[ironmine]

It's strange, but this new plugin DTS Neural UpMix sounds worse to me than another, quite old 2.0>5.1 upmixer called "Stereo to V.I. converter".
 
Here's how I do it now for Denon D2000. This is the full VST chain in Console:
 

 
The first VST is DDMF Metaplugin (www.ddmf.eu/product.php?id=3) oversampled x2 with Chris Walton's oversampler (see its description here http://sites.google.com/site/chrisrwalton/oversampler).
 

 
Oversampling is recommended to improve the quality of the sound processing. Inside the Meta Plugin I put the following VST effects:
 

http://www.stevethomson.ca/vi/
 
Here you can see the settings I prefer currently (I don't like the rear channels to be loud). After the 2.0 signal is converted to 5.1 it is fed to Isone Pro Surround:
 

 
I prefer to set the cabinet type to Sub/Sat (High-End), as it sounds more realistic/less muddy to me than the default flat setting.
 
Then I apply my personalized EQ settings to get rid of headphone resonance:
 

 
After that the signal gets downsampled x2 and comes out of the Metaplugin and it must be monitored for clipping and, if necessary, adjusted. I do it with Sonalksis FreeG Stereo:
 

 
Now the signal is ready to be dithered back to 16 bits using Sonalksis Ultimate-D:
 

 
The sound is very enjoyable. After I switch back, for comparison, to bypass mode in George Yohng's VST chainer, the sound becomes hollow and unbearable to my ears (it feels like it is coming from a big-sized concrete pipe).
 
Please do not try to mimic the same settings which I use, as everybody has got his/her own taste, anatomically different ears and headphone types/models. All the settings in Stereo to V.I. converter, Isone Pro, EQ must be found by way of experimenting and hearing what sounds best to you.

 

[chinesekiwi]

 
Quote:

Please do not try to mimic the same settings which I use, as everybody has got his/her own taste, anatomically different ears and headphone types/models. All the settings in Stereo to V.I. converter, Isone Pro, EQ must be found by way of experimenting and hearing what sounds best to you.

Very correct. A great way to calibrate Isone Pro in terms of HRTF is well, to use your speakers. Set the cue strength to zero as your pinna is the best indicator of your HRTF and adjust the head size until it sounds no different (I mean no different, not 'it's close enough' or 'minor difference') from the speaker setup with it bypassed or not bypassed.

 

[leeperry]

 

It's strange, but this new plugin DTS Neural UpMix sounds worse [..] for Denon D2000.

 
The mids are grossly recessed on that phone...you really wanna wake them up:
 
But even w/ EQ, I still prefer to listen to a dishwasher.

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

But even w/ EQ, I still prefer to listen to a dishwasher.

Now I understand your reference point

 

[bdh]

Regarding the Sonnox EQ, etc., the Sonnox is a 5-band EQ and the Waves SSL is a 4-band EQ?  These are for just general EQing of the sound I assume?  What about if you want or need EQing of very specific frequencies?  I'm currently using the 30-band Starplug Master EQ, and with some wrangling, have gotten great sound from it, but wouldn't mind trying some other >12 band EQ VST's.  Anyone know of any?

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

Regarding the Sonnox EQ, etc., the Sonnox is a 5-band EQ and the Waves SSL is a 4-band EQ?  These are for just general EQing of the sound I assume?  What about if you want or need EQing of very specific frequencies?  I'm currently using the 30-band Starplug Master EQ, and with some wrangling, have gotten great sound from it, but wouldn't mind trying some other >12 band EQ VST's.  Anyone know of any?

Sonnox Oxford has 4 different modes (read its manual). If 5 bands are not enough for you, you can use more instances of the same plugin.
 
Try these VST equalizers: PSP Neon HR, Fabfilter Pro-Q, Flux ePure, DMG Audio eQuality, Sonalksis SV-517MkII, DDMF IIEQ Pro. Also see this thread: www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/378658-ultimate-plugin-census.html

 

[PianistOne111]

I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?

Try Console, LiveProfessor, Xlutop for chaining effects.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?

You must calibrate it for your own HRTF as all the default settings are basically quite coloured without doing so. Turn the cue strength down to zero as your own pinna is the best HRTF indicator for ear size and tweak with the head size function. Use speakers and bypass it and turn it back on until you hear no difference (I do mean NO difference). Room acoustics you can play with.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

I bought Isone Pro and I'm really enjoying it. Right now I have it in a chain of two with Isone in front and Electri-Q in back using EffectChainer. Does anyone know of possibly better (faster/less glitchy) VST chainers?

I have been using Xlutop Chainer for years now and it's great. I even run it inside of J River Media Center, and I have preset chains of different configurations I've made that I can load up for different headphones and speakers sets. I could even have different effects chains setup on different audio channels, and then simply use the channel mute/solo buttons on Chainer to quickly switch between each effects chain as I test the different audio gear I have against each other.

 

[anwaypasible]

i think anybody that wants to pretend they are listening to music in a room of such and such size is 'playing'
i can understand that audio mastering might want to take into consideration what the music is going to sound like in the average household room .. and for such purposes i think the audio technician is going out of his/her way and shouldnt care about those who havent properly setup their equipment.
 
as for the rest of you.. why bother without pretending you are listening to your bookshelf speakers when you have your headphones on if you can rid yourself of all the room mode problems by wearing the headphones??!

