Laiv Harmony µDAC, Discrete Balanced R-2R DAC

[OhmsClaw]

I think he means more extended in the bass.

I've experienced NOS bass on heavy test tracks being more... reverb? A tad slower? More resonant perhaps? Slower decay of fundamentals?

That might be the ticket. Especially when swapping back to OS and it tightening up (quicker/punchier)

 

[spruce]

Interesting. I believe I’m now starting to hear the uDAC settle with more use. For instance, the thinness and sharpness seem to have diminshed a good amount. Makes me wonder how many hours the uDAC review units have on them that YouTubers receive? Thinking about some of the things I said initially, I don’t believe I would be saying them now.

For those who’ve had their uDAC sometime, is there a point (amount of hours) that you felt it completely settled in? I do not recall seeing burn-in guidelines from LAIV.

Feeling very lucky to have the Qutest, uDAC/uDDC, and Ares II (with fpga update). Each bring something unique and very enjoyable to the table. The uDAC sounding the most realistic.

 

[StokeNewingtonJohn]

Interesting. I believe I’m now starting to hear the uDAC settle with more use. For instance, the thinness and sharpness seem to have diminshed a good amount. Makes me wonder how many hours the uDAC review units have on them that YouTubers receive? Thinking about some of the things I said initially, I don’t believe I would be saying them now.

For those who’ve had their uDAC sometime, is there a point (amount of hours) that you felt it completely settled in? I do not recall seeing burn-in guidelines from LAIV.

Feeling very lucky to have the Qutest, uDAC/uDDC, and Ares II (with fpga update). Each bring something unique and very enjoyable to the table. The uDAC sounding the most realistic.

Hi, interested to hear about a Qutest comparison. Are you running them through tubes?

 

[JerseyD]

Interesting. I believe I’m now starting to hear the uDAC settle with more use. For instance, the thinness and sharpness seem to have diminshed a good amount. Makes me wonder how many hours the uDAC review units have on them that YouTubers receive? Thinking about some of the things I said initially, I don’t believe I would be saying them now.

For those who’ve had their uDAC sometime, is there a point (amount of hours) that you felt it completely settled in? I do not recall seeing burn-in guidelines from LAIV.

Feeling very lucky to have the Qutest, uDAC/uDDC, and Ares II (with fpga update). Each bring something unique and very enjoyable to the table. The uDAC sounding the most realistic.

I read somewhere that R2R DACs need around 200 hours, but I don’t really know. Have had mine playing for about that long since I got it. Never heard thin or sharp, even at first though. Was wishing for a little more treble, and it either developed or my brain adjusted…

 

[vvume]

I read somewhere that R2R DACs need around 200 hours, but I don’t really know. Have had mine playing for about that long since I got it. Never heard thin or sharp, even at first though. Was wishing for a little more treble, and it either developed or my brain adjusted…

R2R dacs can take even longer to fully settle down, though significant changes should have settled in 100-150 hours. Also, they need to be on for sometime for the resistor ladders to reach stable operating temperatures (30 mins?) and so best not to listen to the dac right after cranking things on. Same with any components having OXCO or temperature controlled clocks. I don't ever turn off my LHY UIP, Gaia DDC, or Laiv dac unless I am not planning on listening to music for an extended period of time though I found out that the Laiv has an automatic standby mode. Not sure if it is keeping things warm in that mode.

 

[Old Norse]

Interesting. I believe I’m now starting to hear the uDAC settle with more use. For instance, the thinness and sharpness seem to have diminshed a good amount. Makes me wonder how many hours the uDAC review units have on them that YouTubers receive? Thinking about some of the things I said initially, I don’t believe I would be saying them now.

For those who’ve had their uDAC sometime, is there a point (amount of hours) that you felt it completely settled in? I do not recall seeing burn-in guidelines from LAIV.

Feeling very lucky to have the Qutest, uDAC/uDDC, and Ares II (with fpga update). Each bring something unique and very enjoyable to the table. The uDAC sounding the most realistic.

Interesting. Please share any differences if you compare them more.

 

[razoredge]

just placed an order for the micro. intending to use it with HQPlayer. Hope this will work well with my Meze poet.

 

[]eep]

This is the opposite of all measurements and experience with all NOS sources at redbook ever.

They literally roll off early and couldn't possibly be more extended in the 17Khz+ direction.



Perhaps you mean they appear more spacious.

Is this a synthetic signal or a recorded signal?

I've said this before: this rolloff is a consequence of 44.1 recording. It's the discrepancy between a sinus and 44kHz sampling. However: if you play this back, you'll get the same level. It won't drop off anymore. Oversampling won't help either when is was recorded in 44.1. Unless you have a cd with 'emphasis'.

Most of the roll-off in old DACs was caused by the analog brick wall filter. Iodified a lot of R2R NOS DACs and removing the 20kHz filter restored all highs and air to the music. You might say "you can't do that because you'll measure very bad with introduced anti-aliasing noise". Well, if you want to listen to frequency sweeps all day, you'd be right. However, in real recorded music 20khz overtones are already at minus 40-60dB. So that whole fancy is just that. I've listened to those modified early '90 R2R DACs for years and they sound more natural than any other I had a chance to hear on shows, brought in or with friends.

