[Tail]

   
Releasing new flagships every year is going to burn through consumer goodwill pretty quickly. Nobody likes their $1600 purchase being second best a year after release. It's better to wait a few years and release a 16 driver CIEM/UIEM. Worse still I hope we never have a situation where there is competition to increase prices in order to seem more "flagshippy" versus competitors. The price per driver should be going down not up.
 
Layla = 12 driver = $2500/12 = $208 per driver
JH13 = 6 driver = $10999/6 = $183 per driver
Cosmic Ears 6EP = 6 driver = $660/6 = $110 per driver
 
Doubling the drivers doesn't double the work. Same amount of work goes into making the shell.
 
Two things needs to happen. The competition needs more exposure and to be explored rather than for it to be just Noble/JH Audio. We need actual measurements of UIEMs to level the playing field and to act as a comparative tool.
 
At the moment the CIEM market just seems dysfunctional. Extreme prices aren't good for the hobby.

Well it's not only the number of drivers... several patents, "special" cables, lot of engineering and inventions and all that stuff is put in iem other than just plain drivers, also some materials that are more exclusive (which I don't approve, I'd rather have plastic iem with good sound for cheaper) but still, nice packaging carbon hard case, one extra cable in package... Also you pay a lot for marketing when buying a product, tho these high end audio products rarely need any. I highly doubt Jerry Harvey will be swimming in gold thanks to the price of Layla. 
 
Also why is a problem if someone doesn't have absolute "best" (most expensive) in the market? Roxanne sound the same as before Layla, right?
It shouldn't be race of consumers to have most expensive and latest ever, but something that sounds to their liking, and from what we've heard Layla is something different from Roxanne, with different sound signature, so no losses there (only loss is for people who want most expensive JH iem, but those seeking sound signature of Roxanne it's same thing now with Layla since it sounds different).

 

[fb24601]

starting to get silly as the price could buy a top headphone plus a decent pairing amp, while there are decent choice for portable

sure like financial market we don't know when the bubble burst until it burst and things can go on like it is justified to the point you cannot believe just like the system of debt...

 

[acain]

Since the prices are high its unlikely to see them ever drop. I think the only way they may drop is when more and more models come out, then they might drop the prices on older models. They dont have to drop prices because its a custom item were its not sitting on a shelf like old stock.

 

[Dinerenblanc]

  Well it's not only the number of drivers... several patents, "special" cables, lot of engineering and inventions and all that stuff is put in iem other than just plain drivers, also some materials that are more exclusive (which I don't approve, I'd rather have plastic iem with good sound for cheaper) but still, nice packaging carbon hard case, one extra cable in package... Also you pay a lot for marketing when buying a product, tho these high end audio products rarely need any. I highly doubt Jerry Harvey will be swimming in gold thanks to the price of Layla. 
 
Also why is a problem if someone doesn't have absolute "best" (most expensive) in the market? Roxanne sound the same as before Layla, right?
It shouldn't be race of consumers to have most expensive and latest ever, but something that sounds to their liking, and from what we've heard Layla is something different from Roxanne, with different sound signature, so no losses there (only loss is for people who want most expensive JH iem, but those seeking sound signature of Roxanne it's same thing now with Layla since it sounds different).

You can't associate every price increase with R&D since every product requires it. While I understand that certain products might require more R&D, it's hard for me to see the justification of charging a $1000 premium. 

 

[fb24601]

  You can't associate every price increase with R&D since every product requires it. While I understand that certain products might require more R&D, it's hard for me to see the justification of charging a $1000 premium. 

you can when u associate with astell and kern...

 

[Tail]

  You can't associate every price increase with R&D since every product requires it. While I understand that certain products might require more R&D, it's hard for me to see the justification of charging a $1000 premium 

Well bit of carbon, bit of money goes to iriver probably, probably some more marketing then previous version, maybe these new drivers are more expensive than the ones in Roxanne, since they said they are totally different (possibly more expensive), some more research and work put in engineering this new Layla and Angie.
 
But yeah, I agree it's overpriced, I also think that all the ones before were overpriced too but I can put my life on it - ALL the other companies, those big ones rob us more in percentage per earphone sold than custom makers are.
 
But for Roxanne  owners I can't see the problem, why everyone wants to have most expensive and latest iem regardless of sound? Why would Roxanne owner feel damaged with new Layla? 
People who went to Roxanne wanted it's sound signature and if they didn't want sound like that there were alternatives, now all of them suddenly want flat Layla and feel betrayed by JH because they don't have most expensive one? I don't get it. 

 

[339305]

I'd have nothing against the price if the highest attention was paid to every possible detail.  Who's going to care about innovation with seemingly so little concern devoted to ergonomics?  In my opinion, wearing these IEMs is like the visual equivalent of the following piece of tech (the overly ambitious Neptune Pine for those curious):
 

 

[rovopio]

it's not about the sound.
 
i think people are a little slighted because reportedly when roxanne was released it was stated that roxanne would be flagship among siren series.
 
it's one thing to release flagship every couple of years, it's another thing to release a flagship close to your previous flagship when the previous one have what seems to be long delay in ordering.
 
also the price difference between both probably plays a factor. the way the head-fi tv youtube video talks about it, it looks clear to me that layla is the flagship now, replacing roxanne.
some of the roxanne owners can afford the $2500 price tag, even if layla was sold along with roxanne. if layla was priced at $1500-$1700 you can say it's 2 flagship. one for A sound sig, one for B sound sig. that could work.
 
but with $2500, it's clear that roxanne is the second-tier goods in JH products hierarchy now. Some roxanne owners will feel like they have second-tier JH iem that cost $1600 while their purchase intent was to own a JH audio flagship. Especially those who could afford Layla.
 
