[xiaoipower]

Personally I don't think that music_4321 meant to be patronising or condescending to youngsters. In all fairness his general advice is quite valid, younger people are more likely to be less experienced with the various gears being talked about. We've lived a shorter period of time so chances are we haven't played the (aural) field as much.

I think there is certainly a danger of less experienced members being more susceptible to the various hyperbole/effusive praise thrown around any new and highly regarded piece of gear. Chances are if you haven't bought some of the lower end/mid range stuff you'll not be aware of the degree to which performance increments compared to the extra doll you fork over.

Not wishing to put words in his mouth, but I think the point music_4321 is trying to make is that the 'hype' that can be left on more impressionable 'newbies' can lead to people thinking they must jump straight to the best. Whilst they have every right to do what they want with their money, the process of buying upwards would allow them to make a more informed decision of what gains to expect when they decide to really spill the wallet.

anyway - just my 2 cents

 

[Lil' Knight]

Just done my impressions:

Gonna send them to JH tomorrow and begin the wait. Honestly, I don't think the JH13s would be better than my HD800 or O2 but who knows

 

[rlanger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as the Stax, it is just that: my humble opinion. The first time I listened to an SR-007, it was probably the only time I have had a wow! experience. The soundstage and clarity are unmatched, to my ears. Custom IEM's on the other hand, do some things much better than large headphones, and you can take them with you. It would be tough if I had to make a choice between the 2 since I could not part with either of them.

This is definitely my experience with the 13s compared to my experience demoing the Stax over a couple of hours. The soundstage is certainly something to behold on the Stax.

I've also said in this thread that as best that I could remember, I thought that the Stax, Orpheus and R10s gave me an experience that I find unmatched with the 13s. However, that was from memory only, and over short listening sessions. I don't have these cans at home to do a direct comparison.

Having said that, the 13s do some things better than those cans, and, at a far more affordable price. And as you say, they are portable, and I can take them with me anywhere.

If I had to choose, I would pick the 13s over any of the cans I mentioned. In fact, I did!

 

[hockeyb213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiaoipower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally I don't think that music_4321 meant to be patronising or condescending to youngsters. In all fairness his general advice is quite valid, younger people are more likely to be less experienced with the various gears being talked about. We've lived a shorter period of time so chances are we haven't played the (aural) field as much. I think there is certainly a danger of less experienced members being more susceptible to the various hyperbole/effusive praise thrown around any new and highly regarded piece of gear. Chances are if you haven't bought some of the lower end/mid range stuff you'll not be aware of the degree to which performance increments compared to the extra doll you fork over. Not wishing to put words in his mouth, but I think the point music_4321 is trying to make is that the 'hype' that can be left on more impressionable 'newbies' can lead to people thinking they must jump straight to the best. Whilst they have every right to do what they want with their money, the process of buying upwards would allow them to make a more informed decision of what gains to expect when they decide to really spill the wallet. anyway - just my 2 cents

But to generalize because of age is not fair either. If somebody is 20 and they have been a audiophile since they were 10 and you look at a 40 year old who has been a audiophile for a couple of years it just means that their age is different not their experience. What would make one think that age allows somebody to have a better understanding of music? If anything kids would be the more reliable source since our hearing is better at younger ages.... not that I care I just don't like generalization that is based on false pretenses.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But to generalize because of age is not fair either. If somebody is 20 and they have been a audiophile since they were 10 and you look at a 40 year old who has been a audiophile for a couple of years it just means that their age is different not their experience. What would make one think that age allows somebody to have a better understanding of music? If anything kids would be the more reliable source since our hearing is better at younger ages.... not that I care I just don't like generalization that is based on false pretenses.

Normally with age our understanding of music AND most other things deepens.

Do not confuse understanding with better hearing or being better at something. You may be the fastest guitar player out there but you might still be a bad/ mediocre musician. Somebody - old or young - may not be an audiophile, yet they may have a much deeper understanding of music & what music is about.

Perhaps you should go back and read some of my posts a little more slowly, and take a little time to think about them. But, then again, it's hard to ask a 16-year-old to do just that -- no offence - seriously.

 

[jelt2359]

By definition all generalisations are false to some degree.

It's 'to what degree' that matters.

Back to the topic, how will the photo engraving machine affect the artwork? With the machine, does it mean all art will simply be engraved and not hand-painted?

