[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

an easy tax write off and they get their money back

Lol By how much back? Big whoop. I don't know whether its JHA who are nickel and diming or is it some of his customers who somehow believe they're entitled to a discount just because they were the first to enjoy great products. I remember gaming enthusiasts who were willing to pay more than double the retail amount for the PS3 or XBOX360 on ebay during the first couple weeks of their release dates - just to be the coveted first!
 
Also, this idea that just because some canjammers were present at the meet that they should be able to lock down their place on the waiting list with a $100 down while the rest of us have to pay in full makes no sense, whatsoever. It would be unfair to the rest of us. Sure, they should be rewarded because they would be the first to sample and let the word out on how great the JH3A sounds... but that's what the free ear impressions they gave were for. Goodness, I don't recall any other companies giving discounts to old customers every time they came out with a new highly desirable product. Do you guys?

 

[ThEvil0nE]

Quote:

Lol By how much back?

Typically... this applies to all and not just JHA... it all depends on how much they would like to write it off. It could be anything from it's retail price to even over pricing it. How much to be precise? It usually should appear on your 1099.

 

[warp08]

Quote:

The JH-3A, that takes a SPDIF input....what did they use for a DAC to demo it?
 
I am still on the fence here.  How good could be an IEM compared to an HD800 (I know a lot of folks will chime in and say the JH1x are awesome) but its still hard for me to believe an IEM can be THIS GOOD.

When properly fitted and connected to an amp with adjustable gain to support low-imp IEMs as well as 600Ohm cans, to my ears the answer is absolutely "Yes."  They are that good.  I have had a chance to compare both of my JH13/16s to a number of top-end cans at Can Jam and they were pretty much comparable in terms of overall sound quality.  The only full-sized HP that I felt to be superior especially in treble extensions were the $2,200 Stax Lambdas connected to a $5,000 Woo WE5.  Some people don't like or can't use custom IEMs due to their irregular ear canal dimensions or simply prefer the full-sized cans as a matter of personal preference.
 
I know it sounds unbelievable, but this is the reason why they priced in the in that range.  They give you mobility, better sound isolation and a sound quality that is at least comparable if not better than most mid- to top-of-the line full sized cans.

 

[thread]

Thank you, khaos974 & RYDMOTO for the discussions on time & phase. This is the kind of stuff I was looking for.
 
So I'm to understand that the original 2 aspects I mentioned don't really contribute much?

 

[ianmedium]

To address a couple of things, Tax write off. So what if they were! It still required energy and thought and care to offer the give away and I am sure that Jerry's motivation was not purely, "hey I get  a tax write off"! I am sure there would have been many other, much easier ways to achieve that!
 
Secondly about discount. It seems now that nobody thinks they have got a great deal unless they get a discount. Looking at the large amount of hand crafting, R&D and care and attention gone into this product. Looking at the reputation one is getting with it I truly would say that at full price one is getting something of a bargain!
 
From what I have seen one can pay upwards of $150 for ear impressions which were being given away at the show..Is that not enough of a discount on a brand new, highly cove table item?

 

[warp08]

Quote:

My only complaint, since I am #5, is that they asked for the money in advance. I would have been happier putting down a $100 non-refundable
deposit, and pay the rest before shipping. Most of our other member/MOT's do it that way.
 
I like Jerry and Brittany a lot, and have known Jerry since '96, but I feel that they were being a little money hungry, especially by not giving the
early adopters some kind of discount. That's pretty much standard fare in this industry.

 
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. If you were truly concerned about cash flow, you could have waited until they started shipping before placing your order.  But you--and me--wanted to get it soonest so we were asked to pony up.  It was the same way when I pre-ordered my JH16s in January and had to wait 3 months for the product to actually ship.  But when I got it, it quickly realized that it was money well spent.
 
You've known JH a lot longer than I have so no doubt you are also aware that JHA is still considered a startup.  They use proprietary, custom-spec drivers and no doubt other components for the JH-3A that will require a significant price premium to order from suppliers due to low volume.  There are no economies of scale to speak of here.  They probably literally need to charge up front to ensure sufficient cash flow to keep the business running, not to speak of the expense associated with development, testing and custom tooling required to roll out these cutting-edge products.
 
