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Headphoneus Supremus
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JH Audio Freqphase, who's upgraded from the older models?
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goodvibes
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
I know you may not want to do too much brand comparison stuff but since you own(ed) both vesions of the 13, Can we have your take on the change?
I know you may not want to do too much brand comparison stuff but since you own(ed) both vesions of the 13, Can we have your take on the change?
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Exactly. They upgraded the 2013 Nissan GT-R (and, no, I don't own one). I think if I owned a 2012 model, I'd still be able to find great happiness. (I drove one recently, and, yes, I can say with great certainty that I'd be just fine with the ol' 2012.)
I ate a fortune cookie recently, and this quote was in it: "The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more." (I actually used a document scanner to scan that fortune.)
Quote:
Okay, assuming one has the pre-freqphase and is dead set on picking up the freqphase version, I'm very confident that person would be thrilled. The upgrade in sound is as substantial to the changes in its construction.
I do have a pre-freqphase JH13 Pro and the freqphase version. Those I know who've so far heard both have been wowed by the latter in comparison, and the original JH13 Pro was already outstanding--I'm of the same mind. The imaging is more precise. Resolution is improved--it is now the most resolving of all the in-ears I've yet heard, and one of the most resolving headphones I've heard regardless of form factor. Over the last few days, I've been listening to the freqphase JH13 Pro directly from the Benchmark DAC2 HGC a lot, and its detail retrieval (and imaging) is amazing. I took it with me to some Chesky recording sessions a couple of weeks ago for live monitoring.
The pre-freqphase version is no less outstanding than it was before freqphase. But the freqphase version is, to my ears, no doubt better.
goodvibes
Headphoneus Supremus
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Makes me anxious, thanks. I won't ask for your opinion on HiDef.
3X0
Headphoneus Supremus
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I'd be willing to pay ~$400 to have my 13s redone in the FP configuration.
I suspect that if they did a cost-benefit analysis they'd come out ahead if they offered a logical upgrade price, considering the number of owners that wouldn't buy a new pair outright but would easily cough up an upgrade price.
I suspect that if they did a cost-benefit analysis they'd come out ahead if they offered a logical upgrade price, considering the number of owners that wouldn't buy a new pair outright but would easily cough up an upgrade price.
Todd R
Headphoneus Supremus
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They are having a sale right now in case you're thinking about it.
goodvibes
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
You could sell your old ones off for enough to beat that difference with the current sale. It's been noted that it's not something that they can reasonably do. I suspect when they rebuild for fit reasons they reuse a fixed driver template related that has now changed. At some point it becomes practically not feasable.
You could sell your old ones off for enough to beat that difference with the current sale. It's been noted that it's not something that they can reasonably do. I suspect when they rebuild for fit reasons they reuse a fixed driver template related that has now changed. At some point it becomes practically not feasable.
Todd R
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Quote:
True.
I was able to sell my old 16's for a pretty good price which made paying for my new 13's a lot less painful.
True.
I was able to sell my old 16's for a pretty good price which made paying for my new 13's a lot less painful.
goodvibes
Headphoneus Supremus
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Perhaps just a coincidence but that they came out wth these before the Black Friday and New Year deal is a good thing and makes the swap quite reasonable for those that have the need.
tigon_ridge
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Quote:
I don't see how any business should be obligated to give a discount to their existing customers for new flagship products. It's clear that the nature of this "upgrade" dictates that the FP models are constructed very differently from the bottom up, rather than just making a simple tweak. Unless one is with JHA, one doesn't know the cost/benefit analysis involved in executing such an upgrade. JHA has a ton of customers who own a JH13/16; if they dole out a significant "upgrade discount," they might become completely swamped with new orders that may not even be profitable enough (if at all) to be worth the headache. They gave you the product and service that you agreed to paid for - no more, no less. Call me crazy, but I call that a fair deal.
