[Raketen]

I really like the Roxanne and Angie though. But my playlist is very rock focused. Roxanne has AMAZING soundstage and sound of the best bass detail ever.

I was impressed with Billie Jean at CanJam... the mids had this quality I don't know how to describe but as something like a "wet resonance". Does all the JH stuff share this property? I think I've seen people refer to "wet" and "liquid" mids before, I guess this is what they meant.

With all the talk of EQing IEMs to sound like Ety recently I'm slightly curious as to what it would take to accomplish that wetness on an ER4. I play with EQ occasionally but non-seriously, for fun or to correct minor annoyances, have yet to stumble on that type of sound. On the Billie Jean it seems to have a spatial affect that makes my layperson brain imagine some nonsense like a "harmonic reverb" DSP.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I was impressed with Billie Jean at CanJam... the mids had this quality I don't know how to describe but as something like a "wet resonance". Does all the JH stuff share this property? I think I've seen people refer to "wet" and "liquid" mids before, I guess this is what they meant.

With all the talk of EQing IEMs to sound like Ety recently I'm slightly curious as to what it would take to accomplish that wetness on an ER4. I play with EQ occasionally but non-seriously, for fun or to correct minor annoyances, have yet to stumble on that type of sound. On the Billie Jean it seems to have a spatial affect that makes me envision some nonsense like a "harmonic reverb" DSP.

Just reduce the 3khz region. Basically I did impulse response convolution with er4. It genuinely sounds as horrible as lola or jh24. And it's not only 3khz but also something about the multidriver response etc. All information is contained in impulse response.

 

[ClieOS]

Still one correction. It is ok to say tho made the first product. But not who invented iem. Iems were already appearing in the 70s. There shouldn't be anyone who invented iems.

Whatever makes you happy, I guess.

 

[Colors]

Gonna give these a listen soon.

 

[Max Choiral]

I’ve only tried the IE400 pro / 500 pro. To me the sound signature is different, SR is dead flat but the sens are not. I wouldn’t say the sens 400 / 500 are superior to the er4 at its own game. In fact I don’t think any other IEM are going to beat Etys at their own game.

IE500 Pro has the thinnest sound I have ever heard in IEM & very small congested stereo image. Too expensive for what it offers.

 

[491838]

I have to say, no. Yes the texture of er4 is different from hd600. But it's the hd600 which has the extra texture not as glossy and clean. I think it's partially foam. But as I can't interpret impulse response directly I can only say so much.
BA doesn't sound soft at all. er4 is actually very hard sounding iem when I first heard them. And separation is one of the best of all iems. Seriously, you can pin point each instrument. The illusion of it being less separated is because the lack of dip around 3khz. It makes everything forward. When you have an ellipse and you pull it vertically what happens the left right gets closer. That's what happens with er4. But the depth is much better.
In terms of higher performance ba. I think this is it. higher performance ba won't happen in the near future. I guess that why they continue to make dynamic driver iems and improve each time. Seriously the original er4 in the 90s uses 99% similar driver as today er4sr's. Ba driver comes only to a trade off of sensitivity, bandwidth, distortion and size. Hard to improve.

I think the soft texture is indeed indicative of a higher level of detail. It sounds more lifelike in a way without hyping any details really. Even if the HD600 forces more details to the surface like dynamics seem to do, a lot of that "detail" is grain. I'm in love with the smoothness of the BA Etymotic uses frankly and don't mind it even if it makes some songs sound muffled (a little).

The dynamics of the headphone are weak though. This is evident even on acoustic and such, which has excellent dynamic range usually. In this regard, something like the HD600 sounds more spacious or effortless. But the ER3\ER4 sounds more effortless in its texture. I find the grain of $300 dynamics to be bothersome after a while. Etymotics don't really show much grain or it is indeed very smooth.

