Tuneslover
Headphoneus Supremus
I forgot to mention it's already in high gain
(The can is the 300ohm HD600)
Hmm...I use HD650 and at 12 o'clock it's pretty darn loud. At 2:00 it's painful.
I'm at a loss, unless you really like your music very loud.
Lake People G109 / G103 thread
- Thread starter devhen
- Start date
Hmm...I use HD650 and at 12 o'clock it's pretty darn loud. At 2:00 it's painful.
I'm at a loss, unless you really like your music very loud.
[redacted]
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
I have the G109A (unbalanced version), and because my headphones are under 50 ohm, I never messed with gain. For me the amp has plenty of gain. If I push it much past ~11AM on the dial I'd go deaf.
Re Tuneslover's volume issue, only a couple of possible causes come to mind. socks mk2 named one likely suspect--low voltage output from a source device. In my experience you're more likely to see high voltage than low from a source device, but one never knows. Since we know the HD600 is 300 ohms & gain is maxxed for that, the only other factor I can think of is sensitivity. Just checked the Sennheiser site and can't find a spec for that on the HD600s.
I'm no EE, but I know that for headphones, sensitivity, somewhat like for loudpspeakers, can affect total loudness, such that a low sensivitity pair of phones can't get as loud as a high sensitivity pair, all else being equal.
Still and all, the Lake People is no shrinking violet in power output. I'm surprised to hear it can't drive these headphones satisfactorily. Are all connections tight as can be?
(sorry can't think of anything else)
Re Tuneslover's volume issue, only a couple of possible causes come to mind. socks mk2 named one likely suspect--low voltage output from a source device. In my experience you're more likely to see high voltage than low from a source device, but one never knows. Since we know the HD600 is 300 ohms & gain is maxxed for that, the only other factor I can think of is sensitivity. Just checked the Sennheiser site and can't find a spec for that on the HD600s.
I'm no EE, but I know that for headphones, sensitivity, somewhat like for loudpspeakers, can affect total loudness, such that a low sensivitity pair of phones can't get as loud as a high sensitivity pair, all else being equal.
Still and all, the Lake People is no shrinking violet in power output. I'm surprised to hear it can't drive these headphones satisfactorily. Are all connections tight as can be?
(sorry can't think of anything else)
Natalya
New Head-Fier
Hey 
I'm considering Lake People G103-S in the future as a long-term investment for higher-impedance headphones. I've been looking around for reviews of it, but I haven't found much.
If there is anyone that currently owns it, can tell me how it performs as an amp and if you would recommend it or not. Also what DAC pairing would go great with it.
Thanks!
I'm considering Lake People G103-S in the future as a long-term investment for higher-impedance headphones. I've been looking around for reviews of it, but I haven't found much.If there is anyone that currently owns it, can tell me how it performs as an amp and if you would recommend it or not. Also what DAC pairing would go great with it.
Thanks!
Tuneslover
Headphoneus Supremus
I have had this amp for a few years now and it drives my HE500 & HD650 very nicely. Drives them effortlessly and cleanly. It's a well engineered and solidly built amp. It is a notoriously transparent amp which is good if your source is clean. Earlier this year I added a Schiit Bimby DAC and the G109S conveys music it a very realistic way.
The 2 headphone outputs are a very nice feature that allows me to drive both of my power demanding headphones simultaneously without strain. The negatives are that there us no preamp out. Also making gain changes is a bit of a hassle because you need to remove 8 screws to open the unit up in order to move the jumpers. I experimented with all 3 settings and settled on the default setting for quite some time. After adding the Bimby I felt a bit more gain was desirable so I moved it to the 3rd (highest) setting.
Because this amp is so neutral it might come across as being a bit unexciting but I appreciate it's honestly and it's ability to permit you to hear how your headphones truly sound. I have no intention of ever parting with this amp.
The 2 headphone outputs are a very nice feature that allows me to drive both of my power demanding headphones simultaneously without strain. The negatives are that there us no preamp out. Also making gain changes is a bit of a hassle because you need to remove 8 screws to open the unit up in order to move the jumpers. I experimented with all 3 settings and settled on the default setting for quite some time. After adding the Bimby I felt a bit more gain was desirable so I moved it to the 3rd (highest) setting.
Because this amp is so neutral it might come across as being a bit unexciting but I appreciate it's honestly and it's ability to permit you to hear how your headphones truly sound. I have no intention of ever parting with this amp.
