[kimsnet4]

Hi guys~ 
I currently own westone 4R and i'm looking for CIEM to buy for the first time.
I followed this thread for some quite time to decide between JH 13 and JH 16.
I still didn't make up my mind between the two TT. 

i understand JH 13 is more natural than JH 16 and that 16s have more bass and they are more for bass heads.
But because I can't get an opportunity to actually sit down and carefully listen to both of them to make up my mind, all i can do is to compare them with the current IEM that i use (W4R)
 
Can someone enlighten me which one i should go for?
 
I prefer neutral sound over a bassy sound but i am not implying that I do not like bass. In other words, i am afraid that 13s might sound "too" neutral and lacks too much bass so the music might sound boring; on the other hand, im afraid that 16s might sound too bass heavy for my preference.
I prefer sound that is balanced with clarity and enough bass for the music to sound interesting.
Im sure every CIEM has its pros and cons, but i would very much appreciate people's opinions XD 
 
P.S. I find W4R balanced but lacks a bit of clarity and treble. Also, lacks a bit of "thump" in bass, but the overall bass (called sub-bass?.. im kinda new to this XD sorry) is ok. 

 

[wmyjkl]

The new JH16 has changed the sound, I think is much better than before.

 

[Spyro]

Both JH13 and JH16 will be MUCH better in terms of clarity as neither suffer from cloudy mids.
 
JH13 is more for the "neutral and balanced" type of person while JH16 is still balanced but a bit heavier sounding with an enveloping fullness throughout.
 
JH13 is the fastest most detailed and transparent IEM I have ever heard.  Part of the reason for this is it lacks midbass but does have decent sub bass.  Quite frankly I thought it sounded a little off and could have used more midbass.
 
JH16 actually sounds more balanced to my ears.  Really holographic and out of this world type of presentation.
 
Coming from W4 both would be an upgrade.

 

[kimsnet4]

Thank you for your input =]

im leaning toward the jh16 hmm ive heard that 13s can sound too neutral for some people because of its lack of mid bass; even sound analytical for some..

does the 16 sound too bassy when you listen to it in a quiet environment? 
i heard 13s are better in a quiet room and 16s are better in a loud environment (say a concert).
what i mean is, is the bass too much when you listen to it in a quiet room
oh and i heard you can hear alot of "hiss" from 16s is that true?

 

[kimsnet4]

Quote:

Both JH13 and JH16 will be MUCH better in terms of clarity as neither suffer from cloudy mids.
 
JH13 is more for the "neutral and balanced" type of person while JH16 is still balanced but a bit heavier sounding with an enveloping fullness throughout.
 
JH13 is the fastest most detailed and transparent IEM I have ever heard.  Part of the reason for this is it lacks midbass but does have decent sub bass.  Quite frankly I thought it sounded a little off and could have used more midbass.
 
JH16 actually sounds more balanced to my ears.  Really holographic and out of this world type of presentation.
 
Coming from W4 both would be an upgrade.

Thank you for your input =]

im leaning toward the jh16 hmm ive heard that 13s can sound too neutral for some people because of its lack of mid bass; even sound analytical for some..

does the 16 sound too bassy when you listen to it in a quiet environment? 
i heard 13s are better in a quiet room and 16s are better in a loud environment (say a concert).
what i mean is, is the bass too much when you listen to it in a quiet room
oh and i heard you can hear alot of "hiss" from 16s is that true?

 

[chesterljh]

i would say go for UM miracle..
 
i found the potential of JH iems very limited...ii had a JH13 but was sad about its potential...

 

[goodvibes]

The 13 improved more than the 16 in the new versions. The 13 is anything but bass shy. I and Spyro have different tastes. He prefers a bit more extra bass than I do. The 13 will have less midbass than your 4 but more low bass. It's accurate to source as it would sound in a normal free air environment. A string bass sounds like the instrument depending of course on the quality of your source. Jerry himself says as much and that the 16 is for noisier environment like the stage.
If you look at the above graph, the green line is Golden ears theoretical ideal bass response curve. That is very close to what the 13 will look like with maybe a couple more DB.. Here's the older 16. Phase is better now but response will be similar. They have their chosen responses for a reason

 
Here's a vid that talks about it.

 

[Spyro]

Goodvibes....that is a great video!  Thanks for sharing!

 

[IA64]

I was in the same boat as you and picket the Jh16 over the UM Miracle and JH13's ( delivery in 1 week - rush fee ) 
 
Although I care a lot about details and clarity but I can't tolerate a neutral flat sound. From the FR graphs I've seen, the signature of the JH13's is not my taste. 
 
I do understand that sound neutrality has its advantage but in my case that would only be for the benefit of professional producers and mixers.
 