If you don't know how to interpret measurement data your measurements are meaningless. That's the most important thing I learned in chemical analist tech university (I don't know the proper English term).

-----

What I've read from the Laiv GanM so far is that it has a very gentle character. Like the HP amplifier part of the HP2a. The other cheaper alternative I found, the SMSL VMV A1 pro, also a GaNFET (with the same Infineon GaNFET transistors) is not like that. There is no review anywhere of those SMSL GaNFETs. Until yesterday, in German. But what he said is that it's very neutral and clean. Not clinical but straight. The Laiv has a lot more leaning to tube sound without being slow, noisy or blurry.

Edit: the 6-moons GanM review is completed.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Is this a synthetic signal or a recorded signal?

I've said this before: this rolloff is a consequence of 44.1 recording. It's the discrepancy between a sinus and 44kHz sampling. However: if you play this back, you'll get the same level. It won't drop off anymore. Oversampling won't help either when is was recorded in 44.1. Unless you have a cd with 'emphasis'.

Most of the roll-off in old DACs was caused by the analog brick wall filter. Iodified a lot of R2R NOS DACs and removing the 20kHz filter restored all highs and air to the music. You might say "you can't do that because you'll measure very bad with introduced anti-aliasing noise". Well, if you want to listen to frequency sweeps all day, you'd be right. However, in real recorded music 20khz overtones are already at minus 40-60dB. So that whole fancy is just that. I've listened to those modified early '90 R2R DACs for years and they sound more natural than any other I had a chance to hear on shows, brought in or with friends.

If you don't know how to interpret measurement data your measurements are meaningless. That's the most important thing I learned in chemical analist tech university (I don't know the proper English term).

-----

What I've read from the Laiv GanM so far is that it has a very gentle character. Like the HP amplifier part of the HP2a. The other cheaper alternative I found, the SMSL VMV A1 pro, also a GaNFET (with the same Infineon GaNFET transistors) is not like that. There is no review anywhere of those SMSL GaNFETs. Until yesterday, in German. But what he said is that it's very neutral and clean. Not clinical but straight. The Laiv has a lot more leaning to tube sound without being slow, noisy or blurry.

Edit: the 6-moons GanM review is completed.

That's GoldenSound’s measurements posted. Anything OS'd beyond 88.2/96 will just push the same poor performance filter behavior beyond audible, but for those of us who can still discern the upper registers it's fairly obvious and annoying with 44.1/48 playback to hear the roll-off vs the same material pushed all to 192 or all to 352.8 when given the option.

This was obvious with software and hardware OS across Cayin(RU6), denafrips(Ares 15th), & musician (Draco)

Whether that's more natural to you is for you to decide

As for the SMSL, are you referring to the PA-X? That's a very attractive option!

 

[]eep]

I think Goldensound would use a synthetic signal? That means to adapt the digital to a 20kHz sinus you would lose 3dB. But when you're using a recording where the recording sampling already lost 3dB to fit the sinus you won't lose an extra 3dB but just reconstruct the original with the 3dB you lost while recording. If you don't run into a brick wall filter that is...
If you make a proper recording of 24/96 you won't notice any loss. If your recording is 44.1 upsampling won't help you one bit (free pun ) because those 3dB down is in the recoding.

Did you catch my drift? I'm following the math here. (Not to brag but I scored a 9 in advanced math an did integrals in 1 step in my head).

Thabamar just posted a review of the SMSL PA-X that uses the same Infineon GaNFET transistors. You can use it in stereo and mono, both RCA or XLR. The other models (VMV A1 pro and PA200 only have 1 XLR for mono). He drove his speakers to 110dB with this amp without deteriorating the sound. That's not healthy for your ears. Great value but I think not as refined as the Laiv GanM (fixed ic opamps).

 

[OhmsClaw]

I think Goldensound would use a synthetic signal? That means to adapt the digital to a 20kHz sinus you would lose 3dB. But when you're using a recording where the recording sampling already lost 3dB to fit the sinus you won't lose an extra 3dB but just reconstruct the original with the 3dB you lost while recording. If you don't run into a brick wall filter that is...
If you make a proper recording of 24/96 you won't notice any loss. If your recording is 44.1 upsampling won't help you one bit (free pun ) because those 3dB down is in the recoding.

Did you catch my drift? I'm following the math here. (Not to brag but I scored a 9 in advanced math an did integrals in 1 step in my head).

Thabamar just posted a review of the SMSL PA-X that uses the same Infineon GaNFET transistors. You can use it in stereo and mono, both RCA or XLR. The other models (VMV A1 pro and PA200 only have 1 XLR for mono). He drove his speakers to 110dB with this amp without deteriorating the sound. That's not healthy for your ears. Great value but I think not as refined as the Laiv GanM (fixed ic opamps).

I believe you will lose the 3dB from the reconstruction regardless in this mode of psuedo-NOS. True NOS may retain the original ducking for DNR.

The Laiv's are orders of magnitude more than that PA-X i thank you for the introduction. I was looking for a used Ragnarock 2 in black on the second hand market since it was discontinued but exactly what I needed. If no dice the Billie Heaven 11 2 remains on the table if custom.