[ejong7]

  O_o;

No really I keep thinking that my UE900's are gonna fall off. But Im back to used to it.

 

[acain]

Its great to see an actual sound engineers input, how about the Angie.

 

[ejong7]

  JH Audio Layla universal!
 
First of all I have to admit, I’m not an audiophile or hi-fi oriented person. I’m sound engineer and music producer. This can significantly affect my point of view on Layla or any headphones in general.
 
I do consider only a good headphones or bad headphones. Good are those who can translate the sound exactly, or closest possible way to how the song is meant to be heard (how the original artist / producer intended).
On the other side the bad headphones are all those, where are any of the parts or frequencies played differently than they should be (coloration, smoothness, emphasised certain parts of freq. spectrum, etc). I do not understand the point of having the headphones which makes the song sound different. So this can be some hard fight with the audiophiles, who actually find something like this as an advantage
 
Some of the other audiophile terms used to describe qualities a different way, are mostly psycho acoustic hard to measure feelings, which are difficult to describe, and hard to explain (at least to me, being a non-english native). So I will just keep it short, what I hear compared to my other IEMs or studio setups I’m used to work with.
 
Last note - most of the professional studio reference monitors used to create the recordings by vast majority of artists and producers are near field, or mid field type produced by Focal, Genelec, Adam, Dynaudio and many others. Most of them are 2 speakers, 2 way or 3 speakers, 3 way. In a few extreme cases up to 7 speakers, 4 way - Adam S7A Mk2 / $48,000 pair.
So the ‘driver war’ is not any kind of measurement. 2 way 2 drivers can produce same quality sound as the 4 way, 4 drivers. 
Perfect similarity is shown there in headphone world - when you look at the only two ‘producer reference’ IEMs on a current market -  Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitor (3 way / 3 drivers) vs. JH Audio Layla (4 way / triple quad driver - 12 drivers).
 
The hardest part is the fit. They are huge. I mean more huge than I thought from the already published photos. Significant part of the Layla stick out of the ear. I don’t care about that - but someone who consider to use them in a public needs to have that in mind - you look weird.
 
Provided tips are just the basic selection - not sure what aftermarket companies (Comply / Spinfit) will introduce for this Siren series, but for now the choice is very limited. All the tips are completely unusable for me (this can explain some negative comments over the forums from US / UK listeners). Only tips which can perfectly seal my ears are the smallest foam tips - and I can imagine I’m not the only person with the same problem, as my ears are average size - nothing special. All the other tips are fully out of the game and makes the Layla not usable at all. 
 

 
I’ve got like 4 hours of listening only, but I consider the Layla as exactly what JH promotes - a reference / mastering IEM. 
The sound is perfect. Whole frequency spectrum is amazingly translated without any flaws. I have found, that there is big similarity with IERM, but the sound from Layla is much “bigger” yet preserves still superflat sound signature. Bass frequencies are with better impact than what IERM can do, very fast and exactly as they should be.
NT6 as the ‘king of clarity’ is also very close, but Layla wins over there. NT6 has slight emphasis on mids which doesn’t sound exactly as the source.
Sound of Layla is perfectly flat and when I compare it to the reference studio speakers like Adam S4X-H, Genelec 8250A, Event Opal, Focal SM9 it is unbelievable how close the signature is. JH Audio made finally possible what I have been looking for. To have your own personal sound studio in your head without any problems of a room treatment, listening position and other things you have to care about in a real studio environment.
 
Final conclusion - Layla outperforms IERM and NT6 (both the current best reference IEMs on the market).
I’m fairly impressed - if you are looking for the best in ear headphone. There it is. Custom version will probably solve the fit problems. If you don’t care about the price, don’t look any further.
 
(There are tons of other manufacturers who makes amazing designs, amazing IEMs/CIEMs but they do not play the music correctly, so there is no contest when compared to Layla).

Not sure since its just a brief first impression, but I did like the Layla with my Spin-Fits. Comfort is the priority in the selection but I really liked how it somehow 'tamed' my Roxannes slightly.

 

[goodvibes]

I forget what tips they used at CES but they just fit without much fuss. That brings up another point of deviation of opinion. Tips can obviously effect a presentation. For the fellow that asked. The Angie is more similar than different. It perhaps doesn't flesh out as much with a slightly less full midrange but it has a similar focus, smooth transition from octave to octave, clarity and extension. I actually slightly preferred it in a very short audition which didn't make me assume it actually better. I could hear where the Layla should better it but it does tell me the Angie is close enough to represent outstanding value. These are very impressive without sounding either enhanced/souped up or analytical.

 

[Mr-Mike]

JH Audio Layla universal!
 


So the ‘driver war’ is not any kind of measurement. 2 way 2 drivers can produce same quality sound as the 4 way, 4 drivers. 
 

But that theory doesn't hold true with armature IEMs right, or does it in your opinion

Thanks!

