[Blackwoof]

Maybe the ER4 driver is a bit too tiny and and the sound waves are too shrunk down to sound properly. The driver size certainly seems to impact its dynamic range.

It's a deep fitting IEM i have no idea why people say the ER4 driver too small to work, When it uses 5 mm BA drivers. The ER4 with EQ, Still outperforms IEM's that use 7mm and above dynamic drivers. Even with a 6db bass boost my ER3SE bass still sounds way more clean/tight than the ER2SE. The old ER4S/B had much better treble quality and extension than DD IEM's, A lot of 7 ~ 13mm has roll of after 10k.

I've no idea why driver size is assumed to play a role when even the HD600 & others kick butt with 40mm Dynamic drivers. By that logic the ER2XR should be struggling since its driver is 5mm?.

 

[castleofargh]

On a scale of 1.65 to celery, I'm guessing micro details are in the range between just noticeable and mini details?

I disagree with some of what is being said on both sides. Mostly I think you have no proper evidence to support either positions, because too many extra variables are at play when you try different gears. So I wonder how you could possibly know that the driver tech is the one variable causing whatever you're trying to describe subjectively? For example, just judging details or timbre or smoothness without first ensuring that we have the same FR at the eardrum, that's going to pretty much guaranty false conclusions for any subjective attempt at defining more than FR. Everything we know about psychoacoustics is suggesting as much.

So my own position would be: it's complicated.

 

[491838]

On a scale of 1.65 to celery, I'm guessing micro details are in the range between just noticeable and mini details?

I disagree with some of what is being said on both sides. Mostly I think you have no proper evidence to support either positions, because too many extra variables are at play when you try different gears. So I wonder how you could possibly know that the driver tech is the one variable causing whatever you're trying to describe subjectively? For example, just judging details or timbre or smoothness without first ensuring that we have the same FR at the eardrum, that's going to pretty much guaranty false conclusions for any subjective attempt at defining more than FR. Everything we know about psychoacoustics is suggesting as much.

So my own position would be: it's complicated.

Well, if you get the proper fit the ER4 should sound very similar to most people. I perceive it essentially the way it's measured on the Etymotic site (they have a graph there) and it does sound amazing for the price, especially in the treble.

I think the problem is that people don't listen to music the same way. Some people may just have a general awareness of what is happening in a song and others might focus obsessively on individual sounds and instruments.

The evidence is in the listening.

Edit: The way I perceive the BA timbre and representation of texture is more akin to CRT displays the more I think about it (I know, it's going to sound like another stupid audiophile analogy but that's the best I can describe what I'm hearing). The ER4 is very precise like some old CRT monitors were, they actually had great color accuracy (analogous to tonal balance if you will), high refresh rates that exceeded 100 Hz unlike the early LCDs (analogous to what audiophiles call speed or decay, or simply put perceived detail or lack of harshness/grain), and could provide a very clear and natural picture in many cases but they didn't have the ultimate detail reproduction that a modern digital display could output (say OLED). In other words, they provided a smoother and seemingly more natural picture but at the cost of some small details, like pixel level, that were simply smudged due to the analog technology.

That's kinda how I view the ER4. The detail is smoothed out a lot in a way that may sound natural to some but when you really pay attention to it you can kinda tell that it is missing something. Instruments sound kinda distant and one dimensional. But despite this odd timbre characteristic I still think it beats full size headphones of the likes of the HD600 for detail. At times it almost seems to come close to the LCD-2 (which I EQ to sound similar to the ER4) but it doesn't render small details in quite as obvious way. For that reason, many people would call the BA timbre "platicky" or artificial but for my tastes it's not that bad. Just not the best driver tech to use for the world's most accurate earphone I think. I just wish they'd make another ER4 with a high performance DD or small e-stat or something if it were possible. Or why not just a full size headphone for that matter. I'd be super interested in that.

 

[benji18tat]

hello everbody , bought er2se, they are great but after hf5 i found highs are lacking a bit, and female vocals and strings not as clear as hf5 as well, but oh boy, tried these parametric eq settings from this review https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/64157774 and i was just shocked how good they could sound, equal if not better than er4b, author says that after proper eqing its the best sounding etys, what do you think?

