[majedelamine]

  I am pretty sure most off the top companies have there own proprietary drivers made just for them and there not a shelf item. And seeing the serial numbers on the ba's aren't ones someone can just buy from Knowles or Sonion. JH has drivers built to there specs.

Yes, propietary serial numbers is all they get from Knowles.  The sepcs that Jerry talks about that are given to Knowles are related to size, impedance, frequency range. This does not mean that they know how to get inside a BA and design it differently. I am not saying that the BAs in Layla are not different, I am saying there is nothing out their in the market that says going back to the same supplier of BAs, and putting the same number of BAs with the same confuguration (4 low 4 mid 4 high) would warrant a step forward in the IEM. It warrants a change in identity with no clear link to value.

 

[warrenpchi]

 

This is where your wife starts posting here, complaining that you said she'd be your flagship wife.  

  

 
Oh she has it all, she is beautiful, sounds wonderful and cost me close to nothing... Layla cannot compete

 
You're a lucky man Mim, happy holidays to both you and Mrs. Mimouille!  

  And happy holidays to everyone!

 

[Mimouille]

You're a lucky man Mim, happy holidays to both you and Mrs. Mimouille!     And happy holidays to everyone!

Happy Holidays to you Warren and even to the people at JH, particularly Sue Reagan, the most helpful of their team IMO.

 

[tumburu]

Finally, flat headphones! It was about time.
 
As many here I'm wondering how big the difference is between the flagship and the affordable version. It's not 100% clear to me at this point if Angie is voiced flat or slightly colored.

 

[w3ird0l0l]

looking forward to try out angie. wonder will it be available in Singapore or not. 

 

[goodvibes]

  Yes, propietary serial numbers is all they get from Knowles.  The sepcs that Jerry talks about that are given to Knowles are related to size, impedance, frequency range. This does not mean that they know how to get inside a BA and design it differently. I am not saying that the BAs in Layla are not different, I am saying there is nothing out their in the market that says going back to the same supplier of BAs, and putting the same number of BAs with the same confuguration (4 low 4 mid 4 high) would warrant a step forward in the IEM. It warrants a change in identity with no clear link to value.

They can be made more specialized and better for a purpose. It's basic physics, more Magnetic force and lighter moving parts will increase transient response and high frequency bandwidth if inductance can be kept at bay.. It can be done at the expense of another variable like low extension which is not an issue in a 3 way. Same for bass drivers being made more massive or not worrying as much about out of band non linearity in a mid driver with a steep slope. I'm sure they're always looking for greater force with less inductance. There's nothing that new under the sun but there are some real advantages to be had and companies like Knowles and Sonion are more easily persuaded to do something more than swapping motor parts for companies like JH. In fact some of these drivers may have been developed along with makers like JHA and be relatively exclusive with only derivatives becoming available to others. 

 

[truckdriver]

   
Don’t take this personal, I have been exactly following this up. However not all people believe in the exaggerated words of marketing. RIght where I live there is a big billboard that says :"The All new BMW X6". Do you seriously believe it is all-new? You may believe if you never worked in R&D before. But myself coming from that background I know that when they say the drivers are different they simply mean nothing. Balanced Armature has been in the market for a long long time, and if a new idea is out there that changes the driver's efficiency it would have been used by all. Especially knowing that JH audio do not have proprietary BAs. Their strength is in arranging the BAs and the connections. As for the crossover, and myself being an electronics engineer, you dont start from scratch. The new crossover is of the 4th order, meaning the filtering slope is steeper than the previous ones, thats the difference and you get this difference by adding an extra filtering transistor integrated circuit in series, which in my opinion makes the crossover IC too complicated for an audio use. Such filters are needed when you are assuring long distance transmission, thus making sure you are cutting down any interference with other frequency bands, however doing such a level of crossover filtering then shooting them together into your ear canal is simply an acrobatic stunt with no real effect other than show off. and by the way forth order filtering and crossovers is as old as the transistor and I don’t think it was simply missed out in the mind other people doing crossovers. It is obvious that JHA was squeezing any possible upgrade on Roxanne to try and differentiate their new flagship, but it is not convincing for the Audio parts, except if you like flatter tuning

 
I don't pretend to understand the technical stuff, but I've always had suspicions about marketing as it relates to reality.
 
But hey, this is an entertaining thread and new products are always good. Buying or not is an individual choice.

 

[M-13]

I'm curious about this fourth order crossover talk. Not sure what all that means but sounds nice. Haha. I'm surprised JH doesn't update the Roxanne to have the stainless steel tube wave guiders as well. I guess people would really riot of the Roxanne got an update.

 

[Malevolent]

  Finally, flat headphones! It was about time.
 
As many here I'm wondering how big the difference is between the flagship and the affordable version. It's not 100% clear to me at this point if Angie is voiced flat or slightly colored.

 
I doubt they'll be flat, or as flat as they are marketed to be. JHA IEMs are usually colored, some aggressively so. I'm sure the Layla is tuned to be way more neutral than many of their previous offerings, though. I'd expect a bit of warmth with them. That'll be a great sound.
 

  looking forward to try out angie. wonder will it be available in Singapore or not. 