BTW, I continue to be confused about how the turnaround time is supposed to be 2-3 weeks, but anecdotal evidence from head-fiers seems to very much suggest otherwise.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Normally with age our understanding of music AND most other things deepens. Do not confuse understanding with better hearing or being better at something. You may be the fastest guitar player out there but you might still be a bad/ mediocre musician. Somebody - old or young - may not be an audiophile, yet they may have a much deeper understanding of music & what music is about. Perhaps you should go back and read some of my posts a little more slowly, and take a little time to think about them. But, then again, it's hard to ask a 16-year-old to do just that -- no offence - seriously.

I agree to that in parts, but to some extent i probably have more experience and been to high-end audio equipment a lot more than a lot of people here despite being 15. I grew up being taught about Audio by by dad since i was 4, didn't get decent earphones till years after but how stuff works and how stuff sound out of speakers is what i grew up to.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also have a hard time accepting that kind of statements. I did listen to the universal version of the JH13 and yes they were great, but not really much different than the ES3X and miles behind the Stax phones. Some of the statements are too flourished and embellished. I would like to read more unbiased, unemotional and mature reviews. No offense intended but it reminds me of mass hysteria.

I can tell you right now that a properly fitting JH13Pro's sound quality is well above the universal demo version, and fairly different from the ES3X. I've said before that I think I must have had a poor fit with the demos, because to my ears they didn't sound anywhere near as good as the finished/properly fitted version that I just received about 10 days ago.

Iron_Dreamer is not the only person to feel that these custom IEM compare favorably to the benchmark full size phones like R10, L3000, O2 Mk1, HE90, or even HD800 and K1000 and others.

I will try to make my review as "unbiased, unemotional and mature" as I can. Right now I have so many notes that I am having trouble putting it all together, but this is the main review that I am working on now (I have 4 other reviews that will wait for this one to be done).

 

[boomana]

Guys, let's leave the age topic out of this thread from here on out. It's a good one for the members' lounge, if someone cares to start it, but not here.

Regarding other topic: I have R10s, and O2MK1s. No, the JH13s do not equal them when they're in rigs that allow them their best, but if I'm looking for an all-rounder headphone that gets extremely close to the sq of the "big boys" and that doesn't also require even pricier components to bring out its best qualities, I'm going to say JH13s. I do consider them high-end headphones. I do put them on the same level. The O2s are very different in sound signature than R10s, but both are superb. The JH13s don't have the seductive tone and mind-blowing imaging of the R10s. They don't have the depth or speed of O2s (though only, imo, revealed when paired with non-stax amps). They do, however, have pretty much everything sq-wise I require from a headphone, and don't require the $10K I've got in each home rig. Considering the JH13s versatility and their excellent sound quality in tone, detail, balance, imaging, extension, etc., I really do think that in their own way, just like the legendary headphones, they deserve the superlative comments they're receiving. That's not even adding in the fact that there's no need for multi-thousand dollar amps and sources. No, they are not like R10s, 010s, HE90s, HP2s, L3000s, K1000s, O2s, HD800s, but none of those headphones are like each other, each with different strengths and flaws. We tend like the headphones with the flaws we can tolerate, while drawn to one's strengths over others due to personal taste. The JH13s only flaw that I've found is that they're not full-size headphones, which is also one of their strengths. If Jerry could rig up the drivers to fit that kind of enclosure, I'd buy it immediately.

I haven't posted much about these because, in truth, I like them too much to say anything calmly yet. I've been listening daily since I got them a few weeks ago. I've also been using my UE11s near daily at the gym, but started bringing the JH13s because I want that sound, and the isolation is good enough that I missed it. Egad. That's all I have to say for now.

 

[hockeyb213]

Yeah well even stepping aside from comparing them to full-size cans does any iem even come that close to the jh-13's? I mean just like on the top end full size all the different top end customs have their differences but that is the point it is the best that you can get that you can put in a pants pocket and walk out the door with. I really do believe that if Jerry wanted to compete with those full-size cans he would have. I don't think that was what he was aiming for though

.

 

[roy_jones]

On the issue of comparing the JH13 to other top end headphones- I have no doubt that the reviews are valid.

When I see someone with little exposure to a wide variety of gear offer a review of a product, while I appreciate their effort, I usually don't read it. It could be said that one's opinion on any piece of audio equipment is only as good as the reviewers breadth of experience with other equipment.

That's why people like HeadphoneAddict are literally invaluable to a community like this. Also, once you've heard a wide range of stuff, you're usually less prone to FOTM syndrome. Product allegiance tends to decrease, while overall value and quality takes on greater weight.

