Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW!

[mrspeakers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
DIY FTW!
Seems like Mr.Speakers is really making you guys wait for it....

 

Not as long as you are... 

 
But, I have been working on three sets of phones with different materials/tweeks, using three different pads.  It's a lot of permutations to test, and life has kind of gotten in the way of doing it as thoroughly as I'd like.  I'm very happy with the outcome, but I want more listening time to make sure I'm truly happy and not suffering designers' infatuation.  
 
I hope people will find it is worth the wait.  
 

 

[FlySweep]

I took the "craft felt" off the driver backing tonight & stuck 3 layers of 3M gentle paper in it's place.  I really like what I'm hearing.
 
What I noticed right away is that the massive bass slam is gone.  There is still excellent extension and punch, but the volume of bass is a far cry from what I heard with the craft felt.  The bass is much tighter, nearly armature-like in nature.  Back came the airy, clean mids and super crisp, detailed treble.  There is ton of energy from the midrange all the way up to through the treble.. I'm perceiving a slight upper midrange spike as a result of the brighter sound.  I'm also now able to hear how closing all the vents results in the bass "disappearing."  I've cut slits in all four slots on both cups to increase bass impact and it's working well.. but the bass isn't nearly as textured as it was with the craft felt.
 
They sound much closer to stock form.. but with the cup resonance fully attenuated.  I'm going to experiment with adding more layers of this 3M tape.  If there is anything to take away from all this, it's that there is material available as a replacement for the stock "white felt/paper" for those who had mangled it beyond repair/reuse in the process of removing it.

 

[LFF]

What do you guys think of this mock-up?:
 

 
Throwing some ideas out for my next pair.....

 

[FlySweep]

What do you guys think of this mock-up?:
 

 
Throwing some ideas out for my next pair.....

 
I'm digging the artwork along the paneling.
 

 

[dogears]

And I was thinking of using:

But it will be too much work.
Go LFF! Make your PPP --- ParadoxPhoenixProud!

 

[Cortlendt]

Thanks everyone for the comments on materials I have.
 
I've also got some silicon reflex dots for furniture, 1.7mm diameter. I'm hoping they re not too big.
 
Even found some thick 2mm felt, I think I have everything I need.
 
Also I intend to cannibalize my broken Philips HP890 for the headband and maybe pads.

 

 

[FlySweep]

 

 

 

 
Ladies & gentlemen, I've hit the T50RP's proverbial G SPOT.  Mod to Rastapants specs except for these changes:
 
-3 layers of 3M "gentle paper" tape across the back of the driver instead of the craft felt (the 3M tape can be found at your supermarket/drug store.. check in health/first aid section, I posted the amazon like a few posts back).
-Use the "stiff" 2mm, craft felt (per Rastapants spec) to cover the cup vents fully from the inside.
-I recommend lining the interior of the cups as thoroughly as possible (see my pics a number of pages back).  Except for the vents.. which are t obe lined with the craft felt.
 
Everything I've complained about these phones, ad nauseum, has been effectively neutralized.  EVERYTHING.  What do they sound like?  A whole lotta AWESOME.  That's what.
 
It's interesting that most iterations of this phone have resulted in a smoother, slightly warm signature.  What I have in my hands is a supremely balanced T50RP with a slightly brighter touch.  The bass extends deep, has excellent punch, texture, while possessing speed & control that rivals anything I've heard.  The midrange is lush, lively and the tonal balance is seriously eye popping.  There is a a hint of warmth through the midrange to keep listener fatigue to down.  The treble may be the most surprising aspect of these phones after doing the mods above.  I never though the T50RP was capable of this kind of treble, honestly.  Infinitely crisp, detailed, and extended.  The sparkle will make your jaw drop.
 
Listening to some really well mastered smooth jazz (i.e. Paul Hardcastle's "Jazzmaster V").. I'm transported to some blissful locale in space.  No left, no right.. the music simply surrounds you.  I've said it before, I'll say it again: the immersion these provide is unrivaled.
 
If I had you listen to these vs the T50RPs I had with the craft felt for the driver backing.. you would slap me when I told you they were the same phone.  The number of ways this phone can be tuned is simply mind-boggling.
 
