[DannyBai]

I listened to the Tirsto's on stage setting so take that into effect on my impressions off memory.

Stage is better presented on the M500's. Tiesto's had big stage but it was further back. M500's are not as deep. Music is presented closer and instruments are easier to pick out.

 

[BestEarCN]

Ah, I thought M500 would be deeper and wider. I like 1r's depth but its width is just not matching its depth(I can hear how far away the crow is in a concert, but not how wide they spread), and its warmish tone and not very detailed sound makes me to move on, now on k267 I have clarity, but the soundstage is too small for me(same track, the tiesto's crow is much more closer yet a wider than 1r, pretty much more lifelike, but also small)

 

[DannyBai]

All based on memory so take it with a grain of salt. I know that I prefer the M500 over the 1R and K267's though.

 

[BestEarCN]

hope my local bestbuy would get some in stock to try out, I could find them on bestbuy website already

 

[DannyBai]

That would be ideal. KEF did well with both their models.

 

[DS21]

Quote:

***  no microphonics from the cable. ***

 
Hmm. My experience is opposite. Compared to ADDIEMs, ViSang R-02s, or Altec im716's (rebadged Ety ER-4's with a S/P switch) with the cord wrapped around my ear, the M200's are quite microphonic. I wish KEF had fed the wire through the tail of the eighth note. 
 
Quote:

Does anyone with smaller ears and ear canals have experience with the M200?  I usually take the smallest tip with an IEM so I'm curious if the size of the housing and tips makes for a difficult/impossible seal.

 
I have fairly small ears. I cannot even fit an iBud, and the ViSang R-02 are uncomfortable after a short listen. I was worried when I saw the size of the M200's barrel, but I've found them comfortable for 3+ hour listens.
 
The ADDIEM with Comply Whoomp foamies are ultimately more comfortable for me, but the KEFs with the small and even the medium tips are comfortable and seal well.
 
Quote:

I've read that M200 is more tilted towards mid-bass than sub-bass. Do you guys find the mid/upper bass more than sub-bass? And does the mid-bass affect the mids like the ASG-2?

 
No IEM can actually do sub-bass, because sub-bass is perceived by the bones of the face and chest. So anyone talking about subbass in the context of IEMs is really just showing a basic lack of training in correlating sounds to frequencies.
 
I'm surprised that I'm the only one who finds them to have too much low-end emphasis. I actually exchanged my first pair, thinking that maybe the crossovers in my first pair (presumably in that first aluminum cable-wart) may have been malfunctioning, and the second pair isn't much if any better. I still haven't decided whether or not to keep them, because the ADDIEM is ultimately more neutral and more comfortable, though I think the M200s really up the game in terms of industrial design with their 1/8th note shape.

 

[bigfullz]

I just pulled the trigger on the KEF m200s! I was hoping to pick them up @ BestBuy, but they are not planning on stocking the KEF in store Newegg has them for no tax + no shipping, which BB was happy to match
So now I wait for the delivery...

 

[blueangel2323]

Quote:

No IEM can actually do sub-bass, because sub-bass is perceived by the bones of the face and chest. So anyone talking about subbass in the context of IEMs is really just showing a basic lack of training in correlating sounds to frequencies.

Just because we can't feel the vibrations in our bodies like with a subwoofer doesn't mean that we can't hear sub-bass frequencies. If an IEM doesn't produce any sound below 80Hz, a significant part of the music would be missing 

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

No IEM can actually do sub-bass, because sub-bass is perceived by the bones of the face and chest. So anyone talking about subbass in the context of IEMs is really just showing a basic lack of training in correlating sounds to frequencies.

 
No offense, but this is probably the most ridiculous claim I've ever read on head-fi, and its a tough competition. Get your self a cheap pair of iem, earbuds, anything, go find a tone generator and play 20 hz trough it, or 25 hz.  As low as you can hear.
 
I can hear the 20 Hz tone more clearly and strongly trough the cheap Sennheiser cx300 than trough any of the full sized headphones, including the T1's which are flat down to that area.

 

[jant71]

Quote:

 
No offense, but this is probably the most ridiculous claim I've ever read on head-fi, and its a tough competition. Get your self a cheap pair of iem, earbuds, anything, go find a tone generator and play 20 hz trough it, or 25 hz.  As low as you can hear.
 
I can hear the 20 Hz tone more clearly and strongly trough the cheap Sennheiser cx300 than trough any of the full sized headphones, including the T1's which are flat down to that area.