I don't see how any business should be obligated to give a discount to their existing customers for new flagship products. It's clear that the nature of this "upgrade" dictates that the FP models are constructed very differently from the bottom up, rather than just making a simple tweak. Unless one is with JHA, one doesn't know the cost/benefit analysis involved in executing such an upgrade. JHA has a ton of customers who own a JH13/16; if they dole out a significant "upgrade discount," they might become completely swamped with new orders that may not even be profitable enough (if at all) to be worth the headache. They gave you the product and service that you agreed to paid for - no more, no less. Call me crazy, but I call that a fair deal.
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Hey guys, I posted my early review of the JH16 Freq-phase on another forum a few weeks ago. I'm having two coats of acrylic added to the right side, although the seal is pretty good and I can only break the seal when I yawn, plus it seals right up when I'm done yawning. I'm also adding some artwork. Since I wanted to do a bigger review but it's delayed for this work, I want to post a mini-review now. Actually, as I read over this, for some people this could be the whole review on it's own. Tell me what you guys think.
MINI-REVIEW JH16Pro Freq-phase:
I have to say the JH16Pro Freq-phase are outstanding. < That's the short version for those who would post TL
NR (too long did not read).
Associated Gear: My impressions are with my iPad 3 using lossless music and Pico Slim with TWag LOD, as well as with CCK and Pico DAC, and also right from the headphone jack of the iPad 3, iPad mini, and iPhone 5.
Build and Fit: I originally wanted them in clear acrylic like my first JH13Pro, and think I mentioned that they could add an inconspicuous logo if they wanted to - so I got the Freq-phase logo in thin black lines which is hard to see. The right monitor is slightly looser than the left, but it's almost impossible to break the seal with extreme facial contortions. The only time the right seal breaks is when I yawn, and when I'm done yawning it automagically seals again without touching them (sucking sound and all).
My only issue was that sometimes it feels like the left side was very slightly louder than the right, unless I'd press the right monitor in about 1mm. At first I was worried that the volume was different due to the looser fit on the right, but then after trying a few more IEM I realize that over time I have developed very slightly more hearing loss and tinnitus on the right than the left. Sucks to be me (at 50 years old). The more I worked with the placement and position, I was able to get proper channel balance vs my other IEM, especially when I wrapped some Saran-wrap around the ear-piece stem on the right.
Efficiency is good, and I usually have the iPad volume set between 30-50%, and never more than 60%. I once tried pushing the iPad well past 70% volume and the sound gets bright and harsh, in addition to being too loud, although the bass doesn't falter. Switching to the Pico Slim showed much better high volume performance than what the un-amped iPad can offer, which is not unexpected, as well as higher volumes than a sane person can stand. Regardless, the un-amped iPad can deliver higher clean sounding volume levels with these than I would normally listen. Despite the efficiency, they still have less hiss than my ES3X with noisy desktop amps (i.e. ALO Amphora, Nuforce DAC-100).
Performance: Performance is nothing short of outstanding. I can't think of anything I would change in these. Sure, if I hear something better in the future I'll know it, but my wish list is empty right now.
BASS - In comparison to my old JH13Pro from 2009 which came out on top in my "Three Flagship Custom IEM Review", these have better mid-bass impact and presence. And they do a better job of connecting the deep bass hump to the mid and upper-bass, without bleeding into the midrange. And in no way is the bass overdone. The JH16Pro FP have a bass that's deep, fast, powerful, impactful, and blends perfectly into the mid-bass and upper-bass. It completely avoids the excessive mid-bass hump of the UE11Pro, and seems to offer the mid-bass impact of the ES5 + the deep bass extension of the JH13Pro.
With my JH13Pro I would sometimes feel like I had a subwoofer in the room that was crossed over too low, with a small gap in the mid or upper bass as the sound transitioned into the midrange. The old JH13Pro have a big deep-bass thump but not quite as much punch higher up. It was like a slight disconnect was there - the acoustic string bass thump often came from everywhere but not always in relation to the more directional sound of the string pluck, fret slap, and scratch of the fingers on strings. Not so with the JH16Pro FP. It's all perfectly connected and seamless.
