Laiv Harmony µDAC, Discrete Balanced R-2R DAC

[g4ndr1k]

Harmony is NOT analytical at all..

In my case, the Harmony sounds smoother than the AKM DAC in the EverSolo DMP-A8, despite its excellent measurements. While detail retrieval is similar, the Harmony feels more relaxing to my ears in my system.

 

[myusernameislove]

The what?

Someone "tested" fresh unit of the shelf apparently.. Harmony is NOT analytical at all..

It is, if you compare it to Holo May or R26. Or you do not hear those edges (sharp edge of notes) in the comparison video? It is the most sigma-delta like sounding presentation in R2R dac I heard in demo videos.

btw it is a little bit distracting in headphones. It seems more holographic than R26 too.

Btw - possible explanation of what is there to hear no matter how first the April is: https://darko.audio/2024/04/laiv-harmony-dac-review/

So the question stands. Did uDac inherit it?

I do not say it is bad thing. It clearly is not. It is specific trait that may and probably will sound great on its own, not as via another dac that can not translate full experience of it.

 

[spruce]

Thanks! He's got a review of the micro DDC in a few days and he had a few glamour shots of the micro DAC and micro DDC together in this video so it'll be interesting to see what he says. I did leave a comment asking him to review their performance together as many folks were wondering. Please do the same!

Edit: review is on the way!

 

[]eep]

When I listened to comparison of R26 to Harmony Dac (here - A is R26, B is Harmony) via headphones, I noticed, that R26 is more musical because of the way it presents the soundstage and Harmony DAC is more analytical from the exact same reason.

I wonder if uDac is similar to Harmony Dac regarding the way it edges notes in the soundstage, or if something changed and sound is presented differently on uDac, more as R26 does it. I preffered R26's type of sound delivery, but I do not mind Harmony DAC's more snappy sound.

Differences in soundstage:

• Harmony Dac: dynamic sounding tight notes (all kind of them, but bass dominates) slam on sides very noticeably. This type of note delivery enhances feeling that the soundstage focuses on width and notes are more separated and that Harmony DAC is suitable for analytical listening and is not meant for easy enjoyment of music flow. It also means soundstage seems less coherent.
• R26: no dynamic slams of bass notes on sides. Therefore the sound is easier to listen and more "musical", "coherent" and not "analytical".

Differences in tonal character:

• Harmony Dac: more prominent (and crisp) highs.
• R26: less crisp highs than Harmony DAC. First review mentions that uDAC has less highs than Harmony DAC and more bass heavy sound (then both of these two dacs), i.e. possibly a little veiled sound as R26 has it in its recessed top region.

Conclusion:
Sound of R26 is softer than Harmony Dac due to both differences (1, less dynamic slam on sides, less analytical presentation, less note edges 2, less dominant highs).

Final question:
Did uDAC lost also some of its analytical nature of presenting soundstage? And if it lost some crispiness, did it gain more easy going musical coherency, such as R26 has it?

So in a word: the R26 sounds sloppy.

This really is a misrepresentation of how the Harmony sounds. This reminds me of my previous R2R DACs. A smearing that you only recognize when it's gone, i.e. a loss of information. Mind you: you can never get information back once it's lost. Being able to hear that information doesn't mean it's analytical. And covering everything in chocolate doesn't mean it's suddenly musical. Don't get me wrong, I love chocolate (who doesn't) but a covered in chocolate?
Once on a fair I tasted a artisanal Belgian praline where the cream filling had gone bad... That was a surprise of the nasty bad kind.
Ok, I'm exaggerating, but that's just to make a point.

If you add a DDC with precise clocks your resulting sound will become clearer and 'crisper' with a darker background. This would be a bad thing then?

As to your question,
by giving the answer to the question behind the question. The dac just needs to translate the information without adding or distracting any. I suggest you use a tube amp or get a more forgiving transducer (headphones or speakers). Not get the dac that lets things get lost in translation.

I have some tracks I use to test gear for harshness and sibilance. On normal gear you'd think the recording or the microphone is bad. But with the Harmony (or my turntable) I hear just how good the recording actually is. Like: "Yes, this is how it's supposed to sound". Treading a fine line between realism and sibilance.

 

[myusernameislove]

Ill get uDac. I tried to support what I perceive by providing link to Darko audio's review. There is probably something unusual going on and Mr. Srajan from Darko digs it.

