[wsilvio]

I think it's important to remember that everyone's ears are different. Everyone's ear cavities attenuate and boost different frequencies. If this were not true, everyone would like the same phones. For example, I recently went to see my audiologist. He has a device that measures your ear cavity and how your ear affects the incoming sound. I found out that at 4K, my ear boost that frequency by 19db!

The point is, it is impossible for everyone to like the same phones and equipment. I just ordered a pair of HD800's. Who knows, I could hate them. If so, cool. I'll just find another can to try. Isn't that part of the fun of this crazy hobby anyway!

 

[oqvist]

How much does it cost to go to such an ear specialist could be fun

.

 

[wsilvio]

I have a friend who is an audiologist. he specializes in working with musicians. I went in for a hearing test. I asked him if it was possible to tell exactly how loud I listen to my IEM's. He used a machine that I believe Audiologist use when they make hearing aids. The machine sends specific sound samples to your ears and a tiny mic places inside your ear measures the response. Very cool really. After making those calculations, I kept the tiny mike in my ear and put in my iems. I then played music and the computer measured the spl. Afterwards, he used a computer program to figure how my ear cavity affects the spl that I listen to. I found out that I am happy listening in the 70-75db range and based on that I could listen non stop and never damage my hearing!

 

[SmellyGas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsilvio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's important to remember that everyone's ears are different. Everyone's ear cavities attenuate and boost different frequencies. If this were not true, everyone would like the same phones. For example, I recently went to see my audiologist. He has a device that measures your ear cavity and how your ear affects the incoming sound. I found out that at 4K, my ear boost that frequency by 19db!

This is true, and is likely the reason why I find the HD800's far too bright, whereas most people don't. Our idea of "neutral" is defined by what our eardrums normally hear in ordinary life. What our eardrums hear is modified by the ear canal (which has its own frequency response and resonant frequencies determined by the changing canal diameter). What our ear canal hears is determined by the modification of the sound by outer ear (pinna), which is, in turn, a function of all the direct and reflected sound striking oour pinna at different angles. Everybody has a different ear canal and pinna shape. Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to design an earphone (which can be approximated as a single large radiating source) that can account for all the anatomic variation that people have. The only way to ensure that people hear the same thing is to have a transducer that is right next to the eardrum, way inside the canal. There are at least 2 good articles on this in JAES.

But nobody cares about this. Anybody who owns an HD800 and/or has ingested all of the HD800 praise (including stereophile's) thinks that anyone who can't hear the audio superiority of the HD800 must either have hearing problems or their equipment is crap. It's true. Just read the responses to this thread. In reality, variations in perception of headphone quality are largely caused by the above explanation. Manufacturers try to satisfy most people by shaping a frequency response that works for MOST people. Invariably you'll have people with ear canal/pinna anatomies that don't match up with the designer's intentions.

Quote:

The point is, it is impossible for everyone to like the same phones and equipment. I just ordered a pair of HD800's. Who knows, I could hate them. If so, cool. I'll just find another can to try. Isn't that part of the fun of this crazy hobby anyway!

I sincerely hope you like them. I wanted to like mine.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif pp312 you are in the majority I do believe... At least from the music listeners that spend more money on music then gears. I am not there yet For music listening it would be perfect for a headphone to remove all errors in the recordings... But whenever you stray away from neutrality you are sacrificing something else in the process so it´s a fine balancing act. The HD 650 fails for me but the German Maestros balance that line beautifully I must say. That´s why I love them. I listen to music in two ways active diving deep into the recordings and just relaxing. Pro 900 encourages the first and it´s impossible to not just relax with the german maestros lol. They never upset me about sounding harsh or sibilant not even on poor recordings. And get all the warmth I may miss at times. As most headphones without bass boost they can sound a bit thin Amazing combination I have to say quite a homerun . But for me if I am going to shell out something like 1400$ for a headphone that is supposed to be garbage if you don´t shell out another 1000$ on amps and 500$ on going balanced I would not want it to be my secondary fun headphone. It has to sound god damn real and high fidelity. Same reason I didn´t feel like paying 1500$ to try to get the HD 650 to magically transform and being musical That´s why I sold my DX 1000 too. To expensive to have as a secondary headphone though it´s bloody brilliant for some types of music. I listen to pretty much everything so I tend to preferr allrounders.

removing 'errors' in the music is bad.. A good headphone is doing it's job when it reveals every nook & cranny in a recording. That's what you want.. The true essence of the recording.. It would be like applying DNR to old movies remade in BR to remove the 'flaws' of the film.. Make the film 'look better.' In the end, I don't want my headphones protecting or lying to me..

 

[cswann1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif But nobody cares about this. Anybody who owns an HD800 and/or has ingested all of the HD800 praise (including stereophile's) thinks that anyone who can't hear the audio superiority of the HD800 must either have hearing problems or their equipment is crap.

The thing is that many Head-Fiers have an emotional attachment to their preferred gear. This sometimes causes insecurity when someone comes along who doesn't feel the same way. In these cases you get what we've seen in this thread for the past 48 hours or so.

