[kRed]

Very strange...
I am still puzzled by your findings but I guess that we all hear differently.
I think the EF400 as smooth and warm sounding, definitely warmer than the K9 PRO.
Are you using OS or NOS?

The Lyr+is a very versatile amp but you are going to break the fully balanced output of the EF400.

The EF400 has a smooth and warm sound as DAC in my case, it exhibits this aggressive boost in that upper register frequencies only from the hp out (either SE or balanced). As for now I don't have other amps to test this thing further, but it is clearly easily detectable.
Os or Nos seems to not make a huge difference in this case, I prefer OS as it sounds smoother in the highs in general.

What really makes me think there is something weird is that the EF400 as a DAC to the K9 Pro sounds definitely more similar to the K9 Pro as it sounds form its hp out. It definitely gives a similarly balanced and detailed presentation.

Anyway, the G111 is off I guess, it's the V202/222 vs the Lyr+!

 

[Ichos]

The EF400 has a smooth and warm sound as DAC in my case, it exhibits this aggressive boost in that upper register frequencies only from the hp out (either SE or balanced). As for now I don't have other amps to test this thing further, but it is clearly easily detectable.
Os or Nos seems to not make a huge difference in this case, I prefer OS as it sounds smoother in the highs in general.

What really makes me think there is something weird is that the EF400 as a DAC to the K9 Pro sounds definitely more similar to the K9 Pro as it sounds form its hp out. It definitely gives a similarly balanced and detailed presentation.

Anyway, the G111 is off I guess, it's the V202/222 vs the Lyr+!

I also prefer the OS with the EF400 although I am a great fan of true NOS DACs.
To tell you the truth I don't find the headphone output harsh or fatiguing but this doesn't tell much as long as you don't like it.
And to tell you the truth I haven't done much listening from the DAC out of the EF400.

All the amps mentioned are valid options but on a second thought I would gladly recommend the Schiit Vali, great sound for the price with some tube fan.

 

[kRed]

All the amps mentioned are valid options but on a second thought I would gladly recommend the Schiit Vali, great sound for the price with some tube fan.

Given this valuable suggestion, I'm leaning toward getting the Vali++ (if I can find one, as it seems out of stock) along with the G111 mk2.
It will be cheaper than the Lyr+ or the V202 and will give me more toys to experiment and better understand this world.

 

[Ichos]

Given this valuable suggestion, I'm leaning toward getting the Vali++ (if I can find one, as it seems out of stock) along with the G111 mk2.
It will be cheaper than the Lyr+ or the V202 and will give me more toys to experiment and better understand this world.

Good idea, two different sound signatures and approaches to music reproduction.

 

[kRed]

Good idea, two different sound signatures and approaches to music reproduction.

The G111 Mk2 is expected to be here in a couple days, I'll make some extensive testing:

- The difference between the EF400 and the K9 AKM as a DAC into the G111.
- The difference between the EF400 as DAC into the G111 vs the EF400 as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM as DAC into the G111 vs the K9 AKM as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM and the G111 as an amp being feeded by the EF400 as a DAC.

 

[Ichos]

The G111 Mk2 is expected to be here in a couple days, I'll make some extensive testing:

- The difference between the EF400 and the K9 AKM as a DAC into the G111.
- The difference between the EF400 as DAC into the G111 vs the EF400 as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM as DAC into the G111 vs the K9 AKM as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM and the G111 as an amp being feeded by the EF400 as a DAC.

Lots of jobs to be done, you are going to be a little busy for a while!

 

[ishmaelk]

The G111 Mk2 is expected to be here in a couple days, I'll make some extensive testing:

- The difference between the EF400 and the K9 AKM as a DAC into the G111.
- The difference between the EF400 as DAC into the G111 vs the EF400 as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM as DAC into the G111 vs the K9 AKM as an AIO.
- The difference between the K9 AKM and the G111 as an amp being feeded by the EF400 as a DAC.

Did you come round to do all that testing?

 

[kRed]

Did you come round to do all that testing?

