-500 is no contest...
 
LCD-2 rev2 vs HE-500 is more difficult to assess... But still, I would take LCD-2 rev2 anytime for modern genres.

 

[SgtE]

I'm just thinking out loud here but I think a product with a premium price can be hard to value in terms of price/performance.
 
It's easier to put a label on something that is pushing its price point... Like perhaps HE-500?
 
In the top segment of speakers/headphones (imo) you pay for a refined house sound, more or less (but often more).
 
Music and sound is a matter of preference and hence, top of the line Dali speakers do not sound like top of the line Audio Physic speakers etc etc.
 
What I found in my search for the perfect speaker, was, that there is no such thing (unless you have a gazillion dollars, maybe).
 
Someone emphasize bass, another treble, a third coherence and a forth dynamics... You get the picture....
 
 
So, in that top segment, finding the sound that please you the most is what should matter.
 
To me, I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to be amazed by the speaker/headphone but rather prefer it to be natural (not neccecarily neutral). That would mean long-term to me. And thats a sound that adjust to different genres.
 
Bright headphones are to me very unnatural. I have never been to a live concert that emphasize treble like my DT-990 (I got them REALLY cheap but cant stand them). I want everything to be there, but coherent. One day I should notice this, another day that and so on if you get me...
 
If I get a phone that almost get me to that position for a price of 1k$, a phone that acctually get me there for 2k$, is worth it to me. Firstly soundwise but also not having to think about that thing you also would like them to do.
 
Now, of course, this is just thinking out loud but from what I have read, the LCD-3 could be it...
 
*edit* All this reading got me realize, that this globalized world is a rather big hifi-world.... I can watch american TV in Sweden but have to travel thousands of kilometres just to listen to a headphone...

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

I'm just thinking out loud here but I think a product with a premium price can be hard to value in terms of price/performance.
 
It's easier to put a label on something that is pushing its price point... Like perhaps HE-500?
 
In the top segment of speakers/headphones (imo) you pay for a refined house sound, more or less (but often more).
 
Music and sound is a matter of preference and hence, top of the line Dali speakers do not sound like top of the line Audio Physic speakers etc etc.
 
What I found in my search for the perfect speaker, was, that there is no such thing (unless you have a gazillion dollars, maybe).
 
Someone emphasize bass, another treble, a third coherence and a forth dynamics... You get the picture....
 
 
So, in that top segment, finding the sound that please you the most is what should matter.
 
To me, I have come to the conclusion that I don't want to be amazed by the speaker/headphone but rather prefer it to be natural (not neccecarily neutral). That would mean long-term to me. And thats a sound that adjust to different genres.
 
Bright headphones are to me very unnatural. I have never been to a live concert that emphasize treble like my DT-990 (I got them REALLY cheap but cant stand them). I want everything to be there, but coherent. One day I should notice this, another day that and so on if you get me...
 
If I get a phone that almost get me to that position for a price of 1k$, a phone that acctually get me there for 2k$, is worth it to me. Firstly soundwise but also not having to think about that thing you also would like them to do.
 
Now, of course, this is just thinking out loud but from what I have read, the LCD-3 could be it...
 
*edit* All this reading got me realize, that this globalized world is a rather big hifi-world.... I can watch american TV in Sweden but have to travel thousands of kilometres just to listen to a headphone...

 
If you really do not need to think about your money, grab LCD-3 (a new pair!) and/or Stax SR-009 (rather for top quality recordings I would say). As you said, LCD-3 are just a refinement of LCD-2 and are going to offer the most versatile performance. I would personally not buy LCD-3 even if I had the money but that's just because I do care very much about what I spend my bucks for.
 
If they were some LCD 1.5 phones that would offer the Audez'es sound along with good measurements and neutrality of LCD-2 rev2 for let's say 700USD new, I would take them over LCD-2 rev2 as well... I love my music more than my gear.

 

[vc1187]

Quote:

 
Yes, I know of the whole debate regarding OTL amps and low ohm HPs but I really like my La Figaro 339 and I do not want to get rid of it, nor do I want to purchase another to complement it. My GF would not approve
Thats why Im intrerested in your opinion regarding OTL and LCD-x.
I have also read that HE-500 and LF 339 match really well but I have also read that HE-500 is more of a jazz phone and I'm more into rock, pop, old school hip hop, electronica and acoustic rock. Sometimes also metal. The HE-500 seem not perfect for these genres..? I am also looking to have one go-to phone and not a dozen ones.
 
 
The thing is, I just sold my whole speaker setup since I couldn't really find the time to listen to it anymore due to two small children. For the money, I'm investing in a HP-rig instead (please, no comments that HP can never replace a speaker-system, i know but but). During the whole time frame I was in the "speaker-system-world", as opposed to the "headphone-world", I upgraded my speakers and amps etc many many times. I have had really expensive speakers and feel that I want a really, really good HP now so that I dont miss my speaker system too much. 
Since I live in Sweden though, it's rather impossible for me to audition lcd before hand. So Im thinking, if other OTL owners like LCD with OTL, I may take the chance... 
I was initially afraid that an OTL wont even work at all with LCD but clearly thats not the case. Its just that some people don't think the OTL sound and the laid back sound of the LCD don't match really well? Right?
Personally, I think I would like it, if the specifications are there to back up the match to work (if you know what I mean).
Btw, I also like to listen at low volume (if tht should rule the HE-500 out).
 
