[WhatToChoose]

Regarding connectors, with my ER4XRs they don't wiggle at all (tested both sides). It is such a small key though that I can see manufacturing tolerances causing some to wiggle a little bit. I wouldn't worry though. Also, L from R, you could mark one cable side to indicate.

Regarding soundstage, even the ER4XR's are average sized. For 3D ness though, amping was what made the difference.

 

[Frederick Wang]

 
the S and SR won't create a soundstage revolution in your head, they have a relatively similar signature. the B is brighter, if you feel that brighter is better soundstage then maybe go for the B, or if you listen to binaural albums it could work well, but there is no hidden DSP to make for an actual soundstage in any of those devices and the technical variations are aimed at simply changing the frequency response.
EQ your S, something like a super wide high pass filter to tilt the signature of the er4s into something close to the B if you're curious, there are plenty of measurements of both models to guess a close enough EQ.
at a psycho acoustic level, more trebles makes it easier to pinpoint the position of an instrument. that can feel more precise, not bigger.  while more low frequencies actually are hard to locate so they can give a feeling of being surrounded by sound, and that could give a feeling of wider areas of sound. but ultimately, unless you listen to binaural stuff, the soundstage on IEMs is wrong by nature for albums mastered for speakers and you should look for crossfeed or something like that to try and get closer to actual instrument positioning as intended at the mastering stage. that part shouldn't be the job of the IEMs in my opinion.
 
subjectively the IEMs I feel to have the most expensive space, all have a lot of subs. but let me be very clear, I don't feel like it's a proper headstage or whatever that should be called on headphones, only that music feels slightly bigger and more in 3D to me with a good deal of subs. fake but impressive, and pretty much the opposite of what the er4b tries to achieve.

Thank you a lot, sir. To me that is mind-blowing. I never thought it that way

 

[CraftyClown]

the S and SR won't create a soundstage revolution in your head, they have a relatively similar signature. the B is brighter, if you feel that brighter is better soundstage then maybe go for the B, or if you listen to binaural albums it could work well, but there is no hidden DSP to make for an actual soundstage in any of those devices and the technical variations are aimed at simply changing the frequency response.
EQ your S, something like a super wide high pass filter to tilt the signature of the er4s into something close to the B if you're curious, there are plenty of measurements of both models to guess a close enough EQ.
at a psycho acoustic level, more trebles makes it easier to pinpoint the position of an instrument. that can feel more precise, not bigger.  while more low frequencies actually are hard to locate so they can give a feeling of being surrounded by sound, and that could give a feeling of wider areas of sound. but ultimately, unless you listen to binaural stuff, the soundstage on IEMs is wrong by nature for albums mastered for speakers and you should look for crossfeed or something like that to try and get closer to actual instrument positioning as intended at the mastering stage. that part shouldn't be the job of the IEMs in my opinion.

subjectively the IEMs I feel to have the most expensive space, all have a lot of subs. but let me be very clear, I don't feel like it's a proper headstage or whatever that should be called on headphones, only that music feels slightly bigger and more in 3D to me with a good deal of subs. fake but impressive, and pretty much the opposite of what the er4b tries to achieve.

So theoretically the XR with its slight hike in the lower frequencies, could provide a slightly more expansive feeling stage?

 

[Voyageur]

So theoretically the XR with its slight hike in the lower frequencies, could provide a slightly more expansive feeling stage?

To me it's the contrary. The warmer sound of the XR makes it sound more congested than the SR, which seems slightly airier and more open in comparison. But they're extremely close as you would expect, and although they've improved over the Classic series you shouldn't expect a expansive, out of the head soundstage experience.

 

[WhatToChoose]

To me it's the contrary. The warmer sound of the XR makes it sound more congested than the SR, which seems slightly airier and more open in comparison. But they're extremely close as you would expect, and although they've improved over the Classic series you shouldn't expect a expansive, out of the head soundstage experience.

I've listened to essentially bassless IEMs before, this description sounds about right. It is almost as if the bass completes the soundstage, but in doing so it kind of pulls everything a bit closer together.

 

[CraftyClown]

I guess this is a pretty subjective topic anyways, seeing as a relative soundstage in IEMs is pretty tough to define. I personally find the best way to look at imaging/soundstage/headstage or whatever definition you want to use is with good binaural recordings. They are at least designed to create a more realistic soundscape that doesn't necessarily feel like it's stuck in the middle of your head

 

[castleofargh]

I guess this is a pretty subjective topic anyways, seeing as a relative soundstage in IEMs is pretty tough to define. I personally find the best way to look at imaging/soundstage/headstage or whatever definition you want to use is with good binaural recordings. They are at least designed to create a more realistic soundscape that doesn't necessarily feel like it's stuck in the middle of your head

you notice that the last part of my post about the subs was aside from the rest on purpose and full of "subjective", "I feel", etc. ^_^
I really make no claims on that particular matter and it's only how I seem to feel.

 

[CraftyClown]

you notice that the last part of my post about the subs was aside from the rest on purpose and full of "subjective", "I feel", etc. ^_^
I really make no claims on that particular matter and it's only how I seem to feel. :wink_face:

Hence in my post I said 'theoretically' and 'could provide'

I'm getting used to hanging around in the sound science forums

 

[DivineCurrent]

This has probably been talked about in the thread already, but how is treble extension on any of the ER4 versions for you all? Etymotic says there is accurate response up to 16khz, where graphs show there is a steady drop off past that point, but I don't know if that will be noticeable enough to worry about. Can most people hear well and clearly past 16khz anyway?