Yeah, sort of!

I could not do one test in particular, or at least not in a way that would make me sure about the result. But let's go on.

First of all, i would like to do a very brief and simple comment on the G111 Mk 2: it's pretty good. It has plenty of power (i had to set the gain to -18 dB to use the potentiometer properly), it's clean and well controlled, it has a nice spacial presentation, it's has a nice timbre.

In my limited (both from a time and gear perspective) experience i found that the differences are either palpable and bold, or more like a suggestion or a feeling.

One example is the differences i hear with my Arya Stealth if I use the EF400 AIO or the K9 Pro AKM AIO with Opeth's Heir Apparent. The difference was so striking i just stopped using the Arya SE with the EF400 for many weeks, as the presentation of the EF400 AIO was not suitable for the wall-of-sound i was accustomed from the K9 presentation.

So, for the sake of this post let's say there are 2 categories of differences i would refer to: clear one and it feels like one.

1. The difference between the EF400 and the K9 AKM as a DAC into the G111.
   I could test this one pretty extensively, since the G111 let you swap between the two imputs with zero lag. I found that there was a clear difference between them: the EF400 was smoother, softer and definitely more mid-centered (in the sense that with volume matching the top end was less present and forward). I do like the both of them. I was not able to spot major differences in the spacial presentation or other more technical aspects like timbre, transients, etc. They both sound good and works well with the G111: one is more aggressive and more detailed than the other.
   
   
2. The difference between the EF400 as DAC into the G111 vs the EF400 as an AIO.
   I could also test this one extensively, and i can say the difference is bold and easily detectable. My EF400, which may have something wrong, has a very mid-to-uppermid bump when used as AIO which makes the upper register of vocalists (like thom yorke or jeff buckley), guitars, violins, etc, shouty. It's not a problem with stuff like the R70X, but with the Arya it's just not good. I have to turn the volume down or i get instant fatigue. The problem is not present with the G111. Also, i do feel like the bass is tighter.
   
   
3. The difference between the K9 AKM as DAC into the G111 vs the K9 AKM as an AIO.
   Since the K9 can't output both from the HP out and the line out, i could not test this without some breaks. Honestly i can't say if i would be able to identify them one from the other in a double blind test with breaks. I could probably identify them A/B without breaks since i know the k9 pretty well but... what's the point?
   I could pretty easily tell there was something different/off from the K9 to the EF400, and i don't think i can say the same for the G111. It's probably, in the I feel like territory, a bit more natural sounding and more organic. Probably the G111's beefier power delivery and design makes it more effortless and more stable with busy tracks. Probably.
   
   
4. The difference between the K9 AKM and the G111 as an amp being feeded by the EF400 as a DAC.
   Yeah, this one i could not test directly, and honestly it is pointless. The G111 and the K9 AMP sounds similarly in the sense they are clean, spacious, detailed and both have a nice, full and controlled bass.

One thing to notice is that the G111 Mk2 feels like it will last forever. It feels like a nice BMW from the golden era: robust, powerful, well made and well engineered.

P.S. The K9 was tested with mid gain in pre-out to have the volume matched with the output of the EF400 in OS (the gain settings has no impact on the fixed line out). The k9 was balanced, the EF400 was connected via an RCA cable. Both are from Cordial.

 

[LostnAmerica]

The RebelAmp and this G111 are two amps that I'm very eager to get my hands on. Glad to see more impressions emerging on this.

I have a few 600-ohm cans and I'd like a good solid-state amp to pair with them, this seems like the one. I also have to wonder how this would pair with the HE6se v2. Not the most powerful thing at 50 ohms according to the spec sheet, but raw WPC doesn't tell the whole story, considering so many people love the RebelAmp with the HE6.

"I also have to wonder how this would pair with the HE6se v2. Not the most powerful thing at 50 ohms according to the spec sheet, but raw WPC doesn't tell the whole story, considering so many people love the RebelAmp with the HE6." My question exactly! I hope this gets answered, I'm on the fence (not a high one ) of what to buy.