I specifically asked him why doesn't he charge a comparable amount for the JH16s as UE charges for the UE-18s (which come with older generation drivers) and go for $1,349.  He just said that he didn't believe that it would be ethical to charge that amount of money for IEMs and that he wanted to keep them as affordable as he possibly can.  And don't forget, UE's buying volume is considerably higher than JHAs.  It doesn't sound like somebody being "money-hungry."
 
At any rate, this is my perspective on the matter.  Take it for what it's worth.
 

 

[Sonic 748i]

 
Quote:

 
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. If you were truly concerned about cash flow, you could have waited until they started shipping before placing your order.  But you--and me--wanted to get it soonest so we were asked to pony up.  It was the same way when I pre-ordered my JH16s in January and had to wait 3 months for the product to actually ship.  But when I got it, it quickly realized that it was money well spent.
 
You've known JH a lot longer than I have so no doubt you are also aware that JHA is still considered a startup.  They use proprietary, custom-spec drivers and no doubt other components for the JH-3A that will require a significant price premium to order from suppliers due to low volume.  There are no economies of scale to speak of here.  They probably literally need to charge up front to ensure sufficient cash flow to keep the business running, not to speak of the expense associated with development, testing and custom tooling required to roll out these cutting-edge products.
 
I specifically asked him why doesn't he charge a comparable amount for the JH16s as UE charges for the UE-18s (which come with older generation drivers) and go for $1,349.  He just said that he didn't believe that it would be ethical to charge that amount of money for IEMs and that he wanted to keep them as affordable as he possibly can.  And don't forget, UE's buying volume is considerably higher than JHAs.  It doesn't sound like somebody being "money-hungry."
 
At any rate, this is my perspective on the matter.  Take it for what it's worth.
 

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[midoo1990]

 
Quote:

 
 
From what I have seen one can pay upwards of $150 for ear impressions which were being given away at the show..Is that not enough of a discount on a brand new, highly cove table item?

i made my impressions for jh13 for free at a Hearing centre in my country,so no it is not considered a discount IMO.FYI,the materials used to make impressions are very cheap and i can even get them from any pharmacy and make it at home.i am also with immitbiker to think they are money hungry from my experiance in a different incidence with them i dont wish to discuss now.
 

 

[ianmedium]

 
Quote:

 

i made my impressions for jh13 for free at a Hearing centre in my country,so no it is not considered a discount IMO.FYI,the materials used to make impressions are very cheap and i can even get them from any pharmacy and make it at home.i am also with immitbiker to think they are money hungry from my experiance in a different incidence with them i dont wish to discuss now.
 

 
That may be so in your country but I asked the other day in mine and I was looking at around $130 with tax and I have heard it can vary from $50-$150 elswhere!
 
As to money hungry, well I don't know the people enough to comment on such a personal level but I would say what they were doing at the show was offering something for free which they did not have to offer and were selling a product backed up by years of experience and one which is highly thought of in both professional and non professional circles for what is a reasonable price considering the experience behind the product!
It must be remembered as well that this is to some extent a bespoke product which requires a great deal more human labour. I for one would rather the people who make things for me go home at night with enough money to live well and feed their familes!
 

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

 
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. If you were truly concerned about cash flow, you could have waited until they started shipping before placing your order.  But you--and me--wanted to get it soonest so we were asked to pony up.  It was the same way when I pre-ordered my JH16s in January and had to wait 3 months for the product to actually ship.  But when I got it, it quickly realized that it was money well spent.
 
You've known JH a lot longer than I have so no doubt you are also aware that JHA is still considered a startup.  They use proprietary, custom-spec drivers and no doubt other components for the JH-3A that will require a significant price premium to order from suppliers due to low volume.  There are no economies of scale to speak of here.  They probably literally need to charge up front to ensure sufficient cash flow to keep the business running, not to speak of the expense associated with development, testing and custom tooling required to roll out these cutting-edge products.
 
I specifically asked him why doesn't he charge a comparable amount for the JH16s as UE charges for the UE-18s (which come with older generation drivers) and go for $1,349.  He just said that he didn't believe that it would be ethical to charge that amount of money for IEMs and that he wanted to keep them as affordable as he possibly can.  And don't forget, UE's buying volume is considerably higher than JHAs.  It doesn't sound like somebody being "money-hungry."
 