 

[]eep]

Ill get uDac. I tried to explain what is going on this page by providing link to Darko audio. There is probably something unusual going on and Mr. Srajan from Darko digs it.

I wanted to edit my response but then you'd probably miss it...

I have another suggestion. Far cheaper (less than half). I recently bought a Fosi ZD3 dac. Out of curiosity but also because it matches my ZA3's. I'm feeding it coax though a DDC6 with Crystek CCHD957 clocks. I changed the RCA opamp to Sparkos (or the pair if you want to use XLR). I had friends over to listen, doing slow AB testing (Fosi vs Laiv Harmony, switching on the HP2a is seamless). The difference is so tiny it's creepy.
But what is so great about this: you can change the character of the dac just by swapping that 1 opamp. Or 2. With the cheap SX52B you'll get close to what you like. Or the even cheaper OracleII 02 for even softer sound. I'm using the 8802 (an oem for a highly regarded brand) or go Burson flavours.

 

[Alfredo3001]

Will wait for your first impressions

Will definitely do it later!

On another note, I noticed that we can select the I2S clock as either local or I2S (external) on the µDAC. Has anyone tried changing the settings? I'm planning to test it later.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Will definitely do it later!

On another note, I noticed that we can select the I2S clock as either local or I2S (external) on the µDAC. Has anyone tried changing the settings? I'm planning to test it later.

Its generally better to clock synchronous up-stream (select the external).

Edit: @Jake2 if that's the case it's a distinction without a difference in the selected packages. Published -167dBc at floor vs <100dBc at 10Hz no spec at better performing higher frequencies. If anything the Accusilion is more stable across the operating temperatures at +/-20ppm vs +/-20 to +/-50ppm in the Chrys. Neither package published a ppm/year drift spec.

I suspect the ddc remains unpublished because its more of the same. Both the 45.158/49.152 clocks are non-descript cans but can be disciplined by a 10Mhz reference for another 900/1800/2800 USD in your flavor of MUTEC master clock ️

 

[rafabro]

It is, if you compare it to Holo May

No. I was directly comparing Holo May in my system, my friend system and other friend system.
So three times Harmony vs. Holo May KTE with different amps, transports, speakers and rooms.
No, Harmony is never analytical. Contrary is very musical and analog like.
I very like both DACs and both are fantastic. Only analytical DAC same class I know would be Denafrips Terminator.

So I thing you were comparing fresh unit, straight from box without proper burn-in time.

 

[spruce]

Had a quick listen to my new Laiv micro dac last night. Only running for about 60 minutes after unboxing. Natural, punchy and very engaging/enjoyable sound. First impressions but did not seem on the same level as Qutest in some areas, will need more time to pinpoint. Was not blown away by the build but definitely good and adequate. Qutest seems more solid and heavier for example. I did also perceive some slight sharpness and/or thinness but hard to tell exactly what that was attributed to at this early point.

I believe I'll be keeping this regardless for what it has to offer above and beyond the Qutest/Ares II or upgrade to the full sized version (or get DDC/external power supply) as I really liked what I heard. Was immediately bopping my feet/head....engaging. Still need more time to properly and fully assess tho.

 

[Alfredo3001]

Had a quick listen to my new Laiv micro dac last night. Only running for about 60 minutes after unboxing. Natural, punchy and very engaging/enjoyable sound.

I agree! It sounds "fun" (punchy, V-shaped?). I believe there is a treble peak somewhere, perhaps because it's still in the burn-in process. It's been on for 48 hours, with about 6 hours of music playback.

In my chain, it currently doesn't beat the Berkeley DAC2 (around $5000 MSRP). So far, the DAC2 does almost everything "better." This isn't meant to discourage anyone, especially since I haven't used a <$1000 DAC in a long time. My last one was the BF2 OG.

Was not blown away by the build but definitely good and adequate.

I agree on some points. The build quality looks great, but the DAC doesn't feel sturdy. Heavy cables will move it around since it's lightweight, which could be good or bad depending on preference. Due to the light weight, pushing either of the two front buttons causes the unit to slide back, so you have to hold it in place. However, the display looks very responsive, and I like that.

I uploaded a video showing the screen responsiveness and button presses. I recorded it twice since the first time was at 30fps, which didn’t properly capture the responsiveness.

