[Mr-Mike]

the ear canal is not straight. shorter wavelengths of higher pitch sounds propagate differently and are absorbed more when reflected back towards the tip. Consider true speakers and placement of a sub versus mains.

I actually think the silicon seals better, seems to create a more noticeable vacuum effect.

 

[Mimouille]

I have always found that silicone tips are easier to put in and sound better. I recommend Ortofon tips or Spinfit tips.

 

[level3]

I agree with ^. Only that I would rate Spinfits over Ortofons. 

 

[eke2k6]

  BTW anyone with more expert opinion on the foam versus silicone tips? I mean tips used on the TOTL universal IEMs.
 
Layla is my first universal, so I have no experience with cheaper IEMs and changing the tips etc.
 
But It is very interesting how the foam tips significantly changes the shape of the sound and makes the high frequencies to fade out. Foam tips provide more isolation and little more bass pressure, but their negative impact on the high frequencies is really very noticeable.
 
I’m not sure how the seal material can be involved in the frequency changes in the ear canal? There is no physical barrier between earphone bores and the ear drum. It is fully understandable that foam makes a better isolation = better seal and the bass frequencies are more prominent, as they have no way to escape from the ear canal. But what the hell makes the high frequencies to disappear?
 
Any ideas?

 
 
This can be easily solved. Inside the foam is the rubber core that goes over the nozzle of your iem. Take a pair of scissors and cut off the extra foam that protrudes past the inner core. That way, you maintain the seal of the foams, but you don't get the dampening effect of the excess material that just ends up obstructing the sound path.

 

[shotgunshane]

Foam tips have foam that extends past the sound tube in their core. When inserting them, this foam overhang can get folded over the opening of the tip, thus partially blocking highs.

To remedy this, many trim the excess foam back closer to that inner sound tube core and it alleviates the issue. Many also prefer TS foams from comply for this reason- a lot less foam overhang and no trimming necessary. I have pretty straight canals and usually do not experience any treble reduction with foams but each ear is different in this regard.

I do agree that foam absorbs canal reflections, so treble reflection effects can be improved with foam but this doesn't cause an actual reduction in treble response.

Edit: I see Eke beat me to the punch!

 

[John Culter]

   
 
This can be easily solved. Inside the foam is the rubber core that goes over the nozzle of your iem. Take a pair of scissors and cut off the extra foam that protrudes past the inner core. That way, you maintain the seal of the foams, but you don't get the dampening effect of the excess material that just ends up obstructing the sound path.

 

Foam tips have foam that extends past the sound tube in their core. When inserting them, this foam overhang can get folded over the opening of the tip, thus partially blocking highs.

To remedy this, many trim the excess foam back closer to that inner sound tube core and it alleviates the issue. Many also prefer TS foams from comply for this reason- a lot less foam overhang and no trimming necessary. I have pretty straight canals and usually do not experience any treble reduction with foams but each ear is different in this regard.

I do agree that foam absorbs canal reflections, so treble reflection effects can be improved with foam but this doesn't cause an actual reduction in treble response.

Edit: I see Eke beat me to the punch!

Haha thank you both!
 
Actually you were 100% right, didn't realised the foam overhang can get folded in the ear canal. The sound is now amazing!! Same highs as for the silicone tips, but the seal and great bass response from the foam. I'm little worried about those very thin bores which can't be normally cleaned from some possible wax. Comply does the wax guard series, which is very handy. I will try to trim them just now (the black ones on the picture) .. but it will need more careful surgery .. to keep the wax blocking material and cut off the foam around until that point.

 
EDIT:
 
Job done - guess these are the ultimate sounding, wax-protected tips for the Layla
 

 

[MMJ2015]

 So the ‘driver war’ is not any kind of measurement. 2 way 2 drivers can produce same quality sound as the 4 way, 4 drivers. 

bob ludwig is the widest known and highest regarded mastering engineer on planet earth, here is the speakers he designed and uses himself for mastering (19 speakers in each speaker cabinet )
 
http://egglestonworks.com/products/the-ivy-signature/
 
are you suggesting that 2 way 2 drivers can produce the same end result as these true mastering speakers ?
 
my point is IEM design no doubt works the same way (of course design implementation is a given )

 

[fiascogarcia]

  bob ludwig is the widest known and highest regarded mastering engineer on planet earth, here is the speakers he designed and uses himself for mastering (19 speakers in each speaker cabinet )
 
http://egglestonworks.com/products/the-ivy-signature/
 
are you suggesting that 2 way 2 drivers can produce the same end result as these true mastering speakers ?
 
my point is IEM design no doubt works the same way (of course design implementation is a given )

Point is that it can be done in different ways.  The big difference between iems and speakers, in terms of comparison within each of those designs, is the wide array of materials and construction of the drivers in speaker design.  Apples to oranges, IMO.
 
Abbey Road

Ardent Recording

The Record Plant

 

[MMJ2015]

I agree with you on that , but mixing speaker and mastering speakers a very different.
im just saying it is possible to make a set of speakers that are more accurate and invisible  with a more complex design such as 19 speakers in one cabinet, compared to trying to accomplish the same thing with a 2 way design.
 
when it comes to IEMs you dealing with the same issues the more complex design gives potential to create a more invisible end result of course any design could be potentially worse in either direction .
 
when you get into looking at the most expensive speakers in the world that produce the most accurate invisible sound, the design is not unlike what we are seeing in the TOTL IEM world like JH audio with 12 drivers etc. etc.

 

[acain]

I was thinking of getting the Angies but have been looking into ACS Encore, and since i dont live far from there NY office i can get free impressions.

 

[shotgunshane]

I was thinking of getting the Angies but have been looking into ACS Encore, and since i dont live far from there NY office i can get free impressions.

Are they similar signatures? No one has really commented on the Encore target sig.

 

[acain]

Are they similar signatures? No one has really commented on the Encore target sig.

I don't know if the sound sig is the same, but a couple of people at a London show listened to the demo of the Layla and the Encore and the guy ordered the Encore right there. It sparked an interest in me since the Layla is so expensive. I was originally looking at the Angie universal but there just to big especially since I use iem's 8 hours a day. I researched the Encore and since I don't have a pair made from silicone I think I might have to try them out. Read the JH Audio Layla impression thread and there's more detail. And there Is an Encore thread also.

 

[M-13]

Found out my local audio shop has Angie/Laylas in stock (had them since 1/26)... and they're offering a discount. Tempted to get the Angie today
 
I'm actually afraid to go try them out as I know I might just buy them without thinking it through. Maybe I can leave my wallet at home and go audition them.

 

[acain]

  Found out my local audio shop has Angie/Laylas in stock (had them since 1/26)... and they're offering a discount. Tempted to get the Angie today
 
I'm actually afraid to go try them out as I know I might just buy them without thinking it through. Maybe I can leave my wallet at home and go audition them.

You only ounce and if you don't now, when you go get them the next time they will be full price. So go get them so you can give all of us your thoughts on them.

 

[MMJ2015]

please, tell us your impressions of angie!