At any rate, this is my perspective on the matter.  Take it for what it's worth.
 

 
I totally disagree in about every way...
 
Yes they are start-up and yes this is a niche market that doesn't have the volume levels of say normal IEMs.  But volume levels can give you flexibility in your pricing model, not whether you charge a customer up-front for a product she is not going to see for a couple of months! 
 
You can not be serious about the cash flow argument.  If you need to literally charge customers up-front to sustain cash flow, then your solvency as a company is in question.  I don't know JH's financial situation today, but it would SEEM to me that they have had some level of success which would mean to me that they have cash on hand or at least enough credit to full fill pre-orders.
 
Furthermore, there is something to be said about best practices.  I assure you, this isn't one of them.  The only reason why I haven't pulled the trigger on this is because I'm out $1800 USB with absolute no guarantee on ship date.  Wait until they announce that there was a parts delay and that they won't be shipping until January - are you really sitting there (and Sonic, though his fanboyism is clinical at this point), and tell me you're going to be happy.
 
Charging everybody up front is a terrible move.  I have no idea who's idea is this and WHY you would EVERY DO this with a pre-release product.  I can understand a deposit to at least gauge the seriousness of the customer.  But in the high-end audio field, this is NOT the right way to conduct business.
 
I am not saying JH is a horrible company, or the the folks that work there are unscrupulous - it actually sounds like they are a fantastic company who just made a mistake in their release model.

 

[cooperpwc]

Quote:

 
You can not be serious about the cash flow argument. 

Trogdor, the only thing that we can be certain of is that you have never run a business. The perogative of cash flow mangement does not equate with near insolvency. In small companies, it is the ones who manage cash flow carefully that avoid concerns about insolvency.
 
Beyond that, nvm... 

 

[khaos974]

You may mant to re-read both posts, mine also made a point about amping separately the lows, highs, mids was better, but the crossover points are set once for all.
Well not really... you can change them afterwards since it is only software settings, but they certainly aren't changed dynamically during a song. I would expect a setting for rock, one for jazz, one for funk... at most.
 
Quote:

Thank you, khaos974 & RYDMOTO for the discussions on time & phase. This is the kind of stuff I was looking for.
 
So I'm to understand that the original 2 aspects I mentioned don't really contribute much?

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Trogdor, the only thing that we can be certain of is that you have never run a business. The perogative of cash flow mangement does not equate with near insolvency. In small companies, it is the ones who manage cash flow carefully that avoid concerns about insolvency.
 
Beyond that, nvm... 

 
 
One of the biggest issues with any small business is cash.  You need it to obtain the resources to expand, invest in R&D etc.  If you can't manage your cash flow, you are dead.  Plain and simple.  But this isn't a micro-economics class:
 
Sorry for being a little stand offish....its just that this policy has really turned me off despite the fact I think from the early reports, this could be a revolutionary product (and I am on the fence about buying it, EDIT, despite the policy).
 
Cheers!

 

[sling5s]

Last time I checked on the poll: HD800 vs JH13pro.  One third preferred the HD800 while approximately two thirds preferred the JH13pro.
So I imagine with Jerry saying that the JH13pro with JH-3A together exceeds (if he was forced to put a number on it) 50% over the JH13pro, that JH13pro +JH-3A combo will unquestionably exceed the HD800. To me, if the JH13pro were on par with the HD800, now with the 50% improvement that Jerry speaks of, it will be a no brainer, the JH13pro trumping and out performing every headphone out there. 50% is a lot when you are in the hi end territory.  
 
Having said that, is it my understanding that there will be three source options:
1. Line out from ipod/iphone/ipad
2. Mini USB from Macbooks/Noteboo/Laptop PC
3. Coaxial from CD players
 

 
Quote:

The JH-3A, that takes a SPDIF input....what did they use for a DAC to demo it?
 
I am still on the fence here.  How good could be an IEM compared to an HD800 (I know a lot of folks will chime in and say the JH1x are awesome) but its still hard for me to believe an IEM can be THIS GOOD.

 

 

[aloksatoor]

Also factor in longetivity (custom iems eventually loose their tight seal fits) comfort upgradability (w.r.t. cables sources ) and sound stage and not to forget resale value. I will still save up for an 800 over IEMs. Still not over the fence .