 

[someyoungguy]

I don’t suppose anyone here has had the chance to hear the G108 and G111 (mk1 or 2)?

I’m thinking about getting the G111 mk2, and it’s only a small step in price to the G108, but not much info out there about how it sounds.

The G108 looks interesting for having balanced out. But unlike the G111 which has a discrete amplification stage the G108 is based around four Texas Instruments/Burr Brown OPA511. People on head-fi often seem to favor discrete over op-amp stages, and G111 has marginally more power, but on the other hand G108 can do full balanced in/out.

If anyone has heard both I’d be curious as to any impressions on how they compare.

 

[ElMuchacho]

Great amp. I bought the G111 MKII based on your review. I am enjoying its performance and its ease of use with my Sundaras. I have yet to try my 1060C's or 6XX on it yet. My Ares II DAC is working as double duty for this headphone amp and my stereo. I'm curious what sonic differences other DACs would have with the G111.

 

[Angel III]

Great amp. I bought the G111 MKII based on your review. I am enjoying its performance and its ease of use with my Sundaras. I have yet to try my 1060C's or 6XX on it yet. My Ares II DAC is working as double duty for this headphone amp and my stereo. I'm curious what sonic differences other DACs would have with the G111.

I really liked the combination of G111 MKll and HD650. Set the PRE-GAIN well for maximum synergy between headphones and amplifier. Try it and keep us informed.

 

[ElMuchacho]

I really liked the combination of G111 MKll and HD650. Set the PRE-GAIN well for maximum synergy between headphones and amplifier. Try it and keep us informed.

Oh nice. What pregain worked for you with HD650? I haven't adjusted pregain on G111 yet.

 

[someyoungguy]

I don’t suppose anyone here has had the chance to hear the G108 and G111 (mk1 or 2)?

I’m thinking about getting the G111 mk2, and it’s only a small step in price to the G108, but not much info out there about how it sounds.

The G108 looks interesting for having balanced out. But unlike the G111 which has a discrete amplification stage the G108 is based around four Texas Instruments/Burr Brown OPA511. People on head-fi often seem to favor discrete over op-amp stages, and G111 has marginally more power, but on the other hand G108 can do full balanced in/out.

If anyone has heard both I’d be curious as to any impressions on how they compare.

To follow up my own question above:

I emailed Lake People to see what they had to say about the sound of these amps. Ended up getting a reply from Fried Reim himself! That was unexpected. I'm guessing he won't mind me passing on his comments.

He said that the G103-108 series "are 100% neutral in terms of THD figures under standard conditions - which can be a bit boring to listeners used to stuff which is generally a bit coloring – like hi-fi gear normally is", but put it that the G111 "is neutral too - but a step towards the warm side. Meaning that the very low harmonics are shaped so that even harmonics are most time a bit higher than the following uneven harmonics". And then went on to add that "this behavior is even more pronounced by the Violectric amps which are known for their smooth sound".

I actually currently have the V226 but find it is a bit too smooth for my personal preferences. I'm thinking perhaps the G111 mk2 might get my vote as it would be a step down in that smooth characteristic and still be pretty versatile - I used to have an Arcam rHead which has a similar form factor with single-ended and balanced inputs coupled with a single-ended output. That amp was pretty good, but lent itself to a slightly slower, fuller presentation that worked well with mid-paced and slower tracks, but didn't suit faster music as well in my experience. On the other hand, the G108 intrigues me since there's so little out there about it. I'll see if I can find somewhere to trial them, but even if there's a store that has them in stock here in Shanghai, travel times etc. sometimes mean it's easier just to blind purchase and get to know something in your own space.

 

[Angel III]

Oh nice. What pregain worked for you with HD650? I haven't adjusted pregain on G111 yet.

The HD650 is a headphone with a slightly warm character (beautiful). The G111 MKII is an open and neutral sounding amplifier, powerful bass with excellent sharpness, perfectly balanced mid and high frequencies. The amplifier's premium neutral makes for a perfect match with the HD650.