When you buy a luxury item, it's not all about functionality. it's about prestige, choice, and identity.
 
yes, technology changes, but it's the customers intent of buying and the products choice of words stated on it, have discrepancy between promotion and reality.

 

[Tail]

  it's not about the sound.
 
i think people are a little slighted because reportedly when roxanne was released it was stated that roxanne would be flagship among siren series.
 
it's one thing to release flagship every couple of years, it's another thing to release a flagship close to your previous flagship when the previous one have what seems to be long delay in ordering.
 
also the price difference between both probably plays a factor. the way the head-fi tv youtube video talks about it, it looks clear to me that layla is the flagship now, replacing roxanne.
some of the roxanne owners can afford the $2500 price tag, even if layla was sold along with roxanne. if layla was priced at $1500-$1700 you can say it's 2 flagship. one for A sound sig, one for B sound sig. that could work.
 
but with $2500, it's clear that roxanne is the second-tier goods in JH products hierarchy now. Some roxanne owners will feel like they have second-tier JH iem that cost $1600 while their purchase intent was to own a JH audio flagship. Especially those who could afford Layla.
 
When you buy a luxury item, it's not all about functionality. it's about prestige, choice, and identity.
 
yes, technology changes, but it's the customers intent of buying and the products choice of words stated on it, have discrepancy between promotion and reality.

 
If people wanted flat they wouldn't go for Roxanne, they would go for some of many alternatives. So nothing changed now, Roxanne still sounds to their liking and Layla is flat and different so they wouldn't go for it now anyways. Or they suddenly changed their sound sig preference and suddenly started liking different sound signature... seems bit odd to me. 
 
Or you are saying that sound is not important as having a flagship (and most expensive)?
 
My point is that Roxanne owners are not damaged in any way by this launching of DIFFERENT sounding iems, except their ego maybe, now they don't have most expensive.
 
 

  I'd have nothing against the price if the highest attention was paid to every possible detail.  Who's going to care about innovation with seemingly so little concern devoted to ergonomics?  In my opinion, wearing these IEMs is like the visual equivalent of the following piece of tech (the overly ambitious Neptune Pine for those curious):
 
 

Agreed! You've found great example with that tablet on hand instead of watch

 

[AUserName501]

   
If people wanted flat they wouldn't go for Roxanne, they would go for some of many alternatives. So nothing changed now, Roxanne still sounds to their liking and Layla is flat and different so they wouldn't go for it now anyways. Or they suddenly changed their sound sig preference and suddenly started liking different sound signature... seems bit odd to me. 
 
Or you are saying that sound is not important as having a flagship (and most expensive)?
 
My point is that Roxanne owners are not damaged in any way by this launching of DIFFERENT sounding iems, except their ego maybe, now they don't have most expensive.

 
If the Layla and Roxanne costed the same then you could easily say they are both flagships for different tastes. When the Layla costs more than a thousand dollars more then it's understandable why people would think the Roxanne is now second best. Part of the appeal of flagships is that they don't get replaced every year. Put a few years between your flagships and spend that time doing R&D.
 
Perhaps the reason JH Audio is releasing flagships so quickly is because they want to ramp up the prices. If you release three flagships at $1400, $2500 and then $3500 within a few years then the increases might not seem as much relative to a $1400 flagship followed by a $3500 flagship.

 

[rovopio]

  Or you are saying that sound is not important as having a flagship (and most expensive)?
 

 
it's not just flagship. it's JH audio flagship.
 
it's luxury item mate. he's the founder of ultimate ears. he made jh16pro. and then he made roxanne. Some endorser still chooses his products even though with JH audio you're going to have to pay even if you're a very famous endorser.
 
JH audio flagship is more than just an item to some people who bought it. maybe im wrong. also, a subset of these people can afford the $2500 as well. it's not only the matter of sound. but also price point, release timing, previous word-of-mouths, etc. idk what else.

 

[jelt2359]

it's not just flagship. it's JH audio flagship.

it's luxury item mate. he's the founder of ultimate ears. he made jh16pro. and then he made roxanne. Some endorser still chooses his products even though with JH audio you're going to have to pay even if you're a very famous endorser.

Strange, I don't feel the same way.

 

[warrenpchi]

  I might get the Layla to keep my K10 company. Did Jerry discuss any thing about selling the connectors to wire builders.

 
Hmm, not that I recall... but then again, I didn't ask yet.  

 

[rovopio]

Strange, I don't feel the same way.

 
the operative word being some. i didn't say all.

 

[fiascogarcia]

   
it's not just flagship. it's JH audio flagship.
 
it's luxury item mate. he's the founder of ultimate ears. he made jh16pro. and then he made roxanne. Some endorser still chooses his products even though with JH audio you're going to have to pay even if you're a very famous endorser.
 

 
Do the very famous endorsers pay anything?  I really do not know, just curious.