Midrange - The JH16Pro FP's midrange is also more present and lively than the JH13Pro, while the JH13Pro's mids are really sweet but sometimes a little distant. One reason I was preferring my ES5 lately over the JH13Pro was their improved mid-bass impact but also their warmer, richer, and fuller mids. The ES5 mids felt more vivid but not as forward as the ES3X, and were warmer sounding than ES3X to boot. The JH16Pro FP give me all that and more. They seem a little more transparent and not quite as forward as even the ES5, although improved in presence over the JH13Pro. Goldilocks would say this is just right. And the very small or mild upper mids peak in the ES5 is not present with the JH16Pro FP, making them more transparent than ES5 as well.
Treble - The highs are smooth and refined, but with exceptional detail and sparkle, yet not rounded at the edges of the attacks despite their silky smoothness. They're probably a little smoother than my ES5, which are excellent with good material and sources but can sometimes be a little irritating or brutal with some bad recordings, although the ES5 are still an improvement over the ES3X in that regard. Both Westone IEM are brutally revealing with bad recordings, while the JH13Pro and JH16Pro are a little more forgiving while giving up nothing. You can still tell if the recording is poor, but it doesn't get on your nerves as easily.
Imaging and soundstage is good for an IEM, and I really can't ever pinpoint the sound as coming from tiny little speakers in my ear canal. Everything sounds coherent, and as if it's coming from sources both inside and outside of my head, with their own point source of origin. With IEM I never get as much outside of the head imaging as I do with the HD800, SR-009 and HE-60, but almost all of my custom IEM are superior in this respect to my universal IEM. It's too early to definitively say how this compares to my ES5 and JH13Pro or the others, but at the moment I'd say the out of head imaging is the best of my custom IEM.
Summary - The JH13Pro, ES5 and JH16Pro FP are not terribly far apart in performance and enjoyment (at least with my sets), but they are distinctly different in some areas. So far I give the nod to the JH16Pro for their accuracy, transparency and balance. I enjoy all three IEM a great bit, and I still prefer the ES5 + older JH13Pro over the ES3X and UE11Pro (as I did in my 2009 three flagship customs review). But, if I had to pick just one the JH16Pro FP would be it - but It may not be the same for you.
My ES3X and UE11Pro are still quite nice, but they are not at the same level of performance as the above IEM, and they really don't see much use anymore. The ES3X and UE11Pro still make a nice set of backup monitors for me, but when one is spending this much money on custom IEM it just makes sense to go for one of the 2-3 top-tier customs. I've heard demo sets of UE18Pro and UERM at RMAF, as well as some 1964 Ears and Unique Melody demos, but I don't know how the full custom would sound and nothing in the demo reached out and grabbed me saying, BUY ME. When I compared the JH13Pro Freq-phase demo to the JH16Pro Freq-phase demos at RMAF, I could still hear the basic sound signature differences between the 13 and 16 that said buy the 16's.
MINI-REVIEW JH16Pro Freq-phase:
I have to say the JH16Pro Freq-phase are outstanding. < That's the short version for those who would post TL
NR (too long did not read). Associated Gear: My impressions are with my iPad 3 using lossless music and Pico Slim with TWag LOD, as well as with CCK and Pico DAC, and also right from the headphone jack of the iPad 3, iPad mini, and iPhone 5.
Build and Fit: I originally wanted them in clear acrylic like my first JH13Pro, and think I mentioned that they could add an inconspicuous logo if they wanted to - so I got the Freq-phase logo in thin black lines which is hard to see. The right monitor is slightly looser than the left, but it's almost impossible to break the seal with extreme facial contortions. The only time the right seal breaks is when I yawn, and when I'm done yawning it automagically seals again without touching them (sucking sound and all).
