[801evan]

Seemingly, another advice suggests that 5V may be the issue, and had I of bought a 15V or whatever, it would of been fine as the unit draws only the power it needs.

The advice is not to go over 5v. Which is different from current needs. You may want to read up on the basics of watts, voltage, current to understand the relationships and the advice people are giving.

Meanwhile, try a 4.4 cable since Diablo is a true balanced design anyways.

 

[OCC7N]

To avoid derailing the DCA Expanse thread, I wanted to ask my question here. I have a Diablo and 5V Elite. When I use the Expanse, it clips terribly as per video:



Diablo is running via 6.35mm to DCAs, on Turbo gain with volume approx 2PM.

I was advised that I should only purchase the 5V version of the Elite for the Diablo, to buy anything greater risks damaging the unit. Seemingly, another advice suggests that 5V may be the issue, and had I of bought a 15V or whatever, it would of been fine as the unit draws only the power it needs.

So is my issue simply because the Diablo is not suitable source for the Expanse, or that the Elite I have is not able to provide the voltage needed?

Never EVER do anything else than the recommended Voltage from the brands so:

iFi ONLY recommends 5V for diablo. A does not matter if you have atleast 2.5A...even if you have 10A.

but lets take RME DAC FS. they recommend something between 9-15V. But they include 12V, and that is the sweetspot, or else it can get too hot if you run 15V

 

[marcus2704]

The advice is not to go over 5v. Which is different from current needs. You may want to read up on the basics of watts, voltage, current to understand the relationships and the advice people are giving.

Meanwhile, try a 4.4 cable since Diablo is a true balanced design anyways.

Fully agree, I am not so much into tech specs as all that matters to me is what I hear with my ears, but in this case it sounds very relative to the issue. I dont have a 4.4 Expanse cable to hand as the dealer did not provide, possibly I can get an XLR from them but I would need to use that with an adaptor. In all honesty, as amazing as they obviously are the Expanse will likely need to go back as I don't want to spend 1000s needed in order to properly pair them in a way that makes them sing. I am instead considering buying a Uniti Atom for use with my Utopias and be done with it.

 

[801evan]

Fully agree, I am not so much into tech specs as all that matters to me is what I hear with my ears, but in this case it sounds very relative to the issue. I dont have a 4.4 Expanse cable to hand as the dealer did not provide, possibly I can get an XLR from them but I would need to use that with an adaptor. In all honesty, as amazing as they obviously are the Expanse will likely need to go back as I don't want to spend 1000s needed in order to properly pair them in a way that makes them sing. I am instead considering buying a Uniti Atom for use with my Utopias and be done with it.

Think a 4.4 cable is cheaper than a uniti atom + utopia (that has a fair amount of distortion) combo.

 

[OCC7N]

I haven't used an iPower Elite, I am tempted but TBH I have my doubts about the significance of any improvement. A chap on another forum tried his iPower Elite and Diablo combo and he indicated he heard no sonic change. He is a big power supply proponent and would have loved to say it sounded better but he heard nothing.

As an aside, for high current demands the standard supplied power brick is woeful. Long story short ..... DCA Aeon, low impedance and low sensitivity require high current, when pushed hard on Diablo it will shut down completely. Needs to be connected to a power supply to reset. This is a current limit protection.

Plug in a power supply and it will override the battery and instead of shutting down it will go into "hiccup protection" literally off/on/off/on/off/on ..... until the load is reduced by turning down the volume or the music becoming less bass intensive. The factory power supply that comes with Diablo is worse than battery power alone. A small iPhone charger, the tiny one, is better. A 25 Watt Samsung fast charger will allow Turbo mode with the Aeon to as high a volume setting as you like and the power supply will keep up.

@marcus2704

 

[marcus2704]

@marcus2704

Thanks, I am using the Elite external PSU and have the cut-out problem with the Expanse via 6.35mm.

 

[OCC7N]

Thanks, I am using the Elite external PSU and have the cut-out problem with the Expanse via 6.35mm.

