dogears
Headphoneus Supremus
^I really can't understand where are you guys coming from and what are you trying to accomplish here
Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!
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rawrster
Headphoneus Supremus
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That's only if he is making a profit which is not the case. I have no issues with him not sharing the mods right now but I think eventually he will. He has contributed quite a bit to this site including many of my purchases and I really see an issue here.
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^^^ (a few posts) Oh come on! Don't you guys see it as a challenge?
LFF asked me about this, and I advised him to keep it a secret, at least for now. I know it's a touchy issue, but it's not too different from how I've been keeping the "secrets" of my measurement techniques to myself. Initially, there was a little bit of discomfort thinking that people will take my ideas / inventions and pursue them for purposes of pure profit. I knew that I had something truly unique here with my CSD plots. After some time, I've allowed some details of my measurement rig to leak out. This is because I have a stronger level of comfort that it wouldn't be used for evil. I believe LFF feels the same way.
As for the MOT thing, there aren't really any people knocking on his door. With the 1.5 requests he's received, it would only be enough to pay for the materials and labor at $10 per hour so he could afford to buy a few packages of ramen noodles. I would have no problem if LFF decided he wanted to go MOT, but that hasn't happened it.
Finally, I didn't ask what LFF did, and I'm really not that interested. (I am not the nosey or curious type anyways.) I figure if I can't be creative enough (with play-doh, goo, sticky stuff, absorby stuff) to make something that is awesome, then it must suck to be me. These mods are not rocket science. The real issue is that we need some good objective measurements to see how these mods stack up. Then we can go from there.
I'll be measuring the Fancypants soon. Four more free measurement sessions left.
LFF asked me about this, and I advised him to keep it a secret, at least for now. I know it's a touchy issue, but it's not too different from how I've been keeping the "secrets" of my measurement techniques to myself. Initially, there was a little bit of discomfort thinking that people will take my ideas / inventions and pursue them for purposes of pure profit. I knew that I had something truly unique here with my CSD plots. After some time, I've allowed some details of my measurement rig to leak out. This is because I have a stronger level of comfort that it wouldn't be used for evil. I believe LFF feels the same way.
As for the MOT thing, there aren't really any people knocking on his door. With the 1.5 requests he's received, it would only be enough to pay for the materials and labor at $10 per hour so he could afford to buy a few packages of ramen noodles. I would have no problem if LFF decided he wanted to go MOT, but that hasn't happened it.
Finally, I didn't ask what LFF did, and I'm really not that interested. (I am not the nosey or curious type anyways.) I figure if I can't be creative enough (with play-doh, goo, sticky stuff, absorby stuff) to make something that is awesome, then it must suck to be me. These mods are not rocket science. The real issue is that we need some good objective measurements to see how these mods stack up. Then we can go from there.
I'll be measuring the Fancypants soon. Four more free measurement sessions left.
KneelJung
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My apologies for ruffling some feathers, and I agree LFF has contributed quite a bit. This thread is crazy insane since he showed up. If he wants to keep his mods secret for whatever reason that's his business, but I think leepery and joydivision did raise a very valid point. My point was I've seen this before and while the two situations are completely different, and the two individuals are probably completely different as well, the dynamics of it have certain similarities that I believe are a potential issue. It doesnt really matter in my estimation whether he's making a profit. He's assuming the responsibility for taking in someone else's stuff and receiving a fee for performing a service. Now whether there is profit involved or not I dont know and I doubt you do either. If he messes up somebodys gear though, who pays for that? And if he does end up doing a Bila for whatever reason who pays for that? And what is head fi's position on somebody using the goodwill of their community and the enthusiasm of it's members to use the venue like a marketing tool?
This BTW was a question they never answered in the Bila thread.
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Hi Purrin. I live close by, I'll take one of those measurement slots. I'll PM you to set a date. I'm "this" close to ideal, I think.
rawrster
Headphoneus Supremus
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Ok, to stop the polemic, I will take a shot at guessing your mod LFF based on your comment above. So, per your saying the treatment is unique, it implies it can't be based on some porous material, be it open cell foam or fiber based. It can't be an open rear chamber with some kind of resistive grill (you couldn't possibly manufacturing a grill ala Sennheiser HD800 anyhow
. It can't be adding some ribs to kill some structural resonances, nor can it be apply free or constrained layer damping on the baffle plate and enclosure in general. Man, there's been quite a bit of stuff done for speaker design so it's hard to imagine!But! ... Considering you have probably spent some time in recording studios given your hobby of mastering, I would guess you got inspired by acoustic diffusers. So, my guess is that you're basically cutting pieces of wood in various shapes and gluing them to the wall of the earcup in order to breakup some nasty resonances (and get some bit of additional absorption through scattering of sound waves).
