[OCC7N]

OK.

Keep in mind I don´t have alot of burnin hours on this Elite. under 60hours.

 

[BS5711]

Keep in mind I don´t have alot of burnin hours on this Elite. under 60hours.

Like I said, I am naturally sceptical and I don’t hear changes with headphone cables, power supplies, USB cables, burn in etc ….. maybe I don’t know what to listen for, my gear isn’t good enough or my hearing isn’t good.

Regardless, it makes enjoying music a lot cheaper and less complicated !

 

[OCC7N]

Like I said, I am naturally sceptical and I don’t hear changes with headphone cables, power supplies, USB cables, burn in etc ….. maybe I don’t know what to listen for, my gear isn’t good enough or my hearing isn’t good.

Regardless, it makes enjoying music a lot cheaper and less complicated !

Sometimes I buy stuff just to be sure that I have it. But in the start it is very hard to hear the difference on new sounds/music/elements.

I am no expert myself, but I have been playing instruments before and used countless of hours on a single elements with EQ and Compressors in studios.... I am also sceptical, I never in my life thought I would hear the difference between headphone cables. I find Forza Audioworks more relaxed/spacious than stock AryaV2. I have not compared the Forza with stock Susvara, I am awaiting custom cable from Forza.

What I do A/B test or just listening.

1. Listen to the snare. How open/tight/dark/deep is it?
2. Then the kickdrum, this is usually the hard to differentiate, the placement, you will either like it or not. When it blends with the snare and your hear the placement/panning of hihats, the rest becomes easy dive into...
3. How is the texture of the bass
4. and then the vocals, can you hear the throat, the nose?
5. How fast does the dac respond to fast elements/phrases.

Its important not to focus on all the elements at the same time. It takes time and time this thing, but you will be able hear/see layers of the depth of the production, which will eventually give better sense of the soundstage.

 

[BS5711]

Sometimes I buy stuff just to be sure that I have it. But in the start it is very hard to hear the difference on new sounds/music/elements.

I am no expert myself, but I have been playing instruments before and used countless of hours on a single elements with EQ and Compressors in studios.... I am also sceptical, I never in my life thought I would hear the difference between headphone cables. I find Forza Audioworks more relaxed/spacious than stock AryaV2. I have not compared the Forza with stock Susvara, I am awaiting custom cable from Forza.

What I do A/B test or just listening.

1. Listen to the snare. How open/tight/dark/deep is it?
2. Then the kickdrum, this is usually the hard to differentiate, the placement, you will either like it or not. When it blends with the snare and your hear the placement/panning of hihats, the rest becomes easy dive into...
3. How is the texture of the bass
4. and then the vocals, can you hear the throat, the nose?
5. How fast does the dac respond to fast elements/phrases.

Its important not to focus on all the elements at the same time. It takes time and time this thing, but you will be able hear/see layers of the depth of the production, which will eventually give better sense of the soundstage.

Thanks for the tips. That is the sort of thing I intuitively listen for, the subtle details and how clean or otherwise are they, good to hear I am more or less on the right track.

I have recently become a fan of Forza Audioworks cables also, simply because they are so nice to use. TBH I have not done A/B testing of them compared to stock, I just like having them. My third one is on the way and I have just placed an order for a matching short 4.4mm to 4.4mm to use line in to the Diablo instead of the big bulky ifi one.

I rather like the GUCraftsman cables, more delicate and thinner than the Forza but I like them also and have three headphone cables and a 4.4mm interconnect but that won't work with Diablo as it is only 4 pole not 5, works fine with Gryphon.

 

[Bob Parish]

That being said, @Bob Parish, you have made me aware (for awhile now) of the benefits of well done DSD 512 rate as a source.

 

[CH23]

Oddly the line in for the Diablo absolutely requires that all 5 poles of the Pentaconn are used so the units are grounded.

I'm having good results with a unbalanced cable that has L- and R- floating, and R+/L+/G connected to their respective pin

 

[BS5711]

I'm having good results with a unbalanced cable that has L- and R- floating, and R+/L+/G connected to their respective pin

CH23 - as have I, as a DAC line out and as an amp line in.

In my comment above I was meaning for a balanced line in set up. There the Diablo seems to require that the ground is used.

