[csglinux]

Might anyone know if the FiiO X1 second gen would be a definite step up in sound quality from the Sansa Clip +? How about the power to drive the sound, is it comparable, or more so?

The X1ii is a step-up in both power and sound-quality from the Clip. There are other small players I like too (e.g., Shanling M1, which has a lot more features), but the X1ii is the best small player I've found for sound quality.

 

[mw7485]

The Cowon plenue D may be worth a try. Its small, got great battery life and the reports of its performance seem pretty positive....

 

[castleofargh]

Hi,

So I just picked up a pair of ER-4XR, after using the ER-4P for many years. My DAP is the Sansa Clip +. I'm happy with the ER-4XR for sure, but I think I may need to change my setup to fully realize what they can do. So I'd like to briefly share what I feel are positive and negative aaspects of my current setup, and then ask for your advice.

Positive:
- they are more comfortable in the ears than the ER-4P (are these slightly narrower?)
- bass is fantastic
- much more detail in the treble, I can hear things I wasn't able to hear with the ER-4P
- I can hear much more separation between the instruments (is the term for this, a wider soundstage? in any case its obvious and welcome)

Negative:
- these are a bit harder to drive than the ER-4P. For some tracks I feel like they could use a little more power behind them. I never felt that with the ER-4P and Sansa Clip + combination.
- On a few tracks I feel like the sound is a bit "thin" in the treble. The treble sounds... over pronounced, as if its very obvious and sticking out in the music too much. I feel like this could lead to some fatigue, not to mention just not sounding great, so I'd like it to be a bit warmer.

Does this make sense, with my setup? Anyway, it's what I'm hearing.

So, I'd like a bit more power, and warmer in the treble, not as sharp. As I mentioned, I have the Sansa Clip +. I know it's an old player, and also a cheap player. That said, it has good sound for sure and for me it was great with the ER-4P, but not as much with the ER-4XR. Given that I'm looking for a bit more power (volume), and warmth in the treble, I'd love to hear your recommendations about how I could improve the sound with my current setup. I don't use an amp... might that be exactly what I need here? Which one? (would need to be small and portable). Or perhaps you have a recommendation of another DAP that works wonderfully with the ER-4XR, one that has significantly better sound quality than the Clip +, both more powerful and easier on the treble?

I did go back through many pages of this thread but I'm not sure what to do. So... I'm all ears!! Any advice welcome. THANKS...

I feel like the difference in signature from P to XR explains most of what you're describing, so I'm not sure changing DAP would really solve anything. maybe get used to it some more, maybe EQ a little if something really annoys you with the new signature?
on the other hand, most modern DAPs are effectively better than a clip+. most still don't offer as much in such a small format and might not have rockbox, parametric EQ and stuff like that, but if we're only looking at objective measurements, then for sure you can do better.
https://headphoniaks.com/fiio-x1ii-reproductor-portatil/ the X1 version 2 mentioned.
and the clip zip(for all intent and purposes, same as clip+, only rockbox changes a few things like the max output) measured by the same people, can be found on this page for reference. https://headphoniaks.com/agptek-b03-reproductor-mp3-barato/

 

[mark88888]

The Cowon plenue D may be worth a try. Its small, got great battery life and the reports of its performance seem pretty positive....

Hm, I just read a new review of this player
https://www.whathifi.com/cowon/plenue-d/review
and indeed it's a positive review.

Has anyone compared this player to the FiiO X1 second gen., especially with the use of the ER4-XR? Or anyway, any thoughts about which might have better sound quality, and more power to drive the phones?

Any other recommendations? Would spending another hundred dollars or so buy a DAP with significantly better sound quality, or not really?

In any case, something I like about these 2 players in question is that they're both small, and as far as I can tell both can skip ahead a track using actual buttons, not just the touch screen. But of course sound/compatability with the ER4-XR is the most important factor.

Thanks...

 

[BartSimpson1976]

You might consider the Shanling M2s. That's hat I use with the ER4XR and for my taste these wirl together pretty well.
Slightly warmish signature of the M2s pairs well with the relative flat Etys, nice base and detail retrieval. Nothing to complain.
More than enough power to drive the Etys, but I think any DAP will drive them well.

 

[mark88888]

I feel like the difference in signature from P to XR explains most of what you're describing, so I'm not sure changing DAP would really solve anything. maybe get used to it some more, maybe EQ a little if something really annoys you with the new signature?
on the other hand, most modern DAPs are effectively better than a clip+. most still don't offer as much in such a small format and might not have rockbox, parametric EQ and stuff like that, but if we're only looking at objective measurements, then for sure you can do better.
https://headphoniaks.com/fiio-x1ii-reproductor-portatil/ the X1 version 2 mentioned.
and the clip zip(for all intent and purposes, same as clip+, only rockbox changes a few things like the max output) measured by the same people, can be found on this page for reference. https://headphoniaks.com/agptek-b03-reproductor-mp3-barato/

Thanks for your thoughts. In fact, I like the sound of the Clip + with the ER-4P without any equalization, and I also like the UI (I know thats rare), so I never rockboxed it. I also dd buy and try the Clip Zip at some point but it wasnt for me. Also I thought the Clip Sport had a horrible design... so the Clip + think is a real sweet spot in the series. That said I'm looking for an upgrade! I feel like the ER-4XR is exposing flaws in the Clip, perhaps.