And im also gonna buy 5998 if I decide to go for lcd-3.
Do you think I should take a leap of faith? 

 
So I have owned the LCD-2 rev.1 and currently own the HE-500 along with the LF339.  To my ears, the LF339 did not have much synergy with the LCD-2, but work tremendously well with the HE-500.  I also own the V200, which worked very well with the LCD-2 and works well with the HE-500.  Best combination to my ears is the HE-500 and LF339 (With Tung Sol 5998 and RCA 5693 tubes).  It does every genre justice, and has an extremely deep, impactful bass.  There is no sense of harshness on the treble with this combination, if you may be concerned about that, and vocals are as beautiful as ever.  I will say that I prefer the HE-500 over the LCD-2 (I feel like the vocals on the LCD-2 are portrayed as somewhat far away), however my main issue with the LCD-2 was comfort (something you may want to consider).  Though they both have a strong clamping force, the HE-500s force is allocated around your ears, and the LCD-2s force is allocated closer to your cheekbones.  The pressure to the cheekbones is just too uncomfortable for me, but I can deal with and wear the HE-500 for a long time.
 
In essence, both are wonderful pairs of headphones, but if comfort is a biggy for you, I'd recommend going HE-500.  Also, with your setup (assuming you own the LF339), from one owner to another, trust me, the HE-500 is excellent with the setup I listed above 

 
Oh on a side note, while I spoke about the LCD-2 rev.1 (and have never heard the LCD-2 rev.2 or LCD-3) If pressure on your cheekbones is going to bother you, it's not going to change from rev 1 to rev 2 or LCD-3, as they're all designed to fit on your head the same way.  Can't really comment on synergy for the LF339 with the rev.2 or lcd-3, but my bets are that it will not synergize as well with the LF339 as it may with something like a V200.
Quote:

Totally NOT agreed. I think HE-500 is great with "rock, pop, old school hip hop, electronica and acoustic rock." -well - hip hop I don't do, but still. HE-500 is good with al genres, it's not a genre-dependent phone. 
 

Yep, very well spoken.

 

[SgtE]

Yes, me too, that's why I would probably choose the lcd-3 over the lcd-2, because I love music more than my gear.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
So I have owned the LCD-2 rev.1 and currently own the HE-500 along with the LF339.  To my ears, the LF339 did not have much synergy with the LCD-2, but work tremendously well with the LF339.  I also own the V200, which worked very well with the LCD-2 and works well with the HE-500.  Best combination to my ears is the HE-500 and LF339 (With Tung Sol 5998 and RCA 5693 tubes).  It does every genre justice, and has an extremely deep, impactful bass.  There is no sense of harshness on the treble with this combination, if you may be concerned about that, and vocals are as beautiful as ever.  I will say that I prefer the HE-500 over the LCD-2 (I feel like the vocals on the LCD-2 are portrayed as somewhat far away), however my main issue with the LCD-2 was comfort (something you may want to consider).  Though they both have a strong clamping force, the HE-500s force is allocated around your ears, and the LCD-2s force is allocated closer to your cheekbones.  The pressure to the cheekbones is just too uncomfortable for me, but I can deal with and wear the HE-500 for a long time.
 
In essence, both are wonderful pairs of headphones, but if comfort is a biggy for you, I'd recommend going HE-500.  Also, with your setup (assuming you own the LF339), from one owner to another, trust me, the HE-500 is excellent with the setup I listed above 

Yep, very well spoken.

 
I need to disagree here, at least based on my experience with rev2 version...
 
1) Rev2 version has revised pads and headband and I do find them comfortable enough for long listening sessions (I have had comfortable phones like D7000 or T50RP with FA-003 pads).
 
2) Rev2 have more apparent treble... I unfortunately cannot compare but I haven't seen anyone here to mention that rev2 version do have the completely same treble.
 
3) I do find both male and vocals to be absolutely great+present and as I do not hear any sense of glare with female parts (as I have heard with any other pair so far), I am extremely satisfied about LCD-2's performance here.
 
4) Rev2 has significantly improved measurements... They should be more detailed and accurate.
 
I still haven't heard HE-500 so I am lacking in this area... Their peak in treble around 7 - 10 khz worries me very much - this is the most critical area for people who are sensitive to ovetreble =/

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Yes, me too, that's why I would probably choose the lcd-3 over the lcd-2, because I love music more than my gear.

 
Haha, interesting interpretation! Still, I would rather spend 1000USD on a pair of headphones and another 1000USD on music than 2000USD on phones that are going to be at best 15% better