 
Yeah, I'm sure Jaben will not miss an opportunity to sell more JHA earphones to the willing masses.

 Angie might be quite a big hit.

 

[goodvibes]

What's flat? Do you think etymotics sound flat, natural or normal like free space? I like them but don't feel that way about them. I doubt that there can be a perfect IEM and the amount of deviation I hear with a cable change on the units that have close to neutral sigs makes me question how high the performance ceiling can actually be with a DAP as source.

 

[tumburu]

  I'm curious about this fourth order crossover talk. Not sure what all that means but sounds nice. Haha. I'm surprised JH doesn't update the Roxanne to have the stainless steel tube wave guiders as well. I guess people would really riot of the Roxanne got an update.

 
It's a steeper one, so the drivers would interact less in the crossover area leading to a more controlled sound.

   
I doubt they'll be flat, or as flat as they are marketed to be. JHA IEMs are usually colored, some aggressively so. I'm sure the Layla is tuned to be way more neutral than many of their previous offerings, though. I'd expect a bit of warmth with them. That'll be a great sound.
 
 
Yeah, I'm sure Jaben will not miss an opportunity to sell more JHA earphones to the willing masses.

 Angie might be quite a big hit.

 
 

  What's flat? Do you think etymotics sound flat, natural or normal like free space? I like them but don't feel that way about them. I doubt that there can be a perfect IEM and the amount of deviation I hear with a cable change on the units that have close to neutral sigs makes me question how high the performance ceiling can actually be with a DAP as source.

 
Never heard the Etymotics but comparing the graphs of those and other ones that I have plus what I generally get around head-fi,  I think they are rather mid centric. IMO the term 'neutral' used around here describes a rather mid focused sound. 'Flat' is a term rather used by audio engineers and not that much by hi-fi enthusiasts, but by flat I mean that 40Hz will sound as loud as 400Hz and 4kHz, as well as 14kHz. So it should be equally powerful in all registers/across the spectrum. Sure, headphones are indeed tricky to measure flat because of the different methods of measurement. Anyway, I personally am excited simply because they said they want to take the perspective of an audio engineer mixing on flat speakers and put that kind of response into an IEM. Being myself one of those engineers, and being used to work with that kind of tools, that's all I'm asking in a headphone because I'm a bit tired of equalizing all my phones in order to sound the way they should in the first place. 
 
Hoping for no more spikes and dips...

 

[warrenpchi]

 

  What's flat? Do you think etymotics sound flat, natural or normal like free space? I like them but don't feel that way about them. I doubt that there can be a perfect IEM and the amount of deviation I hear with a cable change on the units that have close to neutral sigs makes me question how high the performance ceiling can actually be with a DAP as source.

 
Never heard the Etymotics but comparing the graphs of those and other ones that I have plus what I generally get around head-fi,  I think they are rather mid centric. IMO the term 'neutral' used around here describes a rather mid focused sound. 'Flat' is a term rather used by audio engineers and not that much by hi-fi enthusiasts, but by flat I mean that 40Hz will sound as loud as 400Hz and 4kHz, as well as 14kHz. So it should be equally powerful in all registers/across the spectrum. Sure, headphones are indeed tricky to measure flat because of the different methods of measurement. Anyway, I personally am excited simply because they said they want to take the perspective of an audio engineer mixing on flat speakers and put that kind of response into an IEM. Being myself one of those engineers, and being used to work with that kind of tools, that's all I'm asking in a headphone because I'm a bit tired of equalizing all my phones in order to sound the way they should in the first place. 

 
I tend to agree about Etymotics, especially with regard to the ER-4 series, and the ER-4PT in particular.  I consider it to be mid-centric as well.  And though I might apply the term neutral to its mid-range presentation, I would hesitate to call the ER-4PT outright neutral across the board (even if I can understand why others would).  And no, I would not call the ER-4PT "flat".  To my ears, the Noble 4 and the ever humble RE-400 are "flatter" in some ways/areas.
 
With regards to neutrality...the UERM has been, and continues to be my benchmark - at least until I can A/B it against the Layla (and even the Angie) in better-controlled conditions here.  FWIW, I personally consider the UERM to remarkably neutral, though again I would not call it flat as I find it just a tad warmer than I like - especially when running balanced via A&K players.  Actually, now that I think about it, even UE doesn't refer to it being flat. invoking the term "perceived flat" instead.
 
In any case, this all ties in to why I am so excited about field testing the Layla and putting it through it's paces, because what I heard in my initial audition was about as flat as I've ever heard in an IEM thus far.
 

 
Hoping for no more spikes and dips...

 
We can but dream... 

 

 

[goodvibes]

That's just it, I don't find them mid centric, just a bit lacking in weight. I find the Noble a VG IEM but also a little HF enhanced. Kind of the point of my original post. It's difficult to come to any consensus when in ear measurements have to be weighted and any weighting standard could be argued and perhaps not universal as ear geometry and insertion will vary.

 

[robm321]

I don't find the Ety ER4S mid-centric at all. The highs are at least as upfront as the mids. 

 

[eke2k6]

 
 
It doesn't get more midcentric than the ER4S. And that's from personal experience.