 

[benji18tat]

hello everbody , bought er2se, they are great but after hf5 i found highs are lacking a bit, and female vocals and strings not as clear as hf5 as well, but oh boy, tried these parametric eq settings from this review https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/64157774 and i was just shocked how good they could sound, equal if not better than er4b, author says that after proper eqing its the best sounding etys, what do you think?

25hz minus 2
31hz minus 2.5
40hz minus 3
50hz minus 3,3
63hz minus 3,5
80hz minus 3,3
100hz minus 3.3
125hz minus 3
160hz minus 2.9
200hz minus 2,7
250hz minus 2,7
315hz minus 2.7
400hz minus 2,37
500hz minus 2
630hz minus 1,7
800hz minus 2.15
1000hz minus 3.35
1250hz minus 4.81
1600hz minus 5.15
2000hz minus 4.36
2500hz minus 4.54
3150hz minus 3.49
4000hz minus 2.47
5000hz minus 2.09
6200hz minus 1.5
8000hz minus 3.0
1000hz minus 1.5

 

[491838]

For people who have heard the ER4SR and XR, is it worth getting the SR? Are there any significant benefits for mids and treble in terms of accuracy? I'm also worried that the SR might have too little bass.

 

[dr cornelius]

For people who have heard the ER4SR and XR, is it worth getting the SR? Are there any significant benefits for mids and treble in terms of accuracy? I'm also worried that the SR might have too little bass.

I think it comes down to personal preference. I started with the XR, and exchanged them for SR's. I typically go for more neutral; I like Sony MDR-7506 vs V6, and Sennheiser HD 600 over the 650. But - after using the SR's for a couple years, I'm back with the 4XR. The trade-off might be some accuracy loss in the lower mids (depending on the program), but I really missed the bass, and I'm not a bass head.

The single driver might not always be up to the task of more bass, but in some instances, the XR actually can sound more neutral. There's a certain dryness I get with the SR, which I don't hear in the XR. I also think that soundstage, which is Ety's weak point, is a little better with the XR. I use my 'phones to mix dialogue/SFX/music for work, and I get better mixes with the XR's...

 

[richll93]

Anyone have experience regarding insertion depth, "occlusion effect", second bend, etc. ?
I've had an ER4SR for a couple weeks and I'm still not sure I've found the right insertion depth. Been using this blogpost as my only guide http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-deep-do-you-insert-you-er4.html
"Insert your ER4 upto the 2nd bend, or until you can not hear the resonance of your own voice. "
The "resonance" never goes away for me. I've been inserting it until it won't go any further (the point when the earphone becomes so wide it can't enter my ear). I'm not noticing any benefits. The bass actually seems quieter sometimes when I insert the full length(?). Might be imagining that part.
Not complaining by the way. Overall I've been having a lot of fun. Just not sure if this second bend stuff I'm reading about online is splitting hairs, or if I'm genuinely not experiencing ER4s properly.

 

[smorgar]

I'm inserting mine as far as I can with the dual flange tips. At one point it just stops and seems to hit bone. The sound is perfect for me. I have never heard a better sounding headphone or iem since I got my ER4SR about two years ago. Even better with the new dual flange tips. The small tri flange goes in a bit further, but that hurts like a MF if I manage to hit that depth. It's like the tip of the small tri flange pops in over the second bend and kinda hooks in place, very hard and painful to take out after that. The smallest dual flange is larger than the tip of the small tri flange and it just slides in and stops at the second bend for me. 9/10 times I get perfect insert on first try with the new dual flange tips.

A tip for people that's having a hard time getting used to the deep insert due to pain is to use normal foam earplugs when you sleep or any other time to make the pain go away without having to use the more painful tri/dual flange tips.
I had problems with pain the first month. After that I could use the ettys for about 1-3h at the time before the pain slowly came back till I had to take them out. I started sleeping with earplugs due to noisy neighbors and all of a sudden I could use the Etymotics for longer periods of time with no pain and it was easier to insert without discomfort. And now with the dual flange tips I almost forget they are in my ears. I have not experienced any pain with the dual flange tips so far, even after 3-5h.

Two thumbs up for the new dual flange tips from me. More thumbs if I had any

 

[491838]

I think it comes down to personal preference. I started with the XR, and exchanged them for SR's. I typically go for more neutral; I like Sony MDR-7506 vs V6, and Sennheiser HD 600 over the 650. But - after using the SR's for a couple years, I'm back with the 4XR. The trade-off might be some accuracy loss in the lower mids (depending on the program), but I really missed the bass, and I'm not a bass head.