 

[Mimouille]

  (There are tons of other manufacturers who makes amazing designs, amazing IEMs/CIEMs but they do not play the music correctly, so there is no contest when compared to Layla).

Thanks for the very informative and complete feedback. Now the key question is : do people want a perfectly flat / neutral to the source iem. I like fairly neutral iems such as my SE5 / NT6 but sometimes like a bit of 335.

 

[fiascogarcia]

  JH Audio Layla universal!
 

 
 

  Thanks for the very informative and complete feedback. Now the key question is : do people want a perfectly flat / neutral to the source iem. I like fairly neutral iems such as my SE5 / NT6 but sometimes like a bit of 335.

Not only that, but with everyone owning a different chain of source, dac, and amp, no one will get exactly the same level, or their impression, of flat/neutral.  To get the full artist/producers intended sound, a release would almost need to outline recommended equipment with which to listen.

 

[tumburu]

If manufacturers would invest in building accurate listening systems nobody would look at anything else. But, in reality, it's much easier to make 'colored' (read inaccurate, but 'fun') ones. 
 
If somebody thinks they can improve the sound of a production that was carefully put together by professional engineers in controlled listening environments, they have little idea about the process of making a great record. Hearing what the mastering engineer would hear when giving a record the final touch, should be what any true music lover and audiophile should aim for.
 
Nice to read a review from a fellow sound engineer, but I'd expect these IEMs to target an even more detailed response than the aforementioned studio speakers, since the 'mastering grade' term was used.

 

[jelt2359]

 
I’ve got like 4 hours of listening only, but I consider the Layla as exactly what JH promotes - a reference / mastering IEM. 
The sound is perfect. Whole frequency spectrum is amazingly translated without any flaws. I have found, that there is big similarity with IERM, but the sound from Layla is much “bigger” yet preserves still superflat sound signature. Bass frequencies are with better impact than what IERM can do, very fast and exactly as they should be.
NT6 as the ‘king of clarity’ is also very close, but Layla wins over there. NT6 has slight emphasis on mids which doesn’t sound exactly as the source.
Sound of Layla is perfectly flat and when I compare it to the reference studio speakers like Adam S4X-H, Genelec 8250A, Event Opal, Focal SM9 it is unbelievable how close the signature is. JH Audio made finally possible what I have been looking for. To have your own personal sound studio in your head without any problems of a room treatment, listening position and other things you have to care about in a real studio environment.
 
Final conclusion - Layla outperforms IERM and NT6 (both the current best reference IEMs on the market).
I’m fairly impressed - if you are looking for the best in ear headphone. There it is. Custom version will probably solve the fit problems. If you don’t care about the price, don’t look any further.
 
(There are tons of other manufacturers who makes amazing designs, amazing IEMs/CIEMs but they do not play the music correctly, so there is no contest when compared to Layla).

Thanks John. Great to read comparisons. I also like your focus on Reference.
 
BTW, is the IERM the same as the UERM?

 

[John Culter]

  Thanks John. Great to read comparisons. I also like your focus on Reference.
 
BTW, is the IERM the same as the UERM?

Yes. I found they slightly changed the name from Ultimate Ears Reference Monitors to Ultimate Ears In Ear Reference Monitors

  If manufacturers would invest in building accurate listening systems nobody would look at anything else. But, in reality, it's much easier to make 'colored' (read inaccurate, but 'fun') ones. 
 
If somebody thinks they can improve the sound of a production that was carefully put together by professional engineers in controlled listening environments, they have little idea about the process of making a great record. Hearing what the mastering engineer would hear when giving a record the final touch, should be what any true music lover and audiophile should aim for.
 
Nice to read a review from a fellow sound engineer, but I'd expect these IEMs to target an even more detailed response than the aforementioned studio speakers, since the 'mastering grade' term was used.

Exactly what I thought. It is much easier to make 'colored' in-ear or over ear headphones. There is no need for the extensive audio skill level engineers and you can make superb looking CIEM shell with somehow good sound. No audiophile is aware of the simple thing - if you listen to the colored headphone, you will never be sure what the original song sounds like. But when you listen to real reference headphones, you can ALWAYS add any coloration to it with the simple EQs or you can go deeper and transofrm your library with some VST plugins to your taste. Reference headphones can reproduce colored sound easily. But already colored headphones are mostly not possible to 'tune/repair' into the flat (original) sound state. So I don't get the hundreds of "hard-colored" headphones on the market. There is need just for one super-flat-reference model. All the coloration and changes are easily made by the additional effects in the source device.
Sorry for not being more extensive, will try to focus on some more deep expressions later

   
 
Not only that, but with everyone owning a different chain of source, dac, and amp, no one will get exactly the same level, or their impression, of flat/neutral.  To get the full artist/producers intended sound, a release would almost need to outline recommended equipment with which to listen.