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
In my experience, it's hard to go wrong w/Lake People. But specific to Natalya's comment re getting the G103-S as a long-term investment for higher impedance headphones, I don't see why you wouldn't step up to the G109A for relatively little add'l money (~$70), more power, and a better stepped volume pot. Plus I & others have had experience with it.
I haven't used the G-109A on high impedance headphones, but in my experience w/3 regular impedance headphones, the G109A can do no wrong. It's smooth as silk, slightly warm, grain-free, but very powerful. Sonically, everything is just there, right where it should be. It's honest w/o being in the least fatiguing, and it gives rich bass (for those 'phones that have it) w/o editorializing. Very few SS amps can do that...
Specs below for both Lake People amps. Differences aren't huge, but they're all in favor of the G109A...and it's also pretty clear that the G109A walks all over the G103S with regular impedance headphones (where most of the world lives, and were even Natalya may have a headphone or 2 needing amplification).
G109A (list @$479, but w/onsite coupon code it's becomes $407.96)
"The limited-edition Lake People G109A celebrates 30 years of brand excellence with a special front panel design, striking gold silk screening, and matching gold metalized feet. Plus this model adds low-ESR Nichicon capacitors and a protection relay circuit (used in all Violectric models)."0
"The G109-A was developped with the target to enable highest transmission quality for low- , medium- and high-impedance headphones, as typical for most high-quality headsets. The amplifiers of G109-A are preciously designed with four transistors per channel. Due to its circuitry layout optimized in terms of noise and THD and specially adapted to the headphones mentioned above, the G109-A fulfils highest quality demands."
[I'm almost certain the G109Astepped volume pot is an upgrade vs what the G103S has—it's easily the best stepped pot I've ever used…plenty of steps for every situation]
Max. output level:
> 18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW;
> 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW;
> 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW;
> 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW;
> 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW
G103S (list $339)
"The variable gain structure of the G103 is best suited to drive low to high impedance headphones (16 - 600 Ohm). Connections consist of unbalanced RCA inputs and two 1/4" headphone connectors. This unit has a built-in power supply with a standard IEC socket. The complete case along with the front and back panel are made of anodized aluminum."
Max. output level:
> 17.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 530 mW
> 16.0 Veff in 300 ohms = 850 mW
> 13.7 Veff in 200 ohms = 940 mW
> 7.5 Veff in 50 ohms = 1130 mW
> 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 890 mW
I haven't used the G-109A on high impedance headphones, but in my experience w/3 regular impedance headphones, the G109A can do no wrong. It's smooth as silk, slightly warm, grain-free, but very powerful. Sonically, everything is just there, right where it should be. It's honest w/o being in the least fatiguing, and it gives rich bass (for those 'phones that have it) w/o editorializing. Very few SS amps can do that...
Specs below for both Lake People amps. Differences aren't huge, but they're all in favor of the G109A...and it's also pretty clear that the G109A walks all over the G103S with regular impedance headphones (where most of the world lives, and were even Natalya may have a headphone or 2 needing amplification).
G109A (list @$479, but w/onsite coupon code it's becomes $407.96)
"The limited-edition Lake People G109A celebrates 30 years of brand excellence with a special front panel design, striking gold silk screening, and matching gold metalized feet. Plus this model adds low-ESR Nichicon capacitors and a protection relay circuit (used in all Violectric models)."0
"The G109-A was developped with the target to enable highest transmission quality for low- , medium- and high-impedance headphones, as typical for most high-quality headsets. The amplifiers of G109-A are preciously designed with four transistors per channel. Due to its circuitry layout optimized in terms of noise and THD and specially adapted to the headphones mentioned above, the G109-A fulfils highest quality demands."
[I'm almost certain the G109Astepped volume pot is an upgrade vs what the G103S has—it's easily the best stepped pot I've ever used…plenty of steps for every situation]
Max. output level:
> 18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW;
> 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW;
> 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW;
> 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW;
> 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW
G103S (list $339)
"The variable gain structure of the G103 is best suited to drive low to high impedance headphones (16 - 600 Ohm). Connections consist of unbalanced RCA inputs and two 1/4" headphone connectors. This unit has a built-in power supply with a standard IEC socket. The complete case along with the front and back panel are made of anodized aluminum."