My honest opinion if you want to enjoy music, JH16's are the one to get. That's why some $1000+ customs sound boring compared to some relatively cheaper IEMs. it's all about the sound signature. I made that mistake with the Shure SE535 which has somehow a neutral , analytical mid-centric resolution and learned the lesson. It might be excellent for some kind of music but I never really enjoyed them. I guess the same logic applies to the tube vs solid state amplifiers.
 
I haven't tried the Jh16's yet but I messaged a guy on youtube who reviewed both the UM Miracle and JH16's with FP ; He didn't bother explaining the difference, he just replied : [ "The new JH16's are the best customs I've ever owned until today. Hope that gives you a better picture , goodluck " ]
 
Sound quality is however subjective and you won't find your taste unless you try. In my case I am putting my money on the JH16's and crossing my fingers. Will post my feedback as soon as I receive it.
 
As a side note, no offense to anyone but the fact that the UM customs are made in China wasn't very encouraging in my case. UM customs look great and I'm very positive about the build quality as per most reviews online however, I always feel concerned about the quality control and the material used. I could be wrong but that is only based on my experience.
 
Regards.

 

[klipschman70]

I too picked JH16 over JH13. JH16 in my opinion is not bass heavy at all. The lows are impactful and fast. However my JH16 is not the freqphase version.
 

 

[bwaterme]

I struggled with the same decision.  Ultimately I chose the JH13s.  I thought I wanted the more neutral sound signature, but I find myself bumping up the lows with an eq quite a bit.  Not sure had I gotten the 16s that it would be any different regarding bumping up the bass slightly.  
 
I will say the 13s can certainly handle just about any bass you throw at them.  When using a JDS C5 with bass boost on (+6 db at 85 Hz) the 13s handle the thundering bass with zero distortion.  
 
If I am being honest with myself, if I were doing it all over I would likely get the 16s.  

 

[kimsnet4]

Thank You guys for sharing your thoughts!!
This 13 vs 16 is an ungoing arguement for anyone whos willing to buy a CIEM
Haha XD

 

[kimsnet4]

Does anyone have thoughts on the "hiss" sound from 16s?
I know that becuz 16 is a really sensitive ciem that bad sources will give you bad sound with lots of hiss
But I just want to know if its too much or if its bearable

 

[kimsnet4]

Quote:

I was in the same boat as you and picket the Jh16 over the UM Miracle and JH13's ( delivery in 1 week - rush fee ) 
 
Although I care a lot about details and clarity but I can't tolerate a neutral flat sound. From the FR graphs I've seen, the signature of the JH13's is not my taste. 
 
I do understand that sound neutrality has its advantage but in my case that would only be for the benefit of professional producers and mixers.
 
My honest opinion if you want to enjoy music, JH16's are the one to get. That's why some $1000+ customs sound boring compared to some relatively cheaper IEMs. it's all about the sound signature. I made that mistake with the Shure SE535 which has somehow a neutral , analytical mid-centric resolution and learned the lesson. It might be excellent for some kind of music but I never really enjoyed them. I guess the same logic applies to the tube vs solid state amplifiers.
 
I haven't tried the Jh16's yet but I messaged a guy on youtube who reviewed both the UM Miracle and JH16's with FP ; He didn't bother explaining the difference, he just replied : [ "The new JH16's are the best customs I've ever owned until today. Hope that gives you a better picture , goodluck " ]
 
Sound quality is however subjective and you won't find your taste unless you try. In my case I am putting my money on the JH16's and crossing my fingers. Will post my feedback as soon as I receive it.
 
As a side note, no offense to anyone but the fact that the UM customs are made in China wasn't very encouraging in my case. UM customs look great and I'm very positive about the build quality as per most reviews online however, I always feel concerned about the quality control and the material used. I could be wrong but that is only based on my experience.
 
Regards.

Thank you for your input =]
could i ask you how much rush fee you paid to JHA for your jh16? XD
i live in canada and if the fee within my budget, i am considering it as well 

 

[kimsnet4]

Quote:

I struggled with the same decision.  Ultimately I chose the JH13s.  I thought I wanted the more neutral sound signature, but I find myself bumping up the lows with an eq quite a bit.  Not sure had I gotten the 16s that it would be any different regarding bumping up the bass slightly.  
 
I will say the 13s can certainly handle just about any bass you throw at them.  When using a JDS C5 with bass boost on (+6 db at 85 Hz) the 13s handle the thundering bass with zero distortion.  
 
If I am being honest with myself, if I were doing it all over I would likely get the 16s.  

thanks for your input =]
 
if you prefer neutrality over bass, but still want enough bass so that you don't get bored
which one would you go for may i ask? haha