[fiascogarcia]

  Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;

All mimsy were the borogoves,

And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

 

Care to comment?

Didn't you just say that a few comments earlier??

 

[acain]

Any companies most expensive item will be called there flagship even if its there best or not.

 

[MuppetFace]

  I'd like to inject a bit of logic into the trending discussion if I may?
 
If you like and enjoy the Roxanne - that is, if you have a leaning or preference for its signature - then I don't think you'll like the Layla very much.  Their two signatures are considerably different.  And if that's the case, then what does it matter how much it costs, or what it might be a flagship of?  You wouldn't buy it anyway, right?  

 
Indeed.
 
Though I'm sure some people who enjoy the Roxannes would enjoy the Layla even more. Jude for example. Or Mike Mercer for example: "like hearing/experience my Roxannes x10."
 
I'm seeing people who were enthusiastic about the Roxannes who are now equally enthusiastic if not more for the Laylas.
 
Meanwhile some people like me kind-of / sort-of like the Roxannes but wish they did some things better.

 

[DrSheep]

That's what I am hoping.  We shall see.

 

[xedjflowx]

  Any companies most expensive item will be called there flagship even if its there best or not.

Your right but I would assume with these new patents that they were meant for the flagship.

 

[warrenpchi]

Well said Warren. Get rid of the "flagship" title and it's just another 12 driver iem with a different sound.

 
Yup!  And yes, I suppose a higher price tag as well.  But it costs what it costs.  Should I (or anyone) get something that I (or they) don't like because it's cheaper?  I think not.
 

  roxanne . ..  gosh . . . i am in love with those . . .  literally . . . they r even my whatsapp profile pic

 
Looks like you found the one you want.  

 

 

  I'd like to inject a bit of logic into the trending discussion if I may?
 
If you like and enjoy the Roxanne - that is, if you have a leaning or preference for its signature - then I don't think you'll like the Layla very much.  Their two signatures are considerably different.  And if that's the case, then what does it matter how much it costs, or what it might be a flagship of?  You wouldn't buy it anyway, right?  

 
Indeed.
 
Though I'm sure some people who enjoy the Roxannes would enjoy the Layla even more. Jude for example. Or Mike Mercer for example: "like hearing/experience my Roxannes x10."
 
I'm seeing people who were enthusiastic about the Roxannes who are now equally enthusiastic if not more for the Laylas.
 
Meanwhile some people like me kind-of / sort-of like the Roxannes but wish they did some things better.

 
And then there's me, who did not like the Roxanne, who favors the Layla.  Yes, I see what you mean:  it seems that many differing sets of preferences are forming a miniature consensus that indicates the Layla is - at least in part - a better overall performer.  

 
Well, I would again simply point out that I am speaking strictly for myself, so I hope no one reads more into what I said, anything more than I actually meant.  

 

[Malevolent]

 
Maybe.  But if the people who created the Layla all agree that they like it better, then who are we to say they cannot call it a flagship.  We don't have to agree with that if we don't want to, but they can call it whatever they want.
 
Honestly guys, "flagship" is a pretty meaningless term if you think about it.  There's not a lot of objectivity behind it.  Like what you like, and let that be that.  No?  

 

 
I agree that the term "flagship" is just something that bestows on an IEM the distinct privilege of being the company's best product (or at least one which the company generally feels is the best). In a vacuum, a Roxanne and a Layla will still be mightily fine earphones. If the Layla is a JH version of the K10, then we will have 2 12-driver TOTL IEMs that will cater to 2 different types of listeners with varying musical/sound preferences.
 
I guess I am just arguing from emotion. I love my Roxanne, and I'm sure I'll be sticking with it. It just stings a little to be told that what you spent so much money on has been supplanted by a new flagship on the very day that you actually receive them.

 

[warrenpchi]

 
I agree that the term "flagship" is just something that bestows on an IEM the distinct privilege of being the company's best product (or at least one which the company generally feels is the best). In a vacuum, a Roxanne and a Layla will still be mightily fine earphones. 

 
Yessir, exactly.  

 

 
I guess I am just arguing from emotion. I love my Roxanne, and I'm sure I'll be sticking with it. It just stings a little to be told that what you spent so much money on has been supplanted by a new flagship on the very day that you actually receive them.

 
Ouch!  Are you happy with them though?  