This is for completely another level debate and for different thread But I can reassure you, that from certain price level any dac/amp/cable does so MINOR changes to the sound, that they are mostly not even measurable. This can be like 1-3% of the whole sound difference and maybe 0% difference for normal user outside head-fi community. But use of any other than flat headphones makes SIGNIFICANT differences in the final sound to anyone on this planet. So no matter if you use the macbook pro integrated output, iPhone 6 Plus or AK240 - you can be sure on the Layla the sound will be almost identical with no coloration on any device. Maybe professional listener will notice smaller soundstage, and some minor differences. But on the same sources connected to any non-reference headphones, you will get completely different sound, which has nothing to do with the original recording.

But that theory doesn't hold true with armature IEMs right, or does it in your opinion

Thanks!

Hard to tell! to my ears NT6 produce 100% similar quality sound with 6 drivers per side as Layla does. They have only different tuning of the crossovers which makes some mid frequencies sounds emphasised on NT6. In my opinion with some tweaks NT6 can be tuned to match Layla almost identically with the half of the drivers. But thats the question to the electro-mechanic who builds the drivers and whole electronics.

 

[shakur1996]

Well, I did not see waterfall plot of Layla so I can't comment on it, but typically CIEMs/IEMs considered as reference/analytical are the brigther ones (but this is part of the story), but what's more important they have shorter decay (combined with quicker attack) to create faster sound. NT-6 is the example of such CIEM. According to the waterfall plot for example published on Rin Choi blog they have rather shorter than longer decay; this is somehow confirmed by listening impressions of various listeners. 
 
Can someone please explain to me why the heck CIEMs/IEMs which unnaturally shortens the decay or which have too qucik attack are considered to be true to the recording. IMHO the things are other way around. If a given CIEM cannot reproduce for example the entire reverbancy time of bass why people consider it as reference; IMHO they are not reference.
 
John Culter, I'm curious about your impressions as to the Legend-R.

 

[tsn141]

  Well, I did not see waterfall plot of Layla so I can't comment on it, but typically CIEMs/IEMs considered as reference/analytical are the brigther ones (but this is part of the story), but what's more important they have shorter decay (combined with quicker attack) to create faster sound. NT-6 is the example of such CIEM. According to the waterfall plot for example published on Rin Choi blog they have rather shorter than longer decay; this is somehow confirmed by listening impressions of various listeners. 
 
Can someone please explain to me why the heck CIEMs/IEMs which unnaturally shortens the decay or which have too qucik attack are considered to be true to the recording. IMHO the things are other way around. If a given CIEM cannot reproduce for example the entire reverbancy time of bass why people consider it as reference; IMHO they are not reference.
 
John Culter, I'm curious about your impressions as to the Legend-R.

In fact, there is no corolation between speed and character(IMO). However, bright and unnatural IEMs shows its speed.
It is similar to Formula1 Monaco GP shows highest speed emotion, in fact it slowest F1 GP.

 

[shakur1996]

Hmm...."true to the recording" or "reference" slogan says that a given phone, whether it is CIEM, IEM or headphone, should output the music in the way it was recorded in the studio. So, if we have a CIEM which has shorter on average decay and quicker on average attack IMHO, what is shown on the waterfall plot or impulse response measurements, it is not true to the recording, because there are recordings where the decay of a given bass note is more than 10ms and thus such CIEM will not output exactly the bass note recorded in the sudio. In other words, the fact that a given CIEM has shorter decay means that it will never ouput the music with notes having longer decay in a proper way (because it will cut off the notes to quickly). Thus, IMHO from definition "reference" phone cannot have any kind of coloration, including any relating to ADSR characteristics. Therefore, I see vary straight cooleration between speed (aka PRaT/ADSR) and "reference".
Suprisingly CIEMs which were given as examples of "almost reference" CIEMs i.e. NT-6 and IERM, has coloration to their sound for example in ADSR characteristics. Maybe they meet Olive and Welti target FR curve but this has nothing to do with "true to the recording" slogan. Of course FR response is important but PRaT is the other, important part of the puzzle (IMHO seems to be neglegacted by some).

 

[tsn141]

To my taste, speed is very important besides naturality.

There is some examples for speed with dark tonality (SE5).

SE5 has very good speed, also my westone ES5 has good speed characteristics.
 
As I learned from my engineering aproach; Speed is a function of stable behavior of system.

I hope, I can explain.

 

[shakur1996]

SE5ways (I assume that you meant Spiral Ear 5ways Reference) has more than 10 ms (more or less) decay longevity in the region up to around 2 kHz, whereas NT-6 has only 5ms longevity on average. From this results simple fact that NT-6 may cut down some notes on some songs. Can it be then considered as reference? IMHO not. IMHO 5ways are more true to the recording in this respect; of course 5ways have darker tonality and does not match Olive and Welti targe FR curve and I assume that for these reasons less people will find them as being "reference".