Oh, and get the damn O2 pads.. sell your cat, mow your neighbor's lawn.. whatever you gotta do to pick up the funds, do it.. just buy them.  I don't know how essential they are to getting the sound I'm describing above with my mods but they damn sure wouldn't hurt.
 
PS.  I need a cigarette.  

 

 

[dogears]

^Dammit. I will either do that to my unit now or I'll do it when my other pair comes... Dammit, I'll do it tomorrow!
Thanks a bunch chief!

 

[LFF]

Quote:

 

 

 

 
Ladies & gentlemen, I've hit the T50RP's proverbial G SPOT.  Mod to Rastapants specs except for these changes:
 
<SNIP>
 
PS.  I need a cigarette.  

 

Sounds like you hit Paradox level...

 

 

[FlySweep]

^Dammit. I will either do that to my unit now or I'll do it when my other pair comes... Dammit, I'll do it tomorrow!
Thanks a bunch chief!

Good luck bud.. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.  Let us know how it turns out!
 

Sounds like you hit Paradox level...

I hope so.. if I haven't.. I've got a feeling these phones were sent back from the future to destroy reality.  They're that amazing.  If I actually pry them off my head, I should send them to you so a real audiophile can vet them.  

  I'm even more curious to hear the infamous Paradox phones now.. might have to get a second pair for you to mod once the LFF "Paradox chop shop" goes live.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I hope so.. if I haven't.. I've got a feeling these phones were sent back from the future to destroy reality.  They're that amazing.  If I actually pry them off my head, I should send them to you so a real audiophile can vet them. 

  I'm even more curious to hear the infamous Paradox phones now.. might have to get a second pair for you to mod once the LFF "Paradox chop shop" goes live.

Hey...if you're happy with them then that is all that matters. If you want to vet them, there is only one way....send them to Purrin for objective and subjective impressions.
 
It's a shame that not many people have commented on my Paradox headphones. At least 20 people have heard them.....
 
If you do get that second, I'm always willing to give them the Paradox treatment.
 

 

[dogears]

True. I am interested to do it and hear what's the difference. As mentioned, mine already sounds better than my EM3s on certain aspects like bass. Let's see how it goes tomorrow, I already bought the 3M tape. And I don't think there should be a diff on what's used on the vent as long as its sealed tight?
 
Quote:

Hey...if you're happy with them then that is all that matters

 

 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

That is what I was trying to accomplish last night - to find a good substitute for the white driver felt.  My test failed.  I am happy to hear you achieved good results using 3 layers of paper tape.  Oddly, I used only 1 layer of paper tape over the backs of the naked drivers and all I got was tin can alley sound.  I figured the glue on the paper tape essentially rendered it impermeable, or non-breathable, and resulted in constricted, poor sound quality.  I glued the stock white driver felt in place and all was good, again.  
 
I could not tell any visible difference between generic and name brand paper tape so I went with the generic brand.  I suppose there could be a permeable difference not discernible to the naked eye so I'll stop by the drug store and buy some 3M NexCare paper tape for repeating the test.
 
FWIW, I found that 1 layer of craft felt OR 1 to 3 layers of Organdi over the naked drivers produce the same massive bass slam and bleed-over into the mid-range that you describe.  It sounds like you have found a viable substitute for the stock white driver felt.  Way to Go, FlySweep!
 
Quote:

I took the "craft felt" off the driver backing tonight & stuck 3 layers of 3M gentle paper in it's place.  I really like what I'm hearing.
 
What I noticed right away is that the massive bass slam is gone.  There is still excellent extension and punch, but the volume of bass is a far cry from what I heard with the craft felt.  The bass is much tighter, nearly armature-like in nature.  Back came the airy, clean mids and super crisp, detailed treble.  There is ton of energy from the midrange all the way up to through the treble.. I'm perceiving a slight upper midrange spike as a result of the brighter sound.  I'm also now able to hear how closing all the vents results in the bass "disappearing."  I've cut slits in all four slots on both cups to increase bass impact and it's working well.. but the bass isn't nearly as textured as it was with the craft felt.
 