The interesting part is that @BS5711 experience the full cut out with a DCA headphone also. Maybe he can tell if he also experienced any cut out before

 

[BS5711]

To avoid derailing the DCA Expanse thread, I wanted to ask my question here. I have a Diablo and 5V Elite. When I use the Expanse, it clips terribly as per video:



Diablo is running via 6.35mm to DCAs, on Turbo gain with volume approx 2PM.

I was advised that I should only purchase the 5V version of the Elite for the Diablo, to buy anything greater risks damaging the unit. Seemingly, another advice suggests that 5V may be the issue, and had I of bought a 15V or whatever, it would of been fine as the unit draws only the power it needs.

So is my issue simply because the Diablo is not suitable source for the Expanse, or that the Elite I have is not able to provide the voltage needed?

Hi Marcus,

I skimmed over the other responses above but I figured I would respond to your initial question.

That isn’t clipping, that is “hiccup protection” where neither the battery or the power supply can keep up with the current demands.

Try running it on battery only in the same load situation and I bet the Diablo will shut down entirely. Just plug it in to a power supply to reset it.

My Diablo will do the same thing with DCA Aeon Noire and Mr Speakers Aeon Flow, the low impedance and low sensitivity require a high current output from an amp rather than high voltage that a high impedance headphone does.

DO NOT go above 5 volts. What you need is a higher WATTAGE rated power supply. I have tried the one that ships with the Diablo and it is worse than useless.

The best I tried is a simple Samsung 25 Watt charger and it allows Aeons to be run full volume on Turbo …. no I can’t and don’t listen at that level, that was just testing.

The ifi Elite 5 volt is also 25 Watt so should be equally effective, a much cheaper 25 watt phone charger is a cost effective way to try out a higher output PSU before spending the not inconsiderable amount on the ifi Elite.

Others here say the Elite makes a remarkable difference in sound quality of Diablo, another guy on another forum said it did nothing ……. who knows, I would be very interested in your impressions if you go for the Elite.

Interestingly, Aeon with Diablo wound up will distort, I thought it was the limit of the Aeon until I just bought an Asgard 3. The power of the Asgard is very similar to Diablo on Turbo mode. BUT when cranked up hard there is zero distortion, just uncannily clean but crazy loud of course. The Asgard seems better able to supply the current demands than the Diablo. Makes sense since it’s maximum power is at only 16 Ohm while Diablo is a bit higher, 32 Ohm I believe, of course the Asgard is tethered to the wall socket but so is Diablo if using a PSU.

Hope that helps ….. please report back with your experiences and findings.

EDIT …… just reread and saw you are using Elite already, seems that isn’t up to the task either. I would suggest an even higher WATTAGE rated PSU that can deliver the current, it will only provide what the Amp is asking for. You can get very high wattage phone chargers, like 100 Watt. I guess at some point it might be possible to overpower the entire amp if the headphone are simply harder to drive than it is capable of and you just keep feeding it power to help ….. or the amp is fully capable if given enough power to run on …… proceed with caution !!!

EDIT 2 …… a balanced cable will only make the problem worse as the balanced circuit outputs more power and thus requires more from the power supply. I have 4.4mm and 1/4 inch cables for the Aeons, 4.4mm is worse in regards the problem being discussed.

A Schiit Asgard will drive the Expanse far better than the Diablo at very modest cost, get the ES9028 DAC module and you have a cost effective all in one desktop solution.

 

[Dionietzscheus]

Hi guys
My Diablo unit is "bricked" - the charging LED is not working - the LED is not working AT ALL - and the light does not show flashing red when charge is ongoing and no indication of whether the unit is getting charged or fully charged, because there are no lights, flashing or otherwise; also, the unit is NOT powering on. I left it on charge for about 5 hours, but the situation persists - no LED and unit is not powering on. I tried charging with the iPower charger that comes with and another normal smartphone charger - the unit is not responding at all. It gets warm/ hot when on charging mode but no LED lights at all. The unit is only a month old and purchased new from the authorized retailer in my country. I have used it with care - no rough/ outdoor use. Only indoor usage. Really frustrating.
PS - I have NOT attempted to update from the default firmware the Diablo comes with. So the issue is not related to firmware updation et cetera. It was working normally till a few days ago with the addition of the iPurifier3 in the chain with both units working as expected. Dunno what happened suddenly. Any suggestions??