It works in reverse too. Last Spring you couldn't have a discussion about the K701 (another phone deemed neutral by many) without every hater in the community chiming in with reasons why people should not like the K701.


A phychology major could get his Doctorate degree using the behaviors seen on this forum as a case study in irrational emotional attachment to material possessions.

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is true, and is likely the reason why I find the HD800's far too bright, whereas most people don't. Our idea of "neutral" is defined by what our eardrums normally hear in ordinary life. What our eardrums hear is modified by the ear canal (which has its own frequency response and resonant frequencies determined by the changing canal diameter). What our ear canal hears is determined by the modification of the sound by outer ear (pinna), which is, in turn, a function of all the direct and reflected sound striking oour pinna at different angles. Everybody has a different ear canal and pinna shape. Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to design an earphone (which can be approximated as a single large radiating source) that can account for all the anatomic variation that people have. The only way to ensure that people hear the same thing is to have a transducer that is right next to the eardrum, way inside the canal. There are at least 2 good articles on this in JAES. But nobody cares about this. Anybody who owns an HD800 and/or has ingested all of the HD800 praise (including stereophile's) thinks that anyone who can't hear the audio superiority of the HD800 must either have hearing problems or their equipment is crap. It's true. Just read the responses to this thread. In reality, variations in perception of headphone quality are largely caused by the above explanation. Manufacturers try to satisfy most people by shaping a frequency response that works for MOST people. Invariably you'll have people with ear canal/pinna anatomies that don't match up with the designer's intentions.

Then why have you been claiming over and over that the HD800 has boosted, exaggerated treble and sibilance as it was an universal fact?

 

[john53]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif removing 'errors' in the music is bad.. A good headphone is doing it's job when it reveals every nook & cranny in a recording. That's what you want.. The true essence of the recording.. It would be like applying DNR to old movies remade in BR to remove the 'flaws' of the film.. Make the film 'look better.' In the end, I don't want my headphones protecting or lying to me..

I have a slight different opinion here...
I agree that removing errors is not good,but i think that if a headphone has slightly smoother treble,so it smoothens out harsh treble a little,then this is good.
I don't mean that it should make all the harsh and bad recordings sound smooth and pleasant,but if the treble is a bit smooth while maintaining good clarity/transparensy,it's good because there are so many recordings with slight hot highs and i don't want to damage my hearing or get tired listening to music too quickly...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's because I've been busy responding to the fanboy hate-posts! I think the HD650 sounds pretty good. I also liked the HD580's. I prefer sound that has a natural tonal balance. Detail is important, but not if it comes from an exaggerated treble. Bass extension is important, but it should also have impact and an appropriate level relative to the midrange/highs. I'm less concerned about soundstage, since I don't think cans will ever surpass good loudspeakers in a living room anyway.

No hate post.. Sorry.. You are blowing things way out of proportion, & turning criticizing post, or differing view points as 'attacking', 'hating', & fanboyism..

 

[SmellyGas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then why have you been claiming over and over that the HD800 has boosted, exaggerated treble and sibilance as it was an universal fact?

Universal fact, not at all. But the problem with exaggerated treble has been the most common complaint by others. In fact, there is an entire thread dedicated to the sibilance in the HD800. This tells me that a certain non-trivial portion of the population might find these headphones overly bright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cswann1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif A phychology major could get his Doctorate degree using the behaviors seen on this forum as a case study in irrational emotional attachment to material possessions.

doctorate degree? try a postdoc and a research grant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif No hate post.. Sorry.. You are blowing things way out of proportion, & turning criticizing post, or differing view points as 'attacking', 'hating', & fanboyism..

There level of HD800 fanboyism here is self-evident. I don't think agree with any of the other stuff.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cswann1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing is that many Head-Fiers have an emotional attachment to their preferred gear. This sometimes causes insecurity when someone comes along who doesn't feel the same way.

Keep in mind that some members have spent years of time and many dollars to sample a wide variety of equipment.

It isn't like you join, are assigned a pair of headphones, and those are the ones you're stuck with. If that were the case, getting attached to what you're assigned would be irrational.

Are you saying that there should be no emotional investment in your choices? That you should just buy randomly, so as not to have any investment in what you choose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif There level of HD800 fanboyism here is self-evident.

You forgot to mention the HD-800 trolls.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif You forgot to mention the HD-800 trolls.

lol, you probably meant to the K-701 trolls...

 

[eugenius]

This is the first thread that makes me want the HD800's.

I want those shrill, grating german no-wood no style headphones. At a reasonable used price.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol, you probably meant to the K-701 trolls...

I've never started a thread specifically to bash the K-701 or gone out of my way to provoke those who like it. When I disagree with someone about the K-701, I don't drag it out over a 100+ post thread just to irritate them.

 

[soundlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although the HD800 isn't my cup of tea either, I find the HD800 to sound much more natural than the HD650 IMO.

X2 for sure. I own the HD 650's and cannot listen to them with the stock cable. It is like a blanket is thrown over them. Gary and I shared this at the last L.A. Mini-meet