If I guess completely wrong, at least you ought to confirm your treatment is none of the kinds I listed above. Being an acoustic engineer, I have seen my share of acoustic and structural treatments so I am intrigued by your post LFF!
Psilocybe
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Haha, that's a very creative idea--wooden baffles...
Has anyone tried using acoustic foam wall covering, or is that too large to fit in the cups?
Has anyone tried using acoustic foam wall covering, or is that too large to fit in the cups?
LFF
Co-Organizer for Can Jam '09
Member of the Trade: Paradox
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Ok, to stop the polemic, I will take a shot at guessing your mod LFF based on your comment above. So, per your saying the treatment is unique, it implies it can't be based on some porous material, be it open cell foam or fiber based. It can't be an open rear chamber with some kind of resistive grill (you couldn't possibly manufacturing a grill ala Sennheiser HD800 anyhow
But! ... Considering you have probably spent some time in recording studios given your hobby of mastering, I would guess you got inspired by acoustic diffusers. So, my guess is that you're basically cutting pieces of wood in various shapes and gluing them to the wall of the earcup in order to breakup some nasty resonances (and get some bit of additional absorption through scattering of sound waves).
If I guess completely wrong, at least you ought to confirm your treatment is none of the kinds I listed above. Being an acoustic engineer, I have seen my share of acoustic and structural treatments so I am intrigued by your post LFF!
Wow...I'm seriously impressed. Your guess is wrong but your thinking along the right lines and the proposed ideas are something I do want to try. Dogears and I were having this same conversation last night and I encouraged him to try some diffuser ideas I had. Great job Arnaud!
hans030390
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I completely respect your opinion to want to keep your original ideas to yourself, but having followed this thread for a while, it seems as though everyone here is in the game of sharing information simply because they want everyone else to experience their findings without personal gain in mind. While everyone is out there sharing their wonderful findings, you are very adamant that your mods are "end-game" quality and continuously tease us with these claims without really saying whether or not you plan on sharing them. Sure, you mention you'd be willing to do them for a price, but I don't think that's the vibe of what this thread is going for. It would be different if everyone was tight-lipped about their mods and asked for money if you wanted any information or the mods done.
That, and usually on Head-Fi, people tend to freely give information while offering services for a price. We've been told how to make Thunderpants, but some people simply can't or don't want to do it themselves. So, Smeggy offers his services. We've been given the Markl mod. If we didn't want to do it ourselves, those services are offered. That's what I love about Head-Fi. This isn't about self-entitlement. It's not like you owe this information to anyone. This is just what the community thrives off of. At least, that was MY impression...
Granted, I understand Smeggy and Mark might not give out ALL the details of how they do things. I believe Mark mods the D2000/5000/7000 slightly differently (according to his site). He keeps the fine details quiet, but does give the general details for his mods. I think that trade-off is more than fair.
Even then, if you mod someone's headphones, your information will eventually get out one way or another (unless you have legal protection on your side, which I'd guess is pretty rare for headphone modifications). I'm sure if Coca Cola's formula was easily able to be reverse engineered, it would be out there in the wild (if it isn't already). But the average person can't reverse engineer Coca Cola, and I'm sure the company has an ungodly amount of legal protection on their products and formulas. That, and in these types of markets, information isn't generally given for free. But this is Head-Fi...And yes, it is different.
Also, I doubt you're the only one that has come up with original ideas for modding the T50RP. Perhaps your mods really are that unique...I have no idea, because you've given no details. But I see a lot of interesting, fresh ideas in here, so I don't think the claim of "originality" has weight in these types of arguments. Really, though, we can't know because you won't share anything. You can say your ideas are super original, but that means nothing unless you show proof. Even then, if they really are THAT original, you could probably share them AND still get just as many customers as you would have otherwise. So far, though, everything shown here is all pretty easy DIY material, even with original ideas. Generally, simple things that anyone can do, even if original, only sell if someone is really too lazy to do it themselves (such as cooking a meal).
Anyway, as I've said, I respect that you want to keep your ideas to yourself. I don't mean this as a personal attack, because I understand where you're coming from and definitely sympathize with you. I am simply giving you my perspective on the matter in hopes that maybe you will better understand where some of this aggression is coming from in other members. If any of my post seems like a personal attack, then I apologize for that. I'm not always the best at wording (or, as I like to say, "sugar-coating" my words).