 

[Colors]

The ER2XR are pretty nice (great for the price) but I probably made the mistake of listening/testing them after the K10. It sounds a bit sterile (but with more textured bass and vocals than the ER4SR for sure). I just actually prefer my ER4SR more as its sound is more unique and I still haven’t found anything that kind of does what it does. Also I like the bass on it is a bit better. Like the 4XR, the 2XR is a tad too boosted for me. It’s still ridiculously good for USD130 though (on sale on Amazon right now). Just not what I’m looking for in my collection. In other words, I don’t see it complimenting my 4SR, they compete and the 4SR just wins for me.

 

[Raketen]

The ER2XR are pretty nice (great for the price) but I probably made the mistake of listening/testing them after the K10. It sounds a bit sterile (but with more textured bass and vocals than the ER4SR for sure). I just actually prefer my ER4SR more as its sound is more unique and I still haven’t found anything that kind of does what it does. Also I like the bass on it is a bit better. Like the 4XR, the 2XR is a tad too boosted for me. It’s still ridiculously good for USD130 though (on sale on Amazon right now). Just not what I’m looking for in my collection. In other words, I don’t see it complimenting my 4SR, they compete and the 4SR just wins for me.

This is similar to how I feel about the ER2SE... Until recently I was mostly just comparing it directly to other earphones. Having used it alone for a couple days I find a lot of those complaints go away and only come back in direct comparisons. My other issue are the clear tips, which I find comfortable but are sized differently than the old style greys, I use smaller clears and have to be more mindful of insertion depth otherwise it exaggerates otherwise minor sound complaints and find myself tweaking fit a little too much.

Considered on its own and not competing with a collection of IEMs, I think it's a pretty strong option, especially below the list price- I think I would rank it with Carbo Tenore, FXH-30, XB90EX, and ATH-IM02, my other "price : performance" favorites.

 

[SilverEars]

This is similar to how I feel about the ER2SE... Until recently I was mostly just comparing it directly to other earphones. Having used it alone for a couple days I find a lot of those complaints go away and only come back in direct comparisons. My other issue are the clear tips, which I find comfortable but are sized differently than the old style greys, I use smaller clears and have to be more mindful of insertion depth otherwise it exaggerates otherwise minor sound complaints and find myself tweaking fit a little too much.

Considered on its own and not competing with a collection of IEMs, I think it's a pretty strong option, especially below the list price- I think I would rank it with Carbo Tenore, FXH-30, XB90EX, and ATH-IM02, my other "price : performance" favorites.

I wasn't getting good fit with the newer clear triple flanges (even the large wasn't working well for me). My right ear was struggling to get the right fit. I don't recall having so much trouble way back when I had the ER4P. I had the older grey silicone triple flanges back then, and from memory, they had more friction and adherence.

 

[panasonicst60]

I wasn't getting good fit with the newer clear triple flanges (even the large wasn't working well for me). My right ear was struggling to get the right fit. I don't recall having so much trouble way back when I had the ER4P. I had the older grey silicone triple flanges back then, and from memory, they had more friction and adherence.

I still have the old grey ones and they are slightly bigger in all dimensions. Also a tad thicker rubber too. They fit me way better than the newer clear tips. I settled on the foam ones because they don't make the grey ones anymore. FYI the grey ones on sale now are different than the old ones. They are very similar to the clear ones, which doesn't work for me either.

 

[Max Choiral]

I think the soft texture is indeed indicative of a higher level of detail. It sounds more lifelike in a way without hyping any details really. Even if the HD600 forces more details to the surface like dynamics seem to do, a lot of that "detail" is grain. I'm in love with the smoothness of the BA Etymotic uses frankly and don't mind it even if it makes some songs sound muffled (a little).

The dynamics of the headphone are weak though. This is evident even on acoustic and such, which has excellent dynamic range usually. In this regard, something like the HD600 sounds more spacious or effortless. But the ER3\ER4 sounds more effortless in its texture. I find the grain of $300 dynamics to be bothersome after a while. Etymotics don't really show much grain or it is indeed very smooth.

Er, I'm not sure whether headfiers have their own meaning of dynamic range. Isn't in music dynamic range a difference between the quietest and loudest volume of an instrument, part or piece of music?