My only issue was that sometimes it feels like the left side was very slightly louder than the right, unless I'd press the right monitor in about 1mm. At first I was worried that the volume was different due to the looser fit on the right, but then after trying a few more IEM I realize that over time I have developed very slightly more hearing loss and tinnitus on the right than the left. Sucks to be me (at 50 years old). The more I worked with the placement and position, I was able to get proper channel balance vs my other IEM, especially when I wrapped some Saran-wrap around the ear-piece stem on the right.
Efficiency is good, and I usually have the iPad volume set between 30-50%, and never more than 60%. I once tried pushing the iPad well past 70% volume and the sound gets bright and harsh, in addition to being too loud, although the bass doesn't falter. Switching to the Pico Slim showed much better high volume performance than what the un-amped iPad can offer, which is not unexpected, as well as higher volumes than a sane person can stand. Regardless, the un-amped iPad can deliver higher clean sounding volume levels with these than I would normally listen. Despite the efficiency, they still have less hiss than my ES3X with noisy desktop amps (i.e. ALO Amphora, Nuforce DAC-100).
Performance: Performance is nothing short of outstanding. I can't think of anything I would change in these. Sure, if I hear something better in the future I'll know it, but my wish list is empty right now.
BASS - In comparison to my old JH13Pro from 2009 which came out on top in my "Three Flagship Custom IEM Review", these have better mid-bass impact and presence. And they do a better job of connecting the deep bass hump to the mid and upper-bass, without bleeding into the midrange. And in no way is the bass overdone. The JH16Pro FP have a bass that's deep, fast, powerful, impactful, and blends perfectly into the mid-bass and upper-bass. It completely avoids the excessive mid-bass hump of the UE11Pro, and seems to offer the mid-bass impact of the ES5 + the deep bass extension of the JH13Pro.
With my JH13Pro I would sometimes feel like I had a subwoofer in the room that was crossed over too low, with a small gap in the mid or upper bass as the sound transitioned into the midrange. The old JH13Pro have a big deep-bass thump but not quite as much punch higher up. It was like a slight disconnect was there - the acoustic string bass thump often came from everywhere but not always in relation to the more directional sound of the string pluck, fret slap, and scratch of the fingers on strings. Not so with the JH16Pro FP. It's all perfectly connected and seamless.
Midrange - The JH16Pro FP's midrange is also more present and lively than the JH13Pro, while the JH13Pro's mids are really sweet but sometimes a little distant. One reason I was preferring my ES5 lately over the JH13Pro was their improved mid-bass impact but also their warmer, richer, and fuller mids. The ES5 mids felt more vivid but not as forward as the ES3X, and were warmer sounding than ES3X to boot. The JH16Pro FP give me all that and more. They seem a little more transparent and not quite as forward as even the ES5, although improved in presence over the JH13Pro. Goldilocks would say this is just right. And the very small or mild upper mids peak in the ES5 is not present with the JH16Pro FP, making them more transparent than ES5 as well.
Treble - The highs are smooth and refined, but with exceptional detail and sparkle, yet not rounded at the edges of the attacks despite their silky smoothness. They're probably a little smoother than my ES5, which are excellent with good material and sources but can sometimes be a little irritating or brutal with some bad recordings, although the ES5 are still an improvement over the ES3X in that regard. Both Westone IEM are brutally revealing with bad recordings, while the JH13Pro and JH16Pro are a little more forgiving while giving up nothing. You can still tell if the recording is poor, but it doesn't get on your nerves as easily.
Imaging and soundstage is good for an IEM, and I really can't ever pinpoint the sound as coming from tiny little speakers in my ear canal. Everything sounds coherent, and as if it's coming from sources both inside and outside of my head, with their own point source of origin. With IEM I never get as much outside of the head imaging as I do with the HD800, SR-009 and HE-60, but almost all of my custom IEM are superior in this respect to my universal IEM. It's too early to definitively say how this compares to my ES5 and JH13Pro or the others, but at the moment I'd say the out of head imaging is the best of my custom IEM.
