[derbigpr]

Quote:

 

 
There are lots of witchcraft-like beliefs on head-fi.

 
Dont want to sound cocky, but as a med school student with pretty detailed knowledge of the auditory system and its function,as well as physics behind it, and having spent 4 months on the otorhinolaryngology department in the clinical center as a part of a audiology course, worked with hearing aid devices, I think I know something about it.  I dont use or need withcraft to describe or understand something.  You saying that what I'm hearing while playing a pure 25 hz tone is not the actual tone, because I cant hear it, is irrelevant and in this case totally wrong. If you're going to use that logic, then you're never ever hearing a pure tone, no matter what frequency you're playing trough any sort of headphone or speaker, you're always going to hear something other than the pure tone in addition.  Now, I'm pretty sure I know how to recognize a 25 hz tone, and know exactly what it sounds like. What I hear trough speakers or any full size headphones, I hear trough the earbuds as well.

 

[blueangel2323]

Quote:

 
You're hearing harmonic overtones, not the fundamental. The KEF M200's are actually a good example of this, because their bass distortion is quite low. You can't really hear anything when playing a 20 or 25Hz tone, which I consider impressively low distortion. A 40Hz tone can be "heard" through them.
 
Also, I never said they couldn't produce them. They all do, at fairly high SPL due to pressure vessel gain. The human auditory system can't perceive them, however. 

Have you ever played sine waves through your IEMs using a tone generator? Yes there is distortion if you have a crappy sound card. Yes it's low amplitude compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Yes it's not music. But they are fundamentals, the IEMs can produce it, and we can hear it.

 

[dweaver]

I thought this was an M200/M500 appreciation thread...

Please take the off topic discussions to the appropriate forum/threads.

 

[DS21]

Quote:

 We use sub-bass, low bass, mid-bass on up for our descriptions and comparisons and always have. It is just not the same type of system. We all know that sub-bass from 8mm drivers is not the same  as 15" subs and we are not saying it is.  ***

 
The relevant frequencies are the same regardless of the reproduction device. Furthermore, just as a matter of physics an 8mm driver in a 2cc "room" (i.e. the upper end of the volume of a human ear canal) will produce a whole lot more deep bass than a little 15" woofer in a 4000 cubic foot room!
 
The issue is, again, that the sub-bass frequencies are "heard" through the bones of the face and chest, not the ears!
Quote:

 
Dont want to sound cocky, but as a med school student with pretty detailed knowledge of the auditory system and its function,as well as physics behind it, and having spent 4 months on the otorhinolaryngology department in the clinical center as a part of a audiology course, worked with hearing aid devices, I think I know something about it.  I dont use or need withcraft to describe or understand something.  You saying that what I'm hearing while playing a pure 25 hz tone is not the actual tone, because I cant hear it, is irrelevant and in this case totally wrong. If you're going to use that logic, then you're never ever hearing a pure tone, no matter what frequency you're playing trough any sort of headphone or speaker, you're always going to hear something other than the pure tone in addition.  Now, I'm pretty sure I know how to recognize a 25 hz tone, and know exactly what it sounds like. What I hear trough speakers or any full size headphones, I hear trough the earbuds as well.

 
If you think 25Hz has a "sound" then you need to spend less time in the books and more time listening to low-distortion deep bass before you spout off all half-cocked. Clean 25Hz is a feeling, not a sound.
 
Quote:

Have you ever played sine waves through your IEMs using a tone generator? Yes there is distortion if you have a crappy sound card. Yes it's low amplitude compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Yes it's not music. But they are fundamentals, the IEMs can produce it, and we can hear it.

 
Yes, I have. Including on my KEF M200. I can say the M200 is admirably low in bass distortion (and well-built) because I basically couldn't hear anything playing a 25Hz tone. (That means both that the driver isn't distorting, and the housing, etc. is tight without rattles.)
 
"Sound card" for these observations, FWIW, is a Meridian Explorer feeding a Headroom Micro Amp with Home electronics module from its fixed line-out.

 

[Lorspeaker]

It depends....

 

[dweaver]

The M500 is a bit leaner sounding with slightly more crisp treble. The M200 is a bit more bassy with slightly more warmth in the mids.

 

[Lorspeaker]

go ahead with the m500, i hv a gut feel it is a better buy  

 

[ericp10]

Again, as I told the poster, it's not about which sounds better. Both are excellent. It's about what is your favorite sound signature. Both are in the same family, but they don't have the same sound signature. The M500 is more analytical sounding than the M200. I don't think the M500 is lean sounding at all (there is bass and plenty of it in the headphone). Is it a basshead headphone? No. Does the M200 have more bass? Yes. Does that mean the M500 is lacking bass? No, there is plenty of rich bass inside of that headphone.

 

[Lorspeaker]

the m500 sounded very spacious, airy to me.  looks pretty...stylish. great gear to be seen in

 

[dweaver]

I hear the M500 as lean from my Nokia 920 but I definitely like them both alot.

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

I hear the M500 as lean from my Nokia 920 but I definitely like them both alot.

You need to try another source. And perhaps an amp to really bring out it's potential. It's not lean at all from any of my sources.

 

[robm321]

^ Mine either 

 

[dweaver]

Agreed, from my idevices and computer it's better and it definitely benefits from an amp. But my primary device (Nokia) is in the bright side.

 

[theUKMrT]

What's it to be then folks?... M200 or Philips Fidelio S2?

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

What's it to be then folks?... M200 or Philips Fidelio S2?

 I'm expecting the S2 in any day now. I'll let  you know after I get it and it has a good burn-in.