Max. output level:
> 17.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 530 mW
> 16.0 Veff in 300 ohms = 850 mW
> 13.7 Veff in 200 ohms = 940 mW
> 7.5 Veff in 50 ohms = 1130 mW
> 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 890 mW
project86
Headphoneus Supremus
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I've heard the G103P and G109P - not exactly the same as G103S versus G109A, but realistically the differences should be very minimal.
If the price difference isn't massive, and your budget allows, I'd go for the G109 for sure. It's a more refined sound that can scale well even with expensive DACs. G103 is a great little amp with a fun, warm signature, but G109 is clearly a step above.
If the price difference isn't massive, and your budget allows, I'd go for the G109 for sure. It's a more refined sound that can scale well even with expensive DACs. G103 is a great little amp with a fun, warm signature, but G109 is clearly a step above.
Natalya
New Head-Fier
Thanks for the response!
The G109A is definitely a possibility for me, and I've considered it a few times already, as I've seen nothing but praise for the G109 in general. The only thing that makes me hesitate from going above the G103S is that I want to save money for a good DAC to pair with it. On the other hand I could get the G109A and forego getting an amp for a while.
The G109A is definitely a possibility for me, and I've considered it a few times already, as I've seen nothing but praise for the G109 in general. The only thing that makes me hesitate from going above the G103S is that I want to save money for a good DAC to pair with it. On the other hand I could get the G109A and forego getting an amp for a while.
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
de nada. I've learned a LOT from Head-Fi'ers...your're more than welcome to whatever I know
Re DACs (a deep subject!), if you're saving up for a big-bucks DAC, I'll shut up. After all, I just stepped up to the priciest DAC of my career (Audio GD NOS 19) and am loving it. I'd been moving toward a real digital upgrade for years, and doing a lot of headphone listening just pushed me over the edge.
However...if you're not into spending big bucks, and especially if you're tolerant of delta-sigma DACs, I have an el cheapo suggestion: my favorite DAC ever is the humble Peachtree Audio DAC iTx (2nd rev). I tried various DACs over the years, but the little Peachtree unit was the first one that didn't have any real upper midrange/treble glare. It just sounded good to me, and that continued even w/headphones feeding good HP amps. It also had "galvanic isolation" which apparently is for real, since I detected no improvements whatever when I put a USB Regen ahead of the DAC iTx.
I liked this DAC so much that I ended up w/2 of them: giving 1 to my brother w/a system I'm setting up for him; keeping the other as a spare. You can get a good used one for $175-$200 max.
Of course, if you're hunting bigger game, good luck and watch out for your wallet!
Re DACs (a deep subject!), if you're saving up for a big-bucks DAC, I'll shut up. After all, I just stepped up to the priciest DAC of my career (Audio GD NOS 19) and am loving it. I'd been moving toward a real digital upgrade for years, and doing a lot of headphone listening just pushed me over the edge.
However...if you're not into spending big bucks, and especially if you're tolerant of delta-sigma DACs, I have an el cheapo suggestion: my favorite DAC ever is the humble Peachtree Audio DAC iTx (2nd rev). I tried various DACs over the years, but the little Peachtree unit was the first one that didn't have any real upper midrange/treble glare. It just sounded good to me, and that continued even w/headphones feeding good HP amps. It also had "galvanic isolation" which apparently is for real, since I detected no improvements whatever when I put a USB Regen ahead of the DAC iTx.
I liked this DAC so much that I ended up w/2 of them: giving 1 to my brother w/a system I'm setting up for him; keeping the other as a spare. You can get a good used one for $175-$200 max.
Of course, if you're hunting bigger game, good luck and watch out for your wallet!
I'm using the HifimeDIY sabre 9018 as a source, i have no problem with it when plugged to my Polaris, plenty of power, i only have to push the volume forward to reach the same level with the LP g109, this is very strange!
[redacted]
Clever...
It could have been the reason but...i don't think it's the cause.
When i open the case, the toroidal transformer is marked "115v", i'm in europe where we use 220v, could that be the reason ?
At first i was thinking the power output was divided by two because of the possibility to plug two headphones into it, that there was a switch to double the power when using only one headphone, well, i was wrong.
Thx for posting the manual, i already read it yesterday, my english is terrible but like i said, i did'nt see any instructions relative to the lack of power that could explain my issue.
[redacted]
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