One thing that really does aggravate me, though, is when people parade something around, don't really give straight answers on what they ultimately plan on doing with it, and then lash out with, "Well, now I'm just not going to let you have it at all!" when someone calls them out on it. In this case, you claim your mods are "end-game", don't really say whether or not you're going to share them (instead mentioning that you might do it for a price), and then respond with the "Well I WAS thinking I'd give this to you, but now I'm not at all!" when someone points out that "Hey, I feel like this goes against the nature of this thread and Head-Fi in general". Personally, this teasing and then yanking things back is...immature. I'm sorry if that offends you, really, but that's how it is. I feel like these people have legitimate opinions that you should be understanding of (as I believe they should be understanding of you). That type of attitude has a strong possibility of losing potential customers...
Enough of that, though. You've done a lot for the Head-Fi community, and I'm glad you've found such a good mod for the T50RPs. I hope that you'll still consider sharing more information on these mods down the road. You would make a bunch of people very, very happy. While I might not necessarily 100% agree with your practices in this particular thread, I can't help but recognize and thank you for everything you've done for the community.
I completely respect your opinion to want to keep your original ideas to yourself, but having followed this thread for a while, it seems as though everyone here is in the game of sharing information simply because they want everyone else to experience their findings without personal gain in mind. While everyone is out there sharing their wonderful findings, you are very adamant that your mods are "end-game" quality and continuously tease us with these claims without really saying whether or not you plan on sharing them. Sure, you mention you'd be willing to do them for a price, but I don't think that's the vibe of what this thread is going for. It would be different if everyone was tight-lipped about their mods and asked for money if you wanted any information or the mods done.
That, and usually on Head-Fi, people tend to freely give information while offering services for a price. We've been told how to make Thunderpants, but some people simply can't or don't want to do it themselves. So, Smeggy offers his services. We've been given the Markl mod. If we didn't want to do it ourselves, those services are offered. That's what I love about Head-Fi. This isn't about self-entitlement. It's not like you owe this information to anyone. This is just what the community thrives off of. At least, that was MY impression...
Granted, I understand Smeggy and Mark might not give out ALL the details of how they do things. I believe Mark mods the D2000/5000/7000 slightly differently (according to his site). He keeps the fine details quiet, but does give the general details for his mods. I think that trade-off is more than fair.
Even then, if you mod someone's headphones, your information will eventually get out one way or another (unless you have legal protection on your side, which I'd guess is pretty rare for headphone modifications). I'm sure if Coca Cola's formula was easily able to be reverse engineered, it would be out there in the wild (if it isn't already). But the average person can't reverse engineer Coca Cola, and I'm sure the company has an ungodly amount of legal protection on their products and formulas. That, and in these types of markets, information isn't generally given for free. But this is Head-Fi...And yes, it is different.
Also, I doubt you're the only one that has come up with original ideas for modding the T50RP. Perhaps your mods really are that unique...I have no idea, because you've given no details. But I see a lot of interesting, fresh ideas in here, so I don't think the claim of "originality" has weight in these types of arguments. Really, though, we can't know because you won't share anything. You can say your ideas are super original, but that means nothing unless you show proof. Even then, if they really are THAT original, you could probably share them AND still get just as many customers as you would have otherwise. So far, though, everything shown here is all pretty easy DIY material, even with original ideas. Generally, simple things that anyone can do, even if original, only sell if someone is really too lazy to do it themselves (such as cooking a meal).
Anyway, as I've said, I respect that you want to keep your ideas to yourself. I don't mean this as a personal attack, because I understand where you're coming from and definitely sympathize with you. I am simply giving you my perspective on the matter in hopes that maybe you will better understand where some of this aggression is coming from in other members. If any of my post seems like a personal attack, then I apologize for that. I'm not always the best at wording (or, as I like to say, "sugar-coating" my words).
One thing that really does aggravate me, though, is when people parade something around, don't really give straight answers on what they ultimately plan on doing with it, and then lash out with, "Well, now I'm just not going to let you have it at all!" when someone calls them out on it. In this case, you claim your mods are "end-game", don't really say whether or not you're going to share them (instead mentioning that you might do it for a price), and then respond with the "Well I WAS thinking I'd give this to you, but now I'm not at all!" when someone points out that "Hey, I feel like this goes against the nature of this thread and Head-Fi in general". Personally, this teasing and then yanking things back is...immature. I'm sorry if that offends you, really, but that's how it is. I feel like these people have legitimate opinions that you should be understanding of (as I believe they should be understanding of you). That type of attitude has a strong possibility of losing potential customers...