They sound much closer to stock form.. but with the cup resonance fully attenuated.  I'm going to experiment with adding more layers of this 3M tape.  If there is anything to take away from all this, it's that there is material available as a replacement for the stock "white felt/paper" for those who had mangled it beyond repair/reuse in the process of removing it.

 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

FlySweep,
 
Are these your mods?
 
1.  1 layer of Paxmate or Silverstone (4 mm thick) neatly applied to the entire inner cup surfaces.
2.  Stiff, 2 mm craft felt over the interior bass port vents (after removing the stock black felt).
3.  3 layers of 3M NexCare paper tape on the backs of the drivers (after removing the stock white driver felt).
4.  Plasticine in the baffles.
5.  Stax O2 ear pads
 
If this is correct and if 3 layers of 3M paper tape equates to the stock white driver felt, then the variables I need to test are whether or not there is a difference between the stock black bass port felt vs. stiff 2 mm craft felt on the bass ports, ear pad "rolling", and add more Paxmate to cover any exposed areas in my cups.
 
 
Quote:

 

 

 

 
Ladies & gentlemen, I've hit the T50RP's proverbial G SPOT.  Mod to Rastapants specs except for these changes:
 
-3 layers of 3M "gentle paper" tape across the back of the driver instead of the craft felt (the 3M tape can be found at your supermarket/drug store.. check in health/first aid section, I posted the amazon like a few posts back).
-Use the "stiff" 2mm, craft felt (per Rastapants spec) to cover the cup vents fully from the inside.
-I recommend lining the interior of the cups as thoroughly as possible (see my pics a number of pages back).  Except for the vents.. which are t obe lined with the craft felt.
 
Everything I've complained about these phones, ad nauseum, has been effectively neutralized.  EVERYTHING.  What do they sound like?  A whole lotta AWESOME.  That's what.
 
It's interesting that most iterations of this phone have resulted in a smoother, slightly warm signature.  What I have in my hands is a supremely balanced T50RP with a slightly brighter touch.  The bass extends deep, has excellent punch, texture, while possessing speed & control that rivals anything I've heard.  The midrange is lush, lively and the tonal balance is seriously eye popping.  There is a a hint of warmth through the midrange to keep listener fatigue to down.  The treble may be the most surprising aspect of these phones after doing the mods above.  I never though the T50RP was capable of this kind of treble, honestly.  Infinitely crisp, detailed, and extended.  The sparkle will make your jaw drop.
 
Listening to some really well mastered smooth jazz (i.e. Paul Hardcastle's "Jazzmaster V").. I'm transported to some blissful locale in space.  No left, no right.. the music simply surrounds you.  I've said it before, I'll say it again: the immersion these provide is unrivaled.
 
If I had you listen to these vs the T50RPs I had with the craft felt for the driver backing.. you would slap me when I told you they were the same phone.  The number of ways this phone can be tuned is simply mind-boggling.
 
Oh, and get the damn O2 pads.. sell your cat, mow your neighbor's lawn.. whatever you gotta do to pick up the funds, do it.. just buy them.  I don't know how essential they are to getting the sound I'm describing above with my mods but they damn sure wouldn't hurt.
 
PS.  I need a cigarette.  

 

 

 

[AnotherN00b]

JoelPierce and others did a lot of experimenting with transpore and micropore tape on the back of the driver about a year ago and it was pretty much rejected as a failure from what I recall. That's why a lot of us are still gun shy about removing the stock white material until mrspeakers' rastapants mod championed that approach. I was getting ready to make my plunge soon (waiting for the LFF and latest mrspeakers variations) but now I'm hesitant again after all your (BMF) trials and conclusion that the stock material has the best overall SQ. So confusing!!
 
Quote:

What did not work:
 
I thought I had a brainstorm but it turned out to be a little squall.
 
I stopped by the drug store and looked for 3M Micropore and Transpore tape.  They didn't have any so I bought some paper tape made for bandages.  It looked a little bit thinner than the stock white driver felt.  I applied one layer on the driver backs, glued it down to the grid, and let it dry.  Result?  Sounded like a tin can or a cheap transistor radio.
 
I pulled it off and scratched my head.  O.K., put the white driver felt back on.  I'm glad I saved it.