Is Head-Fi Witnessing The Rise Of Two New Kings
Aug 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM Post #406 of 425


Quote:
I'd classify the midrange of the rev 1 as sour creaminess and that of the rev 2 as whipped creaminess
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LOL!  Some people's tastes do vary, don't they!
 
Aug 14, 2011 at 1:05 PM Post #407 of 425
I just got my r2s, haven't had a chance to listen to them yet though.
 
Aug 14, 2011 at 4:03 PM Post #408 of 425
 
Quote:
I've had 2 pairs of r.1's and now an r.2.  Never heard anything remotely close to a sizzle with them.   You think sizzle is the correct term?  

 
Short Answer:
 
Yes, that is the correct term. I'm sorry can't write that like guy from 6 moons. And I think that term is fairly benign when you consider that I've written things like "nasty 6k peak" or "problem region" when referring to my current favorite headphone.
 
Long Answer:
 
I admit that I tend to overemphasize certain qualities when describing stuff, but you have to know where I'm coming from; after all, the topic of this thread refers to "Kings."
 
The state of dynamic headphones (including orthos which are still dynamics) is truly sad, mainly for one reason: driver resonances and ringing. Most people don't hear ringing, nor care about it, or have come to accept it. I do, I care about it, I've trained myself (building speakers) to hear it, even if it's buried 20-30db down. Unfortunately I'm forced to accept it.
 
The kinds of resonances that you hear in headphones would be completely unacceptable in hi-fi dynamic speakers (with the exception of the single driver oddities.) Every driver depending upon it's size, shape, material, and related rigidity is going to ring. It's just matter of at what frequencies. With speakers, the problem is solved with multiple drivers and crossovers where each driver runs in it's most optimal region. Geez, IEMs even do that now!
 
So why the heck are we still dealing with only this one driver crap? I'm mean, these headphone cup sizes are getting monstrous with enough room to fit multiple drivers. Maybe even a 2-way coaxial design can be shoved into a small size? Basically, I'm just getting tired of all us being happily spoon-fed by the manufacturers:
 
  • Trained Sennheiser rep: "it's [HD800] a neutral phone." ...  "Your bass is limp and bite my shiny metal ass." Do these Sennheiser guys just listen to classical and David Hasselhoff?
  • Audeze's solution of shelving down the entire band from 1kHz so the peak at 10kHz is only 10db down ... "Very clever, nice try, where's the beef [high midrange]?"
  • Beyer's "record breaking magnetic flux" ... "Wow an improved DT880 with a darker tilt! Wait, what's that tizz tizz tizz that's even worse than the DT880?"
  • Denon's mobile sub-woofers ... "Hmmm. Very ingenious how that narrow bright treble band meshes well with each rumble on the beat."
 
Nothing against any of the above manufacturers. I am deeply appreciative of their efforts. But if we just sit around and keep convincing ourselves that what we happen to own are the best most perfect headphones in the world without any serious in-depth assessment, then the manufacturers are never going to have a reason to push themselves into more creative or advanced designs, and just re-hash similar "improved" models with the same inherent problems.
 
I'd like to hear some real "Kings."
 
 
 
Aug 14, 2011 at 4:08 PM Post #409 of 425


Quote:
Short Answer:
 
Yes, that is the correct term. I'm sorry can't write that like guy from 6 moons. And I think that term is fairly benign when you consider that I've written things like "nasty 6k peak" or "problem region" when referring to my current favorite headphone.
 
Long Answer:
 
I admit that I tend to overemphasize certain qualities when describing stuff, but you have to know where I'm coming from; after all, the topic of this thread refers to "Kings."
 
The state of dynamic headphones (including orthos which are still dynamics) is truly sad, mainly for one reason: driver resonances and ringing. Most people don't hear ringing, nor care about it, or have come to accept it. I do, I care about it, I've trained myself (building speakers) to hear it, even if it's buried 20-30db down. Unfortunately I'm forced to accept it.
 
The kinds of resonances that you hear in headphones would be completely unacceptable in hi-fi dynamic speakers (with the exception of the single driver oddities.) Every driver depending upon it's size, shape, material, and related rigidity is going to ring. It's just matter of at what frequencies. With speakers, the problem is solved with multiple drivers and crossovers where each driver runs in it's most optimal region. Geez, IEMs even do that now!
 