 

[]eep]

Had a quick listen to my new Laiv micro dac last night. Only running for about 60 minutes after unboxing. Natural, punchy and very engaging/enjoyable sound. First impressions but did not seem on the same level as Qutest in some areas, will need more time to pinpoint. Was not blown away by the build but definitely good and adequate. Qutest seems more solid and heavier for example. I did also perceive some slight sharpness and/or thinness but hard to tell exactly what that was attributed to at this early point.

I believe I'll be keeping this regardless for what it has to offer above and beyond the Qutest/Ares II or upgrade to the full sized version (or get DDC/external power supply) as I really liked what I heard. Was immediately bopping my feet/head....engaging. Still need more time to properly and fully assess tho.

The first weeks the sound can change a little bit but the general character is there. And afterwards when you forgot about the initial niggles and are just enjoying it you wonder how it could ever have sounded differently.

I think what you mean to say about the build is that they left rather thin walls, leaving it to be a bit lightweight. Both are CNC-ed from a solid billet. That's what I think of the LExt box with the HP2a. It needs more weight so it doesn't get tilted by stiff cables (like the umbellical to the main unit).

I know; it's semantics. Build or design. Build refers to how well it's executed. Reminds me of how I built my speakers. The first pair I did with the table saw and tolerance were, erm... Tolerant. On the second pair I used a router for the connections and now the backpanel fits so tight I never even bothered to screw it down. You can hardly see where the joints are (or not at all).
If I compare the Laiv build to some early Chinese DACs I've worked on. I cut myself, it needed 18 screw to get it open, coarse finish and black anodisation that slowly turns to golden brown under sunlight exposure. Oh, and a board that is full of solder flux.

What I like about the full size stack is that it just doesn't move when you push a button or insert the headphone jack. It's just so smooth and solid.

 

[Alfredo3001]

I have made some discoveries after @OhmsClaw 's suggestion and some testing.

For measurement-focused users, you can skip this.

For others interested in a DDC, I noticed a difference with my Red + uDAC. At first, I was using the I2S mode set to "Local." I switched to I2S, and I noticed an overall improvement, clearer sound, better imaging, and tighter bass, like removing a veil (overused, Ik).

With the local clock, the sound felt a bit boomy, but switching to I2S with an external clock tightened it up. I believe this is the intended purpose of a DDC. Having Local as the default doesn’t seem right, I can see multiple users connecting it and not switching to external. The Local mode doesn’t sound bad at all, but with I2S and an external clock, it sounds even better!

I recommend that users comparing USB vs. I2S ensure they switch to I2S instead of leaving it on Local mode.

 

[spruce]

Sounds like you know what you're talking about! If the micro DDC may be a good add to the micro DAC (switching to I2S with an external clock as suggested) do you have any thoughts about adding a different power supply for both? Also, curious if you feel the DAC2 does timbre better than the micro DAC?

 

[Alfredo3001]

Sounds like you know what you're talking about! If the micro DDC may be a good add to the micro DAC (switching to I2S with an external clock as suggested) do you have any thoughts about adding a different power supply for both?

I don’t own the µDDC, I have the Holo Red (connected to the µDAC via I2S with a cheap 1ft cable at the moment). I'm considering adding a power supply for the µDAC, as well as trying other I2S cables.

So far, I’ve been recommended the iFi iPower X (1.5A) and iFi iPower Elite (3.5A). I wanted to try the Ferrum Hypsos, but the µDAC at $1,000 plus a $1,200 power supply....

One thing I’m curious about the Tubulus cables seem to be highly recommended for I2S, but they cost an additional $350–$600+. Imagine a setup like this: Callisto USB > Red > Tubulus I2S > µDAC + Hypsos. I love this hobby!

Also, curious if you feel the DAC2 does timbre better than the micro DAC?

At the moment, yes (Still burning in). I have been using the DAC2 since September 2024. I've taken for granted what the DAC2 can do after using it exclusively. The best vocal reproductions I’ve heard have been with the DAC2 + V550 (especially female vocals over male).

I don’t know how to explain it, but the DAC2 in my chain gives me goosebumps with the midrange (violins, for example), they feel almost real. The µDAC, on the other hand, seems to sound richer. All in all, it might just come down to preference, as I tend to favor a neutral-tilting warm chain.