I have three 4.4mm to 4.4mm cables, two that use four poles and the ifi one that uses all 5 poles. All work with Gryphon just fine but only the 5 pole ifi one works with the Diablo as a line in. Without the grounding there is hum and the bass disappears, others have observed the same thing.

The ifi 4.4mm to 4.4mm cable is so big and clunky I have ordered a Forza Audioworks 4.4mm to 4.4mm cable, matched to my Forza headphone cables ..... why not !!

 

[whitedragem]

Sometimes I buy stuff just to be sure that I have it. But in the start it is very hard to hear the difference on new sounds/music/elements.

I am no expert myself, but I have been playing instruments before and used countless of hours on a single elements with EQ and Compressors in studios.... I am also sceptical, I never in my life thought I would hear the difference between headphone cables. I find Forza Audioworks more relaxed/spacious than stock AryaV2. I have not compared the Forza with stock Susvara, I am awaiting custom cable from Forza.

What I do A/B test or just listening.

1. Listen to the snare. How open/tight/dark/deep is it?
2. Then the kickdrum, this is usually the hard to differentiate, the placement, you will either like it or not. When it blends with the snare and your hear the placement/panning of hihats, the rest becomes easy dive into...
3. How is the texture of the bass
4. and then the vocals, can you hear the throat, the nose?
5. How fast does the dac respond to fast elements/phrases.

Its important not to focus on all the elements at the same time. It takes time and time this thing, but you will be able hear/see layers of the depth of the production, which will eventually give better sense of the soundstage.

also
(OCC7N~) The stereo image has not changed from the balanced view, there are still some “missing” in the upper mids(recessed). Elite adds lowest low but the highest highs(after the recessed upmids) is very interesting, its from here you will notice how deep/bass it sounds.


Brilliant:
I'd say you know 'pretty well' what you are doing, and have a great ear for identifying what is 'going on'; cheers for observations- muchos gratias (eek- no idea how to spell that; all the same "many thanks")

Bob P~ smiles with ye mon amigo..

RE: balanced mode- doubles the slew rate and that is probably the big boon for the 'upgrade/sidegrade'... not sure if slew rate contributes to a better dampening factor, but I wholeheartedly believe that big driver dynamics (meant to write 'dynamic drivers', but dynamics in terms of an observable quality of sound playback too, so will leave it ambiguous) -really flourish in just such an environment.

I find that the Diablo in balanced mode does up the ante a wee bit.. From something like a FiiO M11+ the balanced mode output is nearly essential for 'large driver' headphones (for 'best' sound output quality)..

Otherwise I'm not really that concerned regarding 'balanced' headphone outputs vs Single Ended...
(I'd take a 'within budget' bargain second hand part that is S.E. only over a newer budget pricepoint balanced topology if the S.E. output only amp was from a tier of kit vastly higher... good times for audio bargains, really...)

But if you have a Diablo, AND have cans with an easy cable swap option, a decent cable might be worthwhile... (to experience the doubled "slew rate" 'sound')
When I played with balanced cables, an 'entry level' FiiO cable didn't do much for me.. (the lack of 'cable break in' probably robbed more from the sound than my older 'stock' Ultrasone Ed5 cables gave.. ), but when I switched up to some nicer ALO Pure silver, the improvements in vocals and music fluidity was certainly 'a thing'.
I have a feeling they might be cryogenically treated and therefore not need be 'used within the last two weeks' to have the cable in a 'settled' use state.

Cables of course are the last nuances of sound, and, as correctly discussed and reminding those new to the hobby, are not overt differences that stand out like changing a set of headphones does..

(Rotating cables is for those with a finished setup, and hobby money to invest into something they might care about)
and for all those talking psychoacoustics etc.. (your worldview is just as based in the 'dark ages of (audio) science as the 'rest of us' - ie your subjective reality is just as subjective as my subjective reality),.. the difference on familiar tracks when listening to specific elements can really show overt/OBVIOUS differences.
For me it was the monks voices on "Principles of Lust" (Enigma). They sounded magically higher in the soundstage, and had a real 'etheral'/other worldly quality to them.
VS stock (s.e.) cable and a 'budget balanced cable', it was a massive difference.
for the scientists - probably just an impedance change, yes? (for anyone else who give credit that a company that makes a crust from selling cables and MIGHT have done some testing etc... it could be the notions that silver materials generally remove sibilance etc.. but then that would be observation bias and expectations)

I love the giant blinkers that people choose to wear in order to attempt to dismiss facts (hey, ME TOO!!)
like everything in this world, we can find evidence to support anything we choose to see, AND there is a lot of noise regarding these subjects.

so maybe chose a cable you like the look of, as apparently the placebo of thinking it will do a better job is 9/10ths the battle.