So why the heck are we still dealing with only this one driver crap? I'm mean, these headphone cup sizes are getting monstrous with enough room to fit multiple drivers. Maybe even a 2-way coaxial design can be shoved into a small size? Basically, I'm just getting tired of all us being happily spoon-fed by the manufacturers:
 
  • Trained Sennheiser rep: "it's [HD800] a neutral phone." ...  "Your bass is limp and bite my shiny metal ass." Do these Sennheiser guys just listen to classical and David Hasselhoff?
  • Audeze's solution of shelving down the entire band from 1kHz so the peak at 10kHz is only 10db down ... "Very clever, nice try, where's the beef [high midrange]?"
  • Beyer's "record breaking magnetic flux" ... "Wow an improved DT880 with a darker tilt! Wait, what's that tizz tizz tizz that's even worse than the DT880?"
  • Denon's mobile sub-woofers ... "Hmmm. Very ingenious how that narrow bright treble band meshes well with the sub-woofer effect."
 
Nothing against any of the above manufacturers. I am deeply appreciative of their efforts. But if we just sit around and keep convincing ourselves that what we happen to own are the best most perfect headphones in the world without any issues, then the manufacturers are never going to have a reason to push themselves into more creative or advanced designs, and just re-hash similar "improved" models with the same inherent problems.
 
I'd like to hear some real "Kings."

I appreciate your desire for something better, but multiple drivers is most certainly not the way to go for a headphone.  
 
 
 
Aug 14, 2011 at 4:12 PM Post #410 of 425
 
Quote:
I appreciate your desire for something better, but multiple drivers is most certainly not the way to go for a headphone.  


No doubt there will be some serious issues to overcome (crossover, varying amp output impedance, phase alignment, etc.) Who knows? Have you tried it? Honestly I think a coaxial design could work. The minute you say no is the minute when all progress stops.
 
But it's not just multiple drivers, what about better materials? Different transducer technology that people haven't invented yet?
 
That's what engineers are for right?
 
Aug 14, 2011 at 4:24 PM Post #411 of 425


Quote:
No doubt there will be some other serious issues to overcome (crossover, varying amp output impedance, phase alignment, etc.) Who knows? Have you tried it? Honestly I think a coaxial design could work. The minute you say no is the minute when all progress stops.
 
But it's not just multiple drivers, what about better materials? Different transducer technology that people haven't invented yet?
 
That's what engineers are for right?

Yes, it's been tried for years.  It's nothing but a gimmick for headphones.  One driver is the holy grail for headphones/earphones.  Better materials?  Yes there's always room for improvement, different technologies?  sure!  Yes.  Necessity IS the mother of invention.
 
 
 
Aug 15, 2011 at 12:11 AM Post #412 of 425
In my novice opinion, I think one of the biggest problem for headphones is managing how the acoustics interact w/ the driver.  It seems like a very physically restrictive environment to work with.  From how the pads seal, driver position, placement and distance, acoustic interactions, etc.  Really seems more like a nightmare scenario than dealing w/ IEMs or full size floor standers.  Sure a whole room could be expensive to treat for acoustics but it's relatively straightforward and manageable.  Or I could just be talking out my ass.  
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  I think the earspeaker concept can negate a few issues.  
 
Aug 15, 2011 at 2:08 AM Post #414 of 425


Quote:
Quote:

Or helmet mounted nearfield desktop monitors with a portable subwoofer butt-cushion.


They say you can't hear much down in that region anyway.  
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  Though I bet some do.  
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Aug 15, 2011 at 2:16 AM Post #415 of 425
Aug 15, 2011 at 3:16 AM Post #417 of 425


Quote:
Latest LCD-2 rev2 impressions!



I wish they were Dulce de Leche to my ears.  My favorite btw.  
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  That plate is not worthy, just sayin'.  
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Aug 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM Post #419 of 425


Quote:
 
I actually haven't seen that one. That can't be real?

 
Oh it's more real than the subwoofer you are sitting on atm.  
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