Summary - The JH13Pro, ES5 and JH16Pro FP are not terribly far apart in performance and enjoyment (at least with my sets), but they are distinctly different in some areas. So far I give the nod to the JH16Pro for their accuracy, transparency and balance. I enjoy all three IEM a great bit, and I still prefer the ES5 + older JH13Pro over the ES3X and UE11Pro (as I did in my 2009 three flagship customs review). But, if I had to pick just one the JH16Pro FP would be it - but It may not be the same for you.
My ES3X and UE11Pro are still quite nice, but they are not at the same level of performance as the above IEM, and they really don't see much use anymore. The ES3X and UE11Pro still make a nice set of backup monitors for me, but when one is spending this much money on custom IEM it just makes sense to go for one of the 2-3 top-tier customs. I've heard demo sets of UE18Pro and UERM at RMAF, as well as some 1964 Ears and Unique Melody demos, but I don't know how the full custom would sound and nothing in the demo reached out and grabbed me saying, BUY ME. When I compared the JH13Pro Freq-phase demo to the JH16Pro Freq-phase demos at RMAF, I could still hear the basic sound signature differences between the 13 and 16 that said buy the 16's.
moseboy
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Great review, HPA. Thank you very much for posting. As I already have the ES5, this has me very interested in the Freqphase JHA customs. What about the sound signature differences between the 13 and the 16 made you want the 16s instead?
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Quote:
It was the fuller, richer and more vivid mids with improved filling of the mid-bass gap vs the JH13. I first heard this improvement in the mids and mid-bass over my JH13 with the JH16 demos at RMAF 2011, which started my scheming to upgrade eventually. The JH16Pro seem like a hybrid mix between the ES5 and the JH13Pro, with all the best traits and none of the less good traits.
I was waiting for a year to see what was going to happen with the JH3A, but with so many good source and amps in my collection, and the freq-phase handling the phase alignment now, I wasn't sure the JH3A was what i needed. I'd love to have the JH3A, but would have to use an optical to coax or USB to coax adapter with my Macbook pro, although I could feed my iPod digital dock right into the JH3A coax input. Sometimes it's nice to be able to just use the IEM with a simple MP3 player and no complicated amp. At least the new JH3A IEM can do that with a simple 3.5mm adapter now. Cost is still a barrier though.
It was the fuller, richer and more vivid mids with improved filling of the mid-bass gap vs the JH13. I first heard this improvement in the mids and mid-bass over my JH13 with the JH16 demos at RMAF 2011, which started my scheming to upgrade eventually. The JH16Pro seem like a hybrid mix between the ES5 and the JH13Pro, with all the best traits and none of the less good traits.
I was waiting for a year to see what was going to happen with the JH3A, but with so many good source and amps in my collection, and the freq-phase handling the phase alignment now, I wasn't sure the JH3A was what i needed. I'd love to have the JH3A, but would have to use an optical to coax or USB to coax adapter with my Macbook pro, although I could feed my iPod digital dock right into the JH3A coax input. Sometimes it's nice to be able to just use the IEM with a simple MP3 player and no complicated amp. At least the new JH3A IEM can do that with a simple 3.5mm adapter now. Cost is still a barrier though.
Todd R
Headphoneus Supremus
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Hey guys,
I'd like to also say that I've been very happy with the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V1 IEM Headphone Cable on JH13 FP.
Although I can't describe sounds as well as Larry did, I can say this cable basically makes everything better without throwing the tonal balance out of whack like some other cables I've tried. It's also quite manageable and will pretty much stay coiled when stored.
I'd like to also say that I've been very happy with the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V1 IEM Headphone Cable on JH13 FP.
Although I can't describe sounds as well as Larry did, I can say this cable basically makes everything better without throwing the tonal balance out of whack like some other cables I've tried. It's also quite manageable and will pretty much stay coiled when stored.
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