The single driver might not always be up to the task of more bass, but in some instances, the XR actually can sound more neutral. There's a certain dryness I get with the SR, which I don't hear in the XR. I also think that soundstage, which is Ety's weak point, is a little better with the XR. I use my 'phones to mix dialogue/SFX/music for work, and I get better mixes with the XR's...

Yeah, I should probably just use the money to buy a new cable (I broke the old one) and keep the ER4XR. I actually don't think it would be an upgrade necessarily since I don't really like the treble quality that much on the ER4. The tuning can sound absolutely perfect on many songs but it does have some harshness that I don't experience on my LCD-2 which can already emulate the sound of the ER4 via EQ pretty well, but without the harshness in the treble.

I guess I'll just wait for an upgraded and perfected ER4.

Anyone have experience regarding insertion depth, "occlusion effect", second bend, etc. ?
I've had an ER4SR for a couple weeks and I'm still not sure I've found the right insertion depth. Been using this blogpost as my only guide http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-deep-do-you-insert-you-er4.html
"Insert your ER4 upto the 2nd bend, or until you can not hear the resonance of your own voice. "
The "resonance" never goes away for me. I've been inserting it until it won't go any further (the point when the earphone becomes so wide it can't enter my ear). I'm not noticing any benefits. The bass actually seems quieter sometimes when I insert the full length(?). Might be imagining that part.
Not complaining by the way. Overall I've been having a lot of fun. Just not sure if this second bend stuff I'm reading about online is splitting hairs, or if I'm genuinely not experiencing ER4s properly.

The big triple flange tips are the intended tips believe it or not though proper insertion might be impossible for some. If they don't fit you well and you lose bass as result you should cut the biggest flange and convert them to two flange like people have suggested in this thread. I tried it and the results are amazing. I've been listening to the ER4 all wrong it turns out until I started using the modded 2-flange.

With the small triple flanges I get too deep a fit and I actually lose some bass and quite a bit of treble, so the sound is relatively muddy. With the aforementioned mod of the big triple flange tips I get the proper treble response (flat line above 10K) and tighter bass and the 98% isolation.

 

[Blackwoof]

The single driver might not always be up to the task of more bass, but in some instances, the XR actually can sound more neutral. There's a certain dryness I get with the SR, which I don't hear in the XR. I also think that soundstage, which is Ety's weak point, is a little better with the XR. I use my 'phones to mix dialogue/SFX/music for work, and I get better mixes with the XR's...

Sound like you getting used to the XR sound than a single driver quirk, I've yet hear a multi driver rival a single driver tuned for more low end or EQ bass boost on flat versions like the ER4SR. With a 4 db bass boost it really helps fill out a lot of genres without any loss on clarity on my 3SE.

I must be the rare few because the soundstage of the ety's never bother me.

 

[491838]

Found a graph (old InnerFidelity post) of the Etymotic target. Just as I suspected, 6-8K is a little withdrawn and the high treble is slightly emphasized and there is some 1-2K boost as well but otherwise highly coherent. Funny how I EQ-ed my LCD-2 to fix those issues but emulate the ER4 sound somewhat and I ended up fixing exactly what the deviations are in the graph.

 

[majo123]

Apologies if someone has already posted this but Just came across it.
https://drop.com/buy/etymotic-er4sr-er4xr-iems?utm_placement=0&referer=VBXM7U&mode=shop_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2020-02-09&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1581253036574.239648382742395851085148


Bargain.

 

[mochill]

Can anyone help me buy the er4B?

 

[Max Choiral]

Sound like you getting used to the XR sound than a single driver quirk, I've yet hear a multi driver rival a single driver tuned for more low end or EQ bass boost on flat versions like the ER4SR. With a 4 db bass boost it really helps fill out a lot of genres without any loss on clarity on my 3SE.

I must be the rare few because the soundstage of the ety's never bother me.

What I experienced is that most multi BA trying to emulate not the best examples of "dynamic bass". Its character can be described as "rounded', soft lacks ultimate texture. Unfortunately, Er4 new generation inherits almost the same bass character.
"Soundstage" is relative to fit just like everything else. Er4 doesn't fall short in this term compared to CA Andro or Solaris for example. That's how I hear it.