 

[Currawong]

I would suggest an even higher WATTAGE rated PSU that can deliver the current, it will only provide what the Amp is asking for. You can get very high wattage phone chargers, like 100 Watt. I guess at some point it might be possible to overpower the entire amp if the headphone are simply harder to drive than it is capable of and you just keep feeding it power to help ….. or the amp is fully capable if given enough power to run on …… proceed with caution !!!

The PSU only charges the battery. It cannot provide more power to the amp. I've tried with a 100W PSU and there is zero difference. The problem appears to be that the output of the Diablo is much lower than what iFi states on their web site, so it can clip at high volumes with headphones such as the Expanse and Stealth.

I pulled apart the Diablo and checked the specs of the parts used. We have a 3.7V 4800mAh battery. Typical batteries of this type can discharge up to 3000 mAh, which should be enough, but I wonder if battery wear is the culprit, as I presume that would go down over time.

The writing on the board says that it is a 4000mW amp, and the output mosfets are rated at 20V and 5A, so they seem to be fine. I'm going to speculate that the webmaster was given the wrong specs (or specs based upon what iFi hoped that the device could output) and it was never updated, as a similar thing happened with the Zen Stream.

 

[801evan]

EDIT 2 …… a balanced cable will only make the problem worse as the balanced circuit outputs more power and thus requires more from the power supply. I have 4.4mm and 1/4 inch cables for the Aeons, 4.4mm is worse in regards the problem being discussed.

Balanced 4.4mm is the solution as that output has more current than SE so it can't be worse.

 

[BS5711]

The PSU only charges the battery. It cannot provide more power to the amp. I've tried with a 100W PSU and there is zero difference. The problem appears to be that the output of the Diablo is much lower than what iFi states on their web site, so it can clip at high volumes with headphones such as the Expanse and Stealth.

I pulled apart the Diablo and checked the specs of the parts used. We have a 3.7V 4800mAh battery. Typical batteries of this type can discharge up to 3000 mAh, which should be enough, but I wonder if battery wear is the culprit, as I presume that would go down over time.

The writing on the board says that it is a 4000mW amp, and the output mosfets are rated at 20V and 5A, so they seem to be fine. I'm going to speculate that the webmaster was given the wrong specs (or specs based upon what iFi hoped that the device could output) and it was never updated, as a similar thing happened with the Zen Stream.

Zero difference in what situation ?

I’m not talking about clipping I’m talking about complete shut down on battery or hiccuping on and off with a very distinct pause in the playback on a low power PSU.

I know you know you stuff but have you personally observed the shut down issue and tried a PSU with a low impedance and low sensitivity headphone that causes the problem being discussed ?

I have had two Diablos and they both suffered the shut down problem on Aeon, the first one literally as brand new in the shop when trying it before buying so old batteries were not the problem.

1. With Diablo into Aeon on battery only the when pushed hard on a bass heavy song the Diablo will completely shut down and needs to be connected to a charger to bring it back to life. Same issue single ended or 4.4mm, not on eco but either standard or turbo.

2. With a low powered 5 Watt charger the Diablo won’t shut down but will “hiccup” on and off at relatively moderate volume on the same bass heavy song.

3. With a 12.5 Watt charger and the same song the Diablo will hiccup but at very much higher volume.

4. With a 25 Watt charger the Diablo can literally be run full volume on turbo mode with no hiccup at all. Only as a test of course, that is unlistenably loud.

If the charger is only charging the battery how does the above happen ? That would be impossible right.