Enough of that, though. You've done a lot for the Head-Fi community, and I'm glad you've found such a good mod for the T50RPs. I hope that you'll still consider sharing more information on these mods down the road. You would make a bunch of people very, very happy. While I might not necessarily 100% agree with your practices in this particular thread, I can't help but recognize and thank you for everything you've done for the community.
LFF
Co-Organizer for Can Jam '09
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Your post is really most appreciated despite the conflicting view points expressed within. I appreciate it because it has made me think quite a bit. Your wording is delicate and should be commended but it still gets a point across and that point really pisses me off.
Now...I am honestly fed up with this crap. I have shared every single mod I have done EXCEPT for one. That's right...ONE mod inside the cup. That's the fine detail of my mod and the one I wish to keep. It's so unique that I could probably get a patent on it. If smeggy, markl, and others are entitled to keep their "fine details", then allow me to keep my ONE fine detail. The general details I don't need to give out because a few of you have already figured out what the problems are to fix!
True, you could probably reverse engineer this mod by cracking open my headphones but I won't be allowing that. Numerous people have PM'd me regarding the Paradox mods and despite that, I have only agreed to mod 1 headphone. Everyone else is still up in the air about it and that's where it will stay for the near future.
I have mentioned many times that this is an endgame for me. I can essentially decide to leave head-fi right now, with quite a send off I might add, and never come back again and be as happy as a cow chewing on a cud while I beat my feet on the Mississippi mud. (hehe...old song reference)
If you want a straight answer, then how about this:
I will not, repeat NOT, be releasing my mod at all now simply because I do not want certain individuals benefiting from my years of experience and ideas. I will also not be modding any other headphones aside from the 1 that I have agreed to mod. This should restore harmony back to this thread as it essentially puts it back it to where it was before I came in with the added benefit of the few things I shared.
At least you guys know what the T50RP is capable of. You now know that the midrange can be fixed. You know how to make them comfortable and how to get a proper seal. Let those be my contributions to this thread and community. I think this will be my last post on this thread as I am seriously fed up with this sense of entitlement regardless of how it's worded. For the friends I have made here, feel free to PM if you need any help.
Good luck and Godspeed to all of you.
Downtheline1973
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Hey LFF, I have a spare new (unmodded) T50rp I can give you. In return you can give me the one you are waiting for when it gets to you.... that is if you don't leave the thread!!
I appreciate your contributions here...
I'm in La Jolla
micmacmo
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wdahm519
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I've got a question for those of you who have been lucky enough to be in an area where you can audition LCD-2's and HE-500's. Or, for those of you who own them.
Does the modified T50RP resemble a sound signature more like the LCD-2 or the HE-500? I'm going to sell all my other headphones and I'm thinking about taking that money and buying an HE-500 or an LCD-2 for fun.
Let me know please!
Does the modified T50RP resemble a sound signature more like the LCD-2 or the HE-500? I'm going to sell all my other headphones and I'm thinking about taking that money and buying an HE-500 or an LCD-2 for fun.
Let me know please!
hans030390
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Again, I'm fine with you keeping it to yourself. However, you are not keeping the "fine details" from us. There is a key difference between what you've given and what people like Smeggy and Markl have given. They gave us their main information and findings of their mods. They keep the "fine details" to themselves. For example, Markl has his entire dampening procedures laid out for all. However, he might use different materials for the different models in the Dx000 line. Those are the "fine details" he keeps secret. You have done the opposite. You have provided us "fine details" such as the suspension headband and earpad modifications. You keep the general part of your mod to yourself. I'm not saying that's BAD. I'm just saying there is a very clear distinction, and I think that distinction is what drives the Head-Fi community. But, in and of itself, keeping the idea to yourself really is neither good or bad. That's just your choice, but I hope you can see why some people would think this goes against the essence of Head-Fi and thus start flipping out (thank you, internet).
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's almost as if you are throwing some of us scraps (good scraps, at that) while dangling the full course meal above our heads (which is enclosed in a box that reads "I won't tell you what's in here, but WOW is it good"). Then you say, "Why are you complaining? I've given you so many other things!" Of course, this is only applicable to this thread. I am not speaking of all of your modding activity (which, to be honest, I am not very familiar with). Again, I apologize if that sounds harsh...that is just my understanding of the situation, and it was the only analogy that came to mind. I am only saying that so that maybe you better understand where some people are coming from, as I get the sense that you aren't entirely seeing it from their perspective (just as they aren't seeing yours, which I touch on in the last paragraph here). I'm not saying it to insult you or upset you.