We have been through this before. A term can have two definitions and of course tiny little drivers jammed in your ears can't interact with the outer ear and bones so they can't do the visceral/physical thing but that doesn't mean they don't do sub-bass or  have sub-woofer drivers. We all have come to know the meaning relates mostly to the frequency reach. "Sub-bass in the context of IEMs" exactly, which is a different context than, for example, car speaker sub-bass.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

We have been through this before. A term can have two definitions and of course tiny little drivers jammed in your ears can't interact with the outer ear and bones so they can't do the visceral/physical thing but that doesn't mean they don't do sub-bass or  have sub-woofer drivers. We all have come to know the meaning relates mostly to the frequency reach. "Sub-bass in the context of IEMs" exactly, which is a different context than, for example, car speaker sub-bass.

 
 
Saying that IEM's cant do sub-bass, is like saying they can't reproduce low frequencies, which is totally wrong, because they can. The fact that you dont feel the impact with your body is pretty obvious, and its the case with all headphones, not just the iems. Even with the bassiest of around the ear headphones, vibrations translated to your skull bones are very low, irrelevant pretty much, mostly totally reflected off, or absorbed trough ear pads.

 

[jant71]

I think I said pretty much the same thing I quoted you in agreement if it wasn't clear. DS21 can't just apply only one meaning to it and disqualifies IEM's.

 

[DS21]

Quote:

 
No offense, but this is probably the most ridiculous claim I've ever read on head-fi, and its a tough competition. Get your self a cheap pair of iem, earbuds, anything, go find a tone generator and play 20 hz trough it, or 25 hz.  As low as you can hear.
 
I can hear the 20 Hz tone more clearly and strongly trough the cheap Sennheiser cx300 than trough any of the full sized headphones, including the T1's which are flat down to that area.

 
You're hearing harmonic overtones, not the fundamental. The KEF M200's are actually a good example of this, because their bass distortion is quite low. You can't really hear anything when playing a 20 or 25Hz tone, which I consider impressively low distortion. A 40Hz tone can be "heard" through them.
 
Also, I never said they couldn't produce them. They all do, at fairly high SPL due to pressure vessel gain. The human auditory system can't perceive them, however. 
 
Quote:

I think I said pretty much the same thing I quoted you in agreement if it wasn't clear. DS21 can't just apply only one meaning to it and disqualifies IEM's.

 
There are lots of witchcraft-like beliefs on head-fi. For example, there is a large contingent of demented electricians who can't see a part without wanting to run new wires through it, who then ascribe magical powers to said wires. This one is slightly different. Human physiology is complex, and the obvious fact that one hears something when playing low tones through an IEM (again, harmonics not fundamental) can trick people who don't have a lot of experience enjoying systems with volume displacement capable of reproducing deep bass fundamental tones. (For the record, my primary home system has five underhung-motor Aurasound bass drivers, with a combined linear volume displacement exceeding 14L.) 

 

[the_thatguy]

Quote:

 
There are lots of witchcraft-like beliefs on head-fi. For example, there is a large contingent of demented electricians who can't see a part without wanting to run new wires through it, who then ascribe magical powers to said wires.

 
Now look at this guy with his bravery..

 

[jant71]

Quote:

 
You're hearing harmonic overtones, not the fundamental. The KEF M200's are actually a good example of this, because their bass distortion is quite low. You can't really hear anything when playing a 20 or 25Hz tone, which I consider impressively low distortion. A 40Hz tone can be "heard" through them.
 
Also, I never said they couldn't produce them. They all do, at fairly high SPL due to pressure vessel gain. The human auditory system can't perceive them, however. 
 
There are lots of witchcraft-like beliefs on head-fi. For example, there is a large contingent of demented electricians who can't see a part without wanting to run new wires through it, who then ascribe magical powers to said wires. This one is slightly different. Human physiology is complex, and the obvious fact that one hears something when playing low tones through an IEM (again, harmonics not fundamental) can trick people who don't have a lot of experience enjoying systems with volume displacement capable of reproducing deep bass fundamental tones. (For the record, my primary home system has five underhung-motor Aurasound bass drivers, with a combined linear volume displacement exceeding 14L.) 

 We use sub-bass, low bass, mid-bass on up for our descriptions and comparisons and always have. It is just not the same type of system. We all know that sub-bass from 8mm drivers is not the same  as 15" subs and we are not saying it is.  We know what the earphones can't do and we don't expect to hear things we really can't. Why argue since there is no argument? I don't think anyone was trying to claim the things you ascribe. Serious Head-fiers always distinguish the limitations of the headphones to speakers and the limitations of earphones to headphones and so on just agreeing on terms and keeping it simple.
 
Sorry to say it isn't that complex. Nice to talk about overtones, harmonics, partials, fundamentals but around here, depending on ears and definitions, one can say earphone sub-bass starts at 50 and I can "hear" something at 40 so the KEF does sub-bass. Just can't get into it so much since you end up writing long posts and threads get off track over semantics and even if not true it starts to sound audiophile snobbish. I think many tune out when it goes to physiology or combined linear volume displacement. Those are more for the sound science and summit-fi sub-forums and less for this audience which tends not to get that much into it.