When pressed for a response ifi first stated that the use of a PSU can’t change the power output of Diablo in this situation. When I ran through the above they backpedaled and said that a suitable PSU could in fact increase the power output in the situation where the battery could not provide the current that the amplifier draws into the low impedance load as the PSU was providing the amp section not just charging the battery.

In a private message Thorsten who designed the Diablo confirmed that the battery current supply available is the limiting factor into a low impedance load.

Into a higher impedance load my Diablo is absolutely normal and you are correct a PSU does nothing because the battery can keep up with the current requirements of the amp. With HD600 my Diablo can be run full volume on Turbo on battery alone, again as a test, far to loud to listen to.

A few posts back a guy shared a video of the hiccup behaviour with Expanse and a 25 Watt PSU, not clipping but an extremely obvious pause in the music …on, off, on, off ….

I have read several complaints by others of this issue, universally with DCA Aeon or Stealth.

Earlier comments from ifi screenshot below:

 

[BS5711]

Balanced 4.4mm is the solution as that output has more current than SE so it can't be worse.

Yes the amp outputs more power out of 4.4mm but in doing so requires more power of the batteries that already can’t supply enough current for the SE requirements.

Have you actually experienced this issue or are you just assuming when you say “balanced is the solution” ? I can categorically state that it most assuredly is no solution at all.

 

[OCC7N]

Why does DCA not provide any useful spec on the website. I have a hard time finding the real specs of there headphone. Like sensitivity etc.

I mean if a headphone have a hard time play of diablo Im not ever going to buy them. My susvara plays easy on them even normal mode.

I hear problems everywhere with DCA on diablo

 

[Currawong]

Zero difference in what situation ?

I’m not talking about clipping I’m talking about complete shut down on battery or hiccuping on and off with a very distinct pause in the playback on a low power PSU.

I know you know you stuff but have you personally observed the shut down issue and tried a PSU with a low impedance and low sensitivity headphone that causes the problem being discussed ?

I have had two Diablos and they both suffered the shut down problem on Aeon, the first one literally as brand new in the shop when trying it before buying so old batteries were not the problem.

1. With Diablo into Aeon on battery only the when pushed hard on a bass heavy song the Diablo will completely shut down and needs to be connected to a charger to bring it back to life. Same issue single ended or 4.4mm, not on eco but either standard or turbo.

2. With a low powered 5 Watt charger the Diablo won’t shut down but will “hiccup” on and off at relatively moderate volume on the same bass heavy song.

3. With a 12.5 Watt charger and the same song the Diablo will hiccup but at very much higher volume.

4. With a 25 Watt charger the Diablo can literally be run full volume on turbo mode with no hiccup at all. Only as a test of course, that is unlistenably loud.

If the charger is only charging the battery how does the above happen ? That would be impossible right.

When pressed for a response ifi first stated that the use of a PSU can’t change the power output of Diablo in this situation. When I ran through the above they backpedaled and said that a suitable PSU could in fact increase the power output in the situation where the battery could not provide the current that the amplifier draws into the low impedance load as the PSU was providing the amp section not just charging the battery.

In a private message Thorsten who designed the Diablo confirmed that the battery current supply available is the limiting factor into a low impedance load.

Into a higher impedance load my Diablo is absolutely normal and you are correct a PSU does nothing because the battery can keep up with the current requirements of the amp. With HD600 my Diablo can be run full volume on Turbo on battery alone, again as a test, far to loud to listen to.

A few posts back a guy shared a video of the hiccup behaviour with Expanse and a 25 Watt PSU, not clipping but an extremely obvious pause in the music …on, off, on, off ….

I have read several complaints by others of this issue, universally with DCA Aeon or Stealth.

Earlier comments from ifi screenshot below:

I tried just now and got it to shut down at full volume at the medium gain setting as you described.

I was in the middle of editing the post. I was continuing the discussion of an issue from the Expanse thread where the amp is clipping way below the stated power output. It might be related to the shutdown issue.

Sorry for the confusion.