 

[Mimouille]

The Roxanne's non-trivial bass response was the main reason I could not get into it, which is why I didn't.  

[rule]
I'd like to inject a bit of logic into the trending discussion if I may?

If you like and enjoy the Roxanne - that is, if you have a leaning or preference for its signature - then I don't think you'll like the Layla very much.  Their two signatures are considerably different.  And if that's the case, then what does it matter how much it costs, or what it might be a flagship of?  You wouldn't buy it anyway, right?  

Please allow me to have a different view of logic. We can always play it cool and rationalize why we should not care how much JH is mocking its clients. Of course I will not lose sleep over this, I have 6 incredible IEMs, more then I need.

It is just the principle. Jerry said it would be the flagship of the whole series. So he lied to make more money. Do you see another way to put it?

 

[dleblanc343]

 
You mean your prior post about wanting an accommodation wasn't a joke?

You need to address me for what now? I think you shouldn't let other people's business bother you so much. 
 
Grow up please 

 

[jelt2359]

Please allow me to have a different view of logic. We can always play it cool and rationalize why we should not care how much JH is mocking its clients. Of course I will not lose sleep over this, I have 6 incredible IEMs, more then I need.

It is just the principle. Jerry said it would be the flagship of the whole series. So he lied to make more money. Do you see another way to put it?

I missed the entire launch of the rox... Can you show me where jerry said this would be the flagship? I am genuinely just curious.

 

[jelt2359]

Indeed.

Though I'm sure some people who enjoy the Roxannes would enjoy the Layla even more. Jude for example. Or Mike Mercer for example: "like hearing/experience my Roxannes x10."

I'm seeing people who were enthusiastic about the Roxannes who are now equally enthusiastic if not more for the Laylas.

Meanwhile some people like me kind-of / sort-of like the Roxannes but wish they did some things better.

I seriously cannot imagine any iem at this level being anything *10. Sure, diminishing margins and all, but wow, *10... Im not even sure comparing my home rig, hifiman he6 run from speaker taps, is 10x better than say a $79 hifiman re400 run from the iPhone. Price 10x higher, sure but sound 10x better? No way.

For a new iem from a respected bidi company to be 10x better than that company's previous flagship is simply unfathomable to me... Ymmv, of course.

 

[acain]

For example say Chevrolet has there flagship sports car the Corvette and they never offered it in a convertible. Then they decided a couple months to make it a convertible obviously its going to cost more and be there new flagship. I can see why people would be upset if they new it was going to come out they would wait and buy that one. But companies have ideas that they  think are going to work and they release them into production (Roxanne). Mean while they have another product  there working on at the same time (Layla) but don't have all the bugs worked out and there not sure if it will ever reach production.  Since they have the Roxanne figured out and being there most expensive custom they cant come out and say we may have something better but not sure, it would kill the Roxanne line and there reputation and everyone would be waiting to see if something better is coming and that would equal no sales. At the time I believe they thought the Roxanne was going to be there flagship for awhile.  I think Jerry bumped his head on the toilet and thought of a way for the Layla to work. JH probably thought about not releasing it now, but with 1964 new Adel a lot of people are talking about it and are very interested in it and I am sure JH sees this and hears things about it. There are probably tons of people that were going to buy JH but now with 1964 new technology and all the hype I am sure they changed there minds. So if Corvette now has this convertible are you going to be upset hell yah. But can we send them hate mail and bash the hell out of them for being innovative and giving us new options. Well you can if you want I respect peoples emotions and passion for there hobbies. I make biological medical equipment in a machine shop and do a lot of R&D. We constantly have new products but always find a better revision of the same thing at higher costs its called staying competitive with the competition and its the only way to stay a float in todays economy. The owner of my company ounce told me I am not in business to please everybody I am in business to make money. My OPINION we should be honored that we have a guy like Jerry for always pushing the envelope of technology and for being so innovative and sharing it with the hobby we all love. Sorry for the long comment.

 

[jelt2359]

There was another solution to this. Jh could have created a new line of "reference ciems", of which Layla would have been the flagship. Those who wanted an iem more suitable for stage use would go for the Rox; those who wanted a reference, flat sound would go for the Layla.

But then that would mean six other iems in the siren series without the 4th order crossover- not sure how well that would sell, lol.

 

[Zojokkeli]

If I ever decide to upgrade from SE535's, Angie sure seems like a sexy option.