 

[mark88888]

You might consider the Shanling M2s. That's hat I use with the ER4XR and for my taste these wirl together pretty well.
Slightly warmish signature of the M2s pairs well with the relative flat Etys, nice base and detail retrieval. Nothing to complain.
More than enough power to drive the Etys, but I think any DAP will drive them well.

Hm. Wow. This looks like a nice little player as well.
If anyone has compared these to the Cowons and the Fiios under discussion I'd love to hear about it.
Also I am curious how the Shanlings would compare to the Sansa Clip + as far as the amount of power they put out. Would they drive the Etys better?

Oy, how to decide between these players... which is best? The Fiios are a good bit cheaper.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

The Shanling M2s delivers 130mW @ 32 Ohm and has no issues with the Etys. Believe the Clip+ was listed with 18mW but not sure if at 16 or 32 Ohms.
Anyhow, the Shanling has no issues with the Etys. I can vouch for it.

 

[mark88888]

This review is saying that the Shanling has very high output impedance (I will admit that I dont know if this has anything to do with the amount of power it puts out), so with sensitive IEMs its a bad fit because it blots out the sound, like a blanket is over the details. I guess this doesnt apply to the ER-4XR... are the ER4-XR not considered to be very sensitive earphones?
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shanling-m2-hifi-portable-lossless-musicl-player-dsd-player.21073/

 

[charleski]

This review is saying that the Shanling has very high output impedance (I will admit that I dont know if this has anything to do with the amount of power it puts out), so with sensitive IEMs its a bad fit because it blots out the sound, like a blanket is over the details. I guess this doesnt apply to the ER-4XR... are the ER4-XR not considered to be very sensitive earphones?
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/shanling-m2-hifi-portable-lossless-musicl-player-dsd-player.21073/

A lot of audiophile wibble in that review, but it's true that low output impedance is generally desirable. According to this post from Shanling, the output impedance is 12ohms, and the general rule is to allow a ratio of 1:8 for output:headphone impedance. This means it would be fine with the ER-4s (impedance 100ohms), but would possibly show some high frequency sag with the ER4XR (impedance 45ohms).

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

A lot of audiophile wibble in that review, but it's true that low output impedance is generally desirable. According to this post from Shanling, the output impedance is 12ohms, and the general rule is to allow a ratio of 1:8 for output:headphone impedance. This means it would be fine with the ER-4s (impedance 100ohms), but would possibly show some high frequency sag with the ER4XR (impedance 45ohms).

That's the M2 not M2s, M2s is the one being discussed and has 4Ohm output impedance

 

[mark88888]

That's the M2 not M2s, M2s is the one being discussed and has 4Ohm output impedance

Indeed, thank you for pointing that out.

So there are 3 DAPs under discussion here:

Shanling M2s
FiiO X1 second gen
Cowon Plenue D

All in the same neighborhood of price, Fiio a bit less.

I have no clue what to get. If anyone has heard more than one of these, especially with the ER4-XR ... or SR for that matter... would love to hear your thoughts. Or any other recommendations.

Am thinking about which would power them best (most power), and which might put out a nice warm (by that I mean detailed but not too tinny on the treble) sound. Or just best sound. I dunno. ?

In any case thank you they look like 3 nice players to consider.

 

[mark88888]

I have to add... I see that there are several other similar Fiio players: X3, X5. None are prohibitively expensive. Is there some reason why we are focusing on the X1? Are the X3 and X5 not better?

 

[bms44974]

I have to add... I see that there are several other similar Fiio players: X3, X5. None are prohibitively expensive. Is there some reason why we are focusing on the X1? Are the X3 and X5 not better?

I was going to suggest X5ii as it drives my ER4SR with authority. The X5iii is an upgrade from the X5ii, but a bit more expensive. I only hesitated because of the price.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

..... so with sensitive IEMs its a bad fit because it blots out the sound, like a blanket is over the details.

That's a heavy generalization, and it has nothing to do with details. High output impedance tends to be a problem mainly for MultiBA IEMs, however also not for all. Some are more forgiving than others. I had the JH13v2 before and they had no problems with 4.8 Ohms from the M2s.

are the ER4-XR not considered to be very sensitive earphones?

Not the slightest with 45 Ohm and 98db SPL. That's one of the most insensitive IEMs of all. Talk about Campfire Andromeda with 12 Ohm and 115db SPL. That is a sensitive IEM!

As the Etymotics are also SingleBA output impedance shouldn't bother them at all.