As a result, I'd say the more veteran posters who have given positive reviews for the JH13 makes the generally excellent response the JH13 has received all the more powerful. I've never seen anything like it since I've been on head-fi. Quite unique.

In terms of the issue of younger teenagers buying high-end customs, while I generally agree with music_4321, personally, I find it humorous. The funniest example being pila's crisis of conscience over whether to purchase the JH13 a month or so after buying the ES3X, probably as a result of some of the more emotionally-based reviews that have been made here.

music_4321, come to the darkside! How many 16 year olds do you know that can realistically justify the sunk cost of a $1100 custom? Maybe the answer to that question can help to explain the zeal that you run up against when you call into question that very quixotic truism. Ultimately, that segment of the market helps underwrite part of our own cost with these products.

 

[boomana]

I think that the comparison to full-size headphones is a valid one, especially because I believe that they can 100% replace most (not all) full-size headphones by simply being better in every way. Again, that's not even adding in the fact that they're portable or that they sound damn good with just an ipod. They not only compete, but wipe the floor with almost all I've heard.

 

[hockeyb213]

Yeah I hope they did too because I took a big step in making them my go to headphone. Just saying that for what the main purpose of them be which is to be portable nothing else puts their hands on them and are a steal for the price tag...

 

[Crazyguy106]

I could make out a world of difference between a UM3X and an ES3X that wasn't even mine. So yup.

Anyway I think that the reason why people believe that the JH13s are able to fight with the top, is the data retrieval, accuracy and speed that is highly heightened when you're using an IEM.

Like stated before (I forgot by who, oops) when you can take out the outer ear and design things to be much simpler and direct, you can deliver clean, clear, fuss-free sound into the ears and give a much more balanced sound. To me, personal take, soundstage is actually often derogatory to the way the music sound. But that comes from a person who does want to hear every nuance in the orchestra, jazz group, chamber ensemble and band that goes on. I prefer to be on stage with all these people and enjoy it that way. Being part of every single of of those groups before, and still being in them, I know how it sounds, feel and is truly like. And I count using my JH13s as my ear-training half the time because the intonation of the piano in different recordings can sound amazingly out of tune because of the JH13s. Which is what I love about the JH13s, because it turns everything into truly an art. How the voicings on the piano, the orchestra and all can sound different according to the intonation of the instruments at that time. And yes, these are things I listen out for, and why I love the JH13s so much because they give me such information much more than any other earphones/headphones have given me, even when I test them excessively.

If you want the truly objective side of audio which doesn't give so much on "musicality" and "smooth" all the other subjective terms, I don't think an audiophile community is where you really want to look for your opinions and ideas. You should go to a sound engineering community.

And as for whether Beatles are the best band ever? Technically? No. But for the effects and marks they have left on the world, you can easily put them at the top. Music/interpretation may be subjective to individual, but if you can analyse how the band works, how consistent they are, their song-writing abilities, their tightness, their intonation, and the list goes on, you can say that Beatles were amazing for their time and their song-writing till now is one of the best. So if you want to go about subjective stuff, the arguments can last forever. But if you work on the details and what is truly objective and spend time doing it and actually realise that there are things which are objective and obvious hard facts, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.

That's something for everyone to think about, especially on this forum.

Anyway regarding skeptics, I truly believe that skeptics should try everything that they don't believe in because you won't know till you try. I usually don't trust others' opinions, so therefore I try things. And usually because I try things I end up buying them because I realise that they do work, amazingly well for me if I may add.

And regarding all the things about musicianship and ears and all. Yes, everyone, including the old-timers here at Head-Fi do have different levels of audio sensitivity and level of abilities. It's something that is natural, like musicianship and taste. So until you can hear the difference for yourself, you can feel free to hold back on your spending, or just wait till your ears hear it, if it can ever hear it.

 

[jamato8]

I emailed recently to someone recently that the 13's are great but still throw a type of head stage. Then this afternoon I had to the mall, gag (sorry I don't really like malls very much) and I was getting very much out of head sound and staging that was very convincing. I find that while the 13's sound great out of my modified iRiver H140 with Black Gate caps or my other iRiver with some special SMD caps, a great amp can still bring it to even greater heights. I find that as an enjoyable listening instrument it is also a great tool though often the sound takes me away from what I may at the moment, be testing. Not a bad thing though. :^)