You really would rather not share your apparently amazing idea with the community simply because a few folks on the internet are too aggressive and not understanding/patient enough? You let a few people stand in your way of benefiting a large community? You use the word "benefit" more as if we would be taking advantage of your discoveries. The only benefit people will get from your mod is potential audio bliss. Considering that seems to be what everyone is striving for on Head-Fi, is that really a bad thing? (Note that I did not specify here whether it would be sharing your findings or offering modding services)
Granted, if your mod really is so unique that it could be patented, then I think you have every right to keep that secret regardless of any previous things you've done in the community. I would even encourage the idea of offering your modding services (even for profit) in that case. The problem is, I think many people feel you weren't very clear about that from the start. In your secrecy, there was extreme vagueness. How can we really know what's going on? For example, saying, "My mod doesn't use any of the techniques from here." doesn't prove that your mod is THAT unique. For all we know, you filled the cups up with cheese. It is entirely possible to explain to and convince people that you have good reason to keep the mod to yourself (while likely providing modding services) without giving away the actual details of the mod. Again, you had been rather vague and not clear about your plans. No one really knew what was going on. At least, I know I didn't, and I've been keeping up with this since you started posting on the T50RP. If you still hadn't figured out whether you wanted to share the mod or not (or offer services), it probably is best to not post at all. With this sense of vagueness about everything, what can you really expect?
Again, I'm fine with you keeping it to yourself. However, you are not keeping the "fine details" from us. There is a key difference between what you've given and what people like Smeggy and Markl have given. They gave us their main information and findings of their mods. They keep the "fine details" to themselves. For example, Markl has his entire dampening procedures laid out for all. However, he might use different materials for the different models in the Dx000 line. Those are the "fine details" he keeps secret. You have done the opposite. You have provided us "fine details" such as the suspension headband and earpad modifications. You keep the general part of your mod to yourself. I'm not saying that's BAD. I'm just saying there is a very clear distinction, and I think that distinction is what drives the Head-Fi community. But, in and of itself, keeping the idea to yourself really is neither good or bad. That's just your choice, but I hope you can see why some people would think this goes against the essence of Head-Fi and thus start flipping out (thank you, internet).
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's almost as if you are throwing some of us scraps (good scraps, at that) while dangling the full course meal above our heads (which is enclosed in a box that reads "I won't tell you what's in here, but WOW is it good"). Then you say, "Why are you complaining? I've given you so many other things!" Of course, this is only applicable to this thread. I am not speaking of all of your modding activity (which, to be honest, I am not very familiar with). Again, I apologize if that sounds harsh...that is just my understanding of the situation, and it was the only analogy that came to mind. I am only saying that so that maybe you better understand where some people are coming from, as I get the sense that you aren't entirely seeing it from their perspective (just as they aren't seeing yours, which I touch on in the last paragraph here). I'm not saying it to insult you or upset you.
You really would rather not share your apparently amazing idea with the community simply because a few folks on the internet are too aggressive and not understanding/patient enough? You let a few people stand in your way of benefiting a large community? You use the word "benefit" more as if we would be taking advantage of your discoveries. The only benefit people will get from your mod is potential audio bliss. Considering that seems to be what everyone is striving for on Head-Fi, is that really a bad thing? (Note that I did not specify here whether it would be sharing your findings or offering modding services)
Granted, if your mod really is so unique that it could be patented, then I think you have every right to keep that secret regardless of any previous things you've done in the community. I would even encourage the idea of offering your modding services (even for profit) in that case. The problem is, I think many people feel you weren't very clear about that from the start. In your secrecy, there was extreme vagueness. How can we really know what's going on? For example, saying, "My mod doesn't use any of the techniques from here." doesn't prove that your mod is THAT unique. For all we know, you filled the cups up with cheese. It is entirely possible to explain to and convince people that you have good reason to keep the mod to yourself (while likely providing modding services) without giving away the actual details of the mod. Again, you had been rather vague and not clear about your plans. No one really knew what was going on. At least, I know I didn't, and I've been keeping up with this since you started posting on the T50RP. If you still hadn't figured out whether you wanted to share the mod or not (or offer services), it probably is best to not post at all. With this sense of vagueness about everything, what can you really expect?
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