 

[CraftyClown]

This has probably been talked about in the thread already, but how is treble extension on any of the ER4 versions for you all? Etymotic says there is accurate response up to 16khz, where graphs show there is a steady drop off past that point, but I don't know if that will be noticeable enough to worry about. Can most people hear well and clearly past 16khz anyway?

If you're really curious you can check exactly what frequency you're capable of hearing

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html

For reference, I can only hear up to 13,500 kHz

 

[luisdent]

  This has probably been talked about in the thread already, but how is treble extension on any of the ER4 versions for you all? Etymotic says there is accurate response up to 16khz, where graphs show there is a steady drop off past that point, but I don't know if that will be noticeable enough to worry about. Can most people hear well and clearly past 16khz anyway?

 
Statistically, or scientifically, no. Most people that are healthy lose high frequency hearing gradually as they age. Most people of that group lose hearing even faster due to concerts, loud noises at the workplace, etc. Statistically, very very few people can reliably hear past 16khz no matter how many "goldenears" would tell you they are capable. Is it possible? Yes. Of course there are some people, myself included that can hear at least to 17khz or even approach 20khz. But the truth is most people won't hear those frequencies at the same relative level as say 10khz, so while they can technically "hear" them, they can't really "hear" them. haha 16khz is pretty good, and most earphones/headphones don't even replicated frequencies well that high.
 

 

This has probably been talked about in the thread already, but how is treble extension on any of the ER4 versions for you all? Etymotic says there is accurate response up to 16khz, where graphs show there is a steady drop off past that point, but I don't know if that will be noticeable enough to worry about. Can most people hear well and clearly past 16khz anyway?

If you're really curious you can check exactly what frequency you're capable of hearing

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html

For reference, I can only hear up to 13,500 kHz

 
Just be careful all the pieces of the chain of audio are capable of reproducing the full frequency spectrum. Not everyone's equipment is the same. But assuming you have capable equipment (we are on an er4 thread I guess) there are some pretty good tests out there.
 

 
I shut my eyes and pressed stop when I could no longer reliably hear the tones that was using my shure sr940. and that is shown in graphs to start dropping off about 16khz. and there's an air filter running in the room but realistically 16khz was much quieter than 10khz for me. I could clearly hear that it was there, but less than half the volume if not more than 10khz.

 

[ClieOS]

  This has probably been talked about in the thread already, but how is treble extension on any of the ER4 versions for you all? Etymotic says there is accurate response up to 16khz, where graphs show there is a steady drop off past that point, but I don't know if that will be noticeable enough to worry about. Can most people hear well and clearly past 16khz anyway?

 
 
The first thing to note is that you probably have misunderstand the different between loudspeaker's and headphone's FR. In loud speaker world, you want the loud speaker's FR to be as flat and possible - but by the time the sound wave travels through air, hits, reflects and refocused by your body and your outer ears, the FR will no longer be flat when it reaches your eardrum - but human hearing has evolved to listen to this 'unflat' FR and interpret it as 'flat' in our brain. With headphone, and especially IEM, we skip most of these steps and pump the sound wave directly onto our eardrum - so if the FR is completely flat like a loud speaker and extends all the way up to 20kHz, you will not actually hear a 'flat' sound but an 'unflat' sound, with recessed mid and boosted upper treble. In other words - you will NOT want to listen to an IEM that is completely flat in FR. What Etymotic has done in the past is that they have taken measurement near the human's ear drum level to identify an ideal FR curve that isn't flat by measurement, but 'flat' by human interpretation, and use that to rate the accuracy score for the IEM their produce.
 
Also, there are other factors to consider - such as individual's hearing ability / hearing lost. So there really isn't one completely perfect FR curve that can apply to everyone. The FR curve Etymotic used is more or less and average curve that will work for most people. But as far as your questions go: Yes, there are people who can listen past 16kHz. However, it is not itself an problem for you to concern about, as if you might lose out on some higher FR with the 16kHz roll off. If your hearing is pretty average and normal, you will hear all the FR that is to listen to.

 

[vapman]

I can still hear above 20khz and still love my Ety IEMs. I only use them when critical listening is necessary as I usually like more bass than the ER4 can put out
 
I recently have been using my ER4B a lot more because it is so invaluable as a mixing tool but I will likely give it a new home soon as the SR has a far more refined sound to me (I traded my XR for an SR after all). It is why Ety does well to continue to market their IEMs to the professional music market. Not saying audiophiles aren't worth targeting, but the audiophiles who know they want Etymotics don't need to be told why flat and highly analytical is good.
 
All this said... I still almost prefer my HF5 to the classic ER4's, but I find the SR/XR to have a smoother sound for sure.

 

[castleofargh]

just to be clear, pretty much everybody can hear or feel 20khz, as long as you push the volume level high enough and your headphone can reproduce the frequency at the desired loudness.
to those who will try doing some fake online hearing test without any form of volume control, the test are intended for a specific loudness or at least for your average listening level. cranking up the volume to try and notice a frequency, first that's cheating, but I know it wouldn't stop many people

. it's also putting your ears and maybe your IEM in danger, as you could potentially reach dangerous levels without being aware of it. so of course I suggest to stick to normal average comfortable loudness.
 
 20khz for youngsters that's usually no sweat. for adults it's another matter. because we grow old, and because we had such a depraved youth full of loud parties and concerts and guns and lawn mower and mostly parties, with sometimes parties.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

  I can still hear above 20khz 

 
unlikely!