[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sad to say that I too started the journey down the vinyl path exactly one year ago. I recently purchased a DacMagic and have found new faith in digital. Yes, the vinyl albums have excellent tonality, and many times the ring of bass strings just sounds "right." But when it comes to orchestral music, my MM cartridge just doesn't have the speed to separate thick, complicated passages. I do enjoy it with a lot of classic rock pressings and jazz, however. But for orchestral music, digital has the upper hand for sure.

I've never had the issues you mention even on my first TT - music hall MMF7 with Goldring cartridge.

Just wondering why you think digital in general has the upper hand with symphonic music because your particular MM cartridge struggles with complex passages? That would be the equivalent of me saying that my MP3s sounds edgy and lacks detail, so digital is harsh and doesn't do detail well.

I would seriously look at the set up too. You might need to get some more weight on the stylus. You definately want to shoot for MC cartridges eventually. They are the real deal as MM are limited IMHO

 

[Uncle Erik]

jsplice, try a MC cartridge. You might find that more to your liking, though I agree that digital can do orchestral very well. I love large classical pieces on SACD. Only thing is that a SACD will cost me $15-$20 and a used classical LP will run me a quarter or fifty cents at the thrift store. I will have to scrub the record, but it's the least expensive path to great sound.

For the vinyl non-believers, try listening to a well set up rig with clean vinyl. You can get excellent sound and pay very little for LPs. I might set up another music server, but the turntable is here to stay.

 

[Publius]

CDs trash vinyl hands down for high dynamic range orchestral stuff. And yes, I have an MC cartridge, and cleaned records.

However, vinyl has the advantage of being ludicrously cheap, and the added noise and compressed sound is generally not a huge issue for virtually all music. I wouldn't buy vinyl for (say) most Ligeti, but it's fine for the lighter stuff like Beethoven. I can only barely tolerate Mahler on vinyl.

Once you get into 440ML territory you should not be having distortion problems that cause major confusion in the sound. However, quite a few recordings just were not recorded all that well, and can have their own congested sound.

 

[brandnewgame]

Even if the sound quality is better, I can't justify anything other than a hard disk with a terabyte of flacs. Glad you're enjoying it

 

[aamefford]

Meh, I left vinyl behind somewhere near 1982 or so, and I've never had a desire to go back. Snap, Crackle and Pop are for Rice Crispies! I will admit that the old album covers were fun to read and great for de-seeding ahhh, never mind...

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, the vinyl albums have excellent tonality, and many times the ring of bass strings just sounds "right." But when it comes to orchestral music, my MM cartridge just doesn't have the speed to separate thick, complicated passages. I do enjoy it with a lot of classic rock pressings and jazz, however. But for orchestral music, digital has the upper hand for sure.

There is no reason why the Goldring shouldn't capable of this, it's a fine cart. I'd look elsewhere in the chain. What is the deck sitting on etc?

I think you hit the nail on the head with tonality though. CD can do loud and soft very convincingly and you need a more resolving turntable maybe to match it's basics on larger scale orchestral works, but in terms of realistic soundstage and instumental timbre it takes a very expensive CD player to equal a basic turntable.

Another factor which amplifies these differences is that most modern digital recordings use at the very least 16 mics for anything orchestral and these then need to be mixed, whereas most of the classical recordings everybody wants on vinyl from the '50s and '60s use just 2 or 3 mics directly feeding a tape recorder. Immediately this creates, many would say, an artificial sense of superior instrumental separation from modern digital recordings, at the expense of a realistic soundstage.

 

[ruknd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamefford /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meh, I left vinyl behind somewhere near 1982 or so, and I've never had a desire to go back. Snap, Crackle and Pop are for Rice Crispies! I will admit that the old album covers were fun to read and great for de-seeding ahhh, never mind...

I have to disagree...a frisbee is better. But seriously, I recently went back to vinyl with a Rega P5/TT-PSU/Elys2 combo and to get anywhere near the SQ I'd need to spend upwards of $10k on a CD player.

 

[glitch39]

Quote:

Vinyl is the future!

That is so LOL

 

[glitch39]

here is a thought : with no compression on vinyl, can you rip from vinyl to FLAC or Apple Lossless and end up with better files than when you rip from CD?

hmmmm.... that would be interesting.

 

[glitch39]

It even has SPDIF out!

 

[nkoulban]

I'm just getting back into vinyl, mostly 'cause I have a lot of records stored away, some that have not made it to CD. I find my vinyl setup great to listen to and you do get used to the occasional pop and crackle. I certainly enjoy my DAC and Macbook as a source too, the both analogue and digital have their good and bad points, so I see these as complementary.

Right now though I have been doing a lot of listening to vinyl and found that I can minimise surface noise by using an anti-static gun and using a commercial record cleaner. I have also made sure that my cart is aligned perfectly, the VTF, VTA is spot on... its amazing what these things contribute to the sound.

Enjoy your vinyl experience... now lets have a listen to that dusty DAC again.

 

[analogsonar]

alot of it depends on the hugeness of the phono stage. phono stage and cartridge make the big difference along with everything else such as component synergy. I didnt know what it was about until I got a receiver that happened to have a good 'stage. 24/192 with a big power supply and good transport laser can come close but you have to have the rest of the system perfectly high end.

 

[hyperreal]

I think you'll really get into the ritualistic vibe of preparing the record for playing and sitting down to listen to the record play. In this day and age when we can appease our ADD-ness with a quick push of a button or scroll of a wheel on our digital devices we lose sight of the fact that we are listening to albums (or at least songs that were meant to be part of an album).

For now, don't worry too much about upgrading parts of the table or the table itself. In hindsight, I think my two most important analog upgrades/purchases were a better cartridge and a record cleaning machine. Record cleaning machines aren't cheap. I decided not to buy one and instead made one. I didn't follow it to a "t", but here is the recipe I followed: DIY Record Cleaner
It's pretty easy to make the "modified crevice tool" and from there you just need an old turntable and a way of clamping the records to the platter. There is a lot of information in those little grooves and you have to give your stylus a fighting chance to read it. From there, any upgrades you make to your front-end will be much easier to hear.

 

[jsplice]

Oh I most definitely have no plans to get rid of my analog rig. I love the sound. And I agree, clean records is key to a good clean sound. However, the part that is frustrating about buy used records is you never know if a record has needle damage until you get it home and listen. I've bought countless used records, cleaned the heck out of them, but they still sound distorted during loud passages because the grooves are just damaged. This part alone makes buying used records a gamble; sure they may be cheap, but if you add up all those gambles that I've lost, it adds up.

For cleaning records, I use a thing called a Spin-Clean. I'm sure it's not as effective as the good vacuum units, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to pay $550 (VPI 16.5) for a turntable with a vacuum tube on it. That's how much I paid for my MMF-5.1, which is a much more complex and precise device than a record cleaning machine.

 

[hyperreal]

I posted then realized that there were two more pages of discussion, so that was more addressed to the original poster.

jsplice: I have had a similar issue with distortion during loud passages, even on scrupulously cleaned records. My guess was that it was my phono stage being overloaded. Anyone who might know a bit more about this, correct me if I'm wrong.