 

[491838]

Er, I'm not sure whether headfiers have their own meaning of dynamic range. Isn't in music dynamic range a difference between the quietest and loudest volume of an instrument, part or piece of music?

Yes, that's exactly right though it is related to instrument separation as well. On the HD600 even well recorded tracks like this one sound more effortless:

The strings and background instruments don't get buried in the mix as much as they do on the Etymotic ER3\ER4. This effect is more noticeable on other genres that emphasize bass, like pop or electronic. Though on very well recorded songs the difference is less noticeable. However, whenever I start listening to new music and when I find a song that sounds really good the sense of transparency and clarity on the ER3 is quite astonishing despite the somewhat soft\weak dynamics.

 

[castleofargh]

Er, I'm not sure whether headfiers have their own meaning of dynamic range. Isn't in music dynamic range a difference between the quietest and loudest volume of an instrument, part or piece of music?

I'm working on a universal audiophile lingo translator prototype. but it must be very buggy because when I enter most sentences about dynamic, speed, air, details... the translator returns "he's describing how he feels about the signature" 9 times out of 10.

 

[491838]

I'm working on a universal audiophile lingo translator prototype. but it must be very buggy because when I enter most sentences about dynamic, speed, air, details... the translator returns "he's describing how he feels about the signature" 9 times out of 10.

Believe me I hate audiophile jargon in general but that difference is hard to describe and yes dynamics does describe it. Do you not know what that term means?

I hear the softness of the sound even in high dynamic range tracks, like jazz tracks, but it is especially apparent in electronic music and pop. Basically kick drums kinda get buried in the mix so to speak, or the low frequency percussion gets melded with the bass. However, the sub bass rumble is very good. Very high quality for the price. Dynamic driver IEMs and full size headphones don't come close in refinement generally.

I think Etymotic has addressed the issue of dynamic range but they claim its recording specific, which is only a half-truth. What would then separate high end headphones from lower end ones? Other than detail? Etys are not low end by any means, in fact I would place them in the high mid-tier of things, but they simply do not perform quite as well in terms of dynamic range even compared to cheap dynamic driver IEMs like the AKG earbuds that I got with my phone. Even that cheap IEM sounds more spacious because of that difference between loud and soft is rendered more accurately. Perhaps the tiny BA driver can't quite keep up although overall texture seems to indicate that BAs are quicker overall.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Believe me I hate audiophile jargon in general but that difference is hard to describe and yes dynamics does describe it. Do you not know what that term means?

I hear the softness of the sound even in high dynamic range tracks, like jazz tracks, but it is especially apparent in electronic music and pop. Basically kick drums kinda get buried in the mix so to speak, or the low frequency percussion gets melded with the bass. However, the sub bass rumble is very good. Very high quality for the price. Dynamic driver IEMs and full size headphones don't come close in refinement generally.

I think Etymotic has addressed the issue of dynamic range but they claim its recording specific, which is only a half-truth. What would then separate high end headphones from lower end ones? Other than detail? Etys are not low end by end means, in fact I would place them in the high mid-tier of things, but they simply do not perform quite as well in terms of dynamic range even compared to cheap dynamic driver IEMs like the AKG earbuds that I got with my phone. Even that cheap IEM sounds more spacious because of that difference between loud and soft is rendered more accurately. Perhaps the tiny BA driver can't quite keep up although overall texture seems to indicate that BAs are quicker overall.

There are simply smoothness and accuracy in frequency response(and impulse) and non linearity distortion (imd thd). The dynamic is just distortion at high level and the noise. Noise is determined by isolation and source. and distortion is easily measurable. The sound of dynamic driver can be measured as non-smoothness in both frequency response and time domain. As some dd iem with super smooth frequency response, they don't sound like other dd earphones/headphones. Also the match of the two drivers is very important. But that's something different. And you need to understand soundstage is just fake and stuff extra generated. Only way you can evaluate soundstage is using hrtf recordings.
So basically if you want to compare two different type of drivers or anything, you need to keep frequency response matched. If you don't, it can almost always explained by frequency response. Because it just is the biggest factor of all the sound.