If you have nice flagship headphones, maybe do not strangle their performance with the cheapest balanced cables as they probably would not be equal with those that come in the box.. (and the manufacturer themselves has considered spending more money on 'undisclosed cable tech and build' so as to have their cutting edge headphones to sound 'their best', might, if cables DO contribute/alter sound quality, actually be worthwhile..)

Whilst I'd love some Nordost cables, a vastly more budget friendly pricepoint ALO 'did the trick for me'.

 

[OCC7N]

CH23 - as have I, as a DAC line out and as an amp line in.

In my comment above I was meaning for a balanced line in set up. There the Diablo seems to require that the ground is used.

I have three 4.4mm to 4.4mm cables, two that use four poles and the ifi one that uses all 5 poles. All work with Gryphon just fine but only the 5 pole ifi one works with the Diablo as a line in. Without the grounding there is hum and the bass disappears, others have observed the same thing.

The ifi 4.4mm to 4.4mm cable is so big and clunky I have ordered a Forza Audioworks 4.4mm to 4.4mm cable, matched to my Forza headphone cables ..... why not !!

I actually tried Diablo on my HE9LE, and I could here the hum, really annoying. So the sleeve/ground on the 4.4, of the stock cable is not being used?

also
(OCC7N~) The stereo image has not changed from the balanced view, there are still some “missing” in the upper mids(recessed). Elite adds lowest low but the highest highs(after the recessed upmids) is very interesting, its from here you will notice how deep/bass it sounds.


Brilliant:
I'd say you know 'pretty well' what you are doing, and have a great ear for identifying what is 'going on'; cheers for observations- muchos gratias (eek- no idea how to spell that; all the same "many thanks")

Bob P~ smiles with ye mon amigo..

RE: balanced mode- doubles the slew rate and that is probably the big boon for the 'upgrade/sidegrade'... not sure if slew rate contributes to a better dampening factor, but I wholeheartedly believe that big driver dynamics (meant to write 'dynamic drivers', but dynamics in terms of an observable quality of sound playback too, so will leave it ambiguous) -really flourish in just such an environment.

I find that the Diablo in balanced mode does up the ante a wee bit.. From something like a FiiO M11+ the balanced mode output is nearly essential for 'large driver' headphones (for 'best' sound output quality)..

Otherwise I'm not really that concerned regarding 'balanced' headphone outputs vs Single Ended...
(I'd take a 'within budget' bargain second hand part that is S.E. only over a newer budget pricepoint balanced topology if the S.E. output only amp was from a tier of kit vastly higher... good times for audio bargains, really...)

But if you have a Diablo, AND have cans with an easy cable swap option, a decent cable might be worthwhile... (to experience the doubled "slew rate" 'sound')
When I played with balanced cables, an 'entry level' FiiO cable didn't do much for me.. (the lack of 'cable break in' probably robbed more from the sound than my older 'stock' Ultrasone Ed5 cables gave.. ), but when I switched up to some nicer ALO Pure silver, the improvements in vocals and music fluidity was certainly 'a thing'.
I have a feeling they might be cryogenically treated and therefore not need be 'used within the last two weeks' to have the cable in a 'settled' use state.

Cables of course are the last nuances of sound, and, as correctly discussed and reminding those new to the hobby, are not overt differences that stand out like changing a set of headphones does..