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

i think anybody that wants to pretend they are listening to music in a room of such and such size is 'playing'
i can understand that audio mastering might want to take into consideration what the music is going to sound like in the average household room .. and for such purposes i think the audio technician is going out of his/her way and shouldnt care about those who havent properly setup their equipment.
 
as for the rest of you.. why bother without pretending you are listening to your bookshelf speakers when you have your headphones on if you can rid yourself of all the room mode problems by wearing the headphones??!

The mixing and mastering engineers work in very specialized environment--studios that were designed mathematically to minimize room modes and sound as neutral as possible. The problem is that nobody else has that kind of a room except for these audio engineers. Even those who try to build decent sounding home studios can't achieve anywhere near that kind of pristine listening environment because it is extremely expensive. The most we can do is to do acoustic treatment with absorbers, diffusers, and whatever else we can afford to buy or build ourselves. The really serious ones might tear down their garage or basement and completely reconstruct it according to an ideal plan for a studio space, but how many people have that kind of freedom to do that in their homes?
 
The beauty of Isone Pro is that is simulates the pristine environment that audio engineers work in. There are no problematic room modes to deal with, since the virtual environment created by Isone Pro is the ideal room. And since audio is not really mastered for headphones but for speakers (otherwise, we wouldn't be getting the severe stereo-separation effect when using headphones), by turning your headphones into speakers in an ideal virtual room, you are basically hearing something that is much closer to what the audio engineers intended you to hear, as well as much closer to what they actually were hearing in their special studios (provided that your headphones are very good in neutrality, accuracy, and frequency extension).

 

[anwaypasible]

nonsense about the 'ideal room'
as a producer.. you make it sound good for the room you are in if playing live, and then you make it without any effects for any rooms thereafter.
nothing but the soundwave.. no reverb added for a room mode, no reverb added for the resonant frequencies of the average ear canal.
the results are clean and ready to be put through a processor to remove 'modes' by your ear canal and/or room.. no sense in doing it twice or living with someone elses optimizations.
 
now if isone pro was to remove those optimizations that are intended for someone elses perfection.. i would be here flagging a cute product.
i tried it and noticed nothing but a stereo seperation.. which is fantastic for people that dont like the music inside their brain, i'm all for that.. but re-creating a room of any type is a step away from perfection.
i think you are giving into far more blessings than those studios are capable of.
 
the ear canal resonance needs to be addressed specifically for each individual prior to anything else.
i see a future of people getting their ears scanned for such customization.
 
and i just thought that thinking about people who recreate room modes (even studio ones) are taking a step backwards and something worth giggling about.
 
how exactly the isone pro is simulating a ('the') pristine environment is unknown to me (obviously it is math) but i didnt hear any differences special to me that would make me want to purchase the product, so i posted with some concern.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

the ear canal resonance needs to be addressed specifically for each individual prior to anything else. i see a future of people getting their ears scanned for such customization.
 
and i just thought that thinking about people who recreate room modes (even studio ones) are taking a step backwards and something worth giggling about.

I don't think you understand Isone Pro's features. Did you even read the manual? The HRTF settings are what you use to customize for your own head and ears--that's what it is for. As for ear canal resonances, nobody can address that because that is like saying TV and computer monitor makers need to address your individual eye sight while they make their products--it's totally off base because there are far too many variants in the population--each person is different. No one can address that. If you're going to talk about address each individual person's ear canal resonances, you might as well just get a comprehensive hearing test and then also address your individual hearing capabilities across the frequency range too.
 
Also, I don't think you understand what room modes are. You should read up on professional audio, studio design/construction, and room acoustics. You completely misunderstood what Isone Pro does when it creates a room simulation.
 

 

[anwaypasible]

of course i misunderstood.. you didnt say much of anything to compliment the functionality.
i've had my hearing professionally tested and been given comprehensive results (although that was more than 20 years ago)
 
for christ sakes, the technicians that tested our ears in school were capable of giving comprehensive results.
not everybody has vision differences, and those that do eventually realize they are unique and get classified as having a problem.
 
i did say 'custom' work and not something generalized without consumer reference.
this disgruntled conversation is rather dull considering there arent much results for the consumer population to benefit off of.
but those hearing tests in the schools do a fine job of gathering information to narrow down the obscure generalizations that you are portraying.
 
as i said, that program did little for me other than seperating the sound from within my brain to the outside, not worth the other fancy functions you are growing upset about.
knowing what is ideal, i fear not about your flags of misunderstanding, especially having had the program on my computer.
 
using the 'room simulation' as your words of choice is only asking for more trouble/laughter.
 
i'm once again filled with laughter considering i wasnt aware that i made such an arguement with strong points that you needed to reply to.
 
i know what i need to read, and studio construction isnt one of them. phase manipulation hidden in the DSP's is where the quality is at .
eliminating the soundwaves without room treatments is possible, just not widespread or available.
they are just recently releasing the latex that has a micron small enough to capture bass / midrange / treble (and its been available for some time without general public access)
 
an interesting point of interest would once again be monaural vs binaural because it is a binaural recording that allows the sense of space and location compared to a single microphone in a dead sound booth.
its no wonder all the music sound dull and lifeless considering the monaural recordings that are perfect for getting the sound calibrated before the hifi binaural albums come out.
 
but basically speaking, if you are thinking that you are listening to a binaural album anytime from the 1980's through 2010 - you are listening to a 'room simulation' rather than a real studio with a binaural mic setup.
 
passing along serious info, i still havent caught a glimpse of what you are talking about