(Rotating cables is for those with a finished setup, and hobby money to invest into something they might care about)
and for all those talking psychoacoustics etc.. (your worldview is just as based in the 'dark ages of (audio) science as the 'rest of us' - ie your subjective reality is just as subjective as my subjective reality),.. the difference on familiar tracks when listening to specific elements can really show overt/OBVIOUS differences.
For me it was the monks voices on "Principles of Lust" (Enigma). They sounded magically higher in the soundstage, and had a real 'etheral'/other worldly quality to them.
VS stock (s.e.) cable and a 'budget balanced cable', it was a massive difference.
for the scientists - probably just an impedance change, yes? (for anyone else who give credit that a company that makes a crust from selling cables and MIGHT have done some testing etc... it could be the notions that silver materials generally remove sibilance etc.. but then that would be observation bias and expectations)

I love the giant blinkers that people choose to wear in order to attempt to dismiss facts (hey, ME TOO!!)
like everything in this world, we can find evidence to support anything we choose to see, AND there is a lot of noise regarding these subjects.

so maybe chose a cable you like the look of, as apparently the placebo of thinking it will do a better job is 9/10ths the battle.

If you have nice flagship headphones, maybe do not strangle their performance with the cheapest balanced cables as they probably would not be equal with those that come in the box.. (and the manufacturer themselves has considered spending more money on 'undisclosed cable tech and build' so as to have their cutting edge headphones to sound 'their best', might, if cables DO contribute/alter sound quality, actually be worthwhile..)

Whilst I'd love some Nordost cables, a vastly more budget friendly pricepoint ALO 'did the trick for me'.

My initial 2 impression like a mentioned in the start of the post, was at Turbo/SE 12-3 oclock.

After this yesterday I actually switced all the way down to ECO, still with SE, 3 oclock. Really relaxing and the recessed higher mids seemed much less, but the imaging felt stable and leveled.

It seems to me this diablo sounds best on relaxed volume level, when gaining volume the soundstage tightens up and the levels becomes uneven, which also gives an holographic experience….maybe?

 

[Bob Parish]

Bob P~ smiles with ye mon amigo..

 

[BS5711]

I actually tried Diablo on my HE9LE, and I could here the hum, really annoying. So the sleeve/ground on the 4.4, of the stock cable is not being used?

I am not sure, I don’t have a balanced DAC with XLR out to connect to Diablo as an amp.

The Diablo can be used as a DAC into an amp with a 4 wire set up, perhaps depending on the amp, but when used as an amp from a balanced DAC it requires a ground.

With 4.4mm to 4.4mm the ifi cable has all 5 poles connected, I checked with a continuity tester. That cable works fine, 4 pole cables do not.

I don’t like the big ugly plug bodies on the ifi cable so have ordered a Forza 4.4mm to 4.4mm braided cable to match my three Forza headphone cables ….. why not

 

[Bob Parish]

After this yesterday I actually switced all the way down to ECO, still with SE, 3 oclock. Really relaxing and the recessed higher mids seemed much less, but the imaging felt stable and leveled.

It seems to me this diablo sounds best on relaxed volume level, when gaining volume the soundstage tightens up and the levels becomes uneven, which also gives an holographic experience….maybe?

I found the same and use only Eco mode, it draw less from the power supply!
You can check my impressions here more than one year ago...

 

[Bob Parish]

I found the same and use only Eco mode, it draw less from the power supply!
You can check my impressions here more than one year ago...

And I'm looking for an used Elite power supply for my Diablo!
After almost two years, I don't want spend so much for a new one...

 

[OCC7N]

Using the Elite is cheating. It elevates the Diablos performance soo much

Its soo obvious. Already the usb drivers atleast 5times better than Chord TT2. My TT2 is embarrasing for games over USB/driver. Music in games sound worse than motherboard audio.
But Diablo is right upfront and clear.

 

[marcus2704]

To avoid derailing the DCA Expanse thread, I wanted to ask my question here. I have a Diablo and 5V Elite. When I use the Expanse, it clips terribly as per video:



Diablo is running via 6.35mm to DCAs, on Turbo gain with volume approx 2PM.

I was advised that I should only purchase the 5V version of the Elite for the Diablo, to buy anything greater risks damaging the unit. Seemingly, another advice suggests that 5V may be the issue, and had I of bought a 15V or whatever, it would of been fine as the unit draws only the power it needs.

So is my issue simply because the Diablo is not suitable source for the Expanse, or that the Elite I have is not able to provide the voltage needed?