[Redcarmoose]

I would say the whole industry is moving to more bass. Or it’s now acceptable to have V shape signatures recognized as audiophile quality. 10 years ago there may have been a different idea as to what an audiophile headphone could be? But it’s funny how we slowly migrate off to another signature. The whole ignorance is bliss thing is so true in audio.

Most of the time we don’t recognize how far we have gone in one direction till we listen to an old favorite headphone. At that point it becomes startling that we could be content with the sound signature which we used to hear as perfect?

And the wonder is about how can a person even like a signature which is slanted to one degree off neutral? The answer is that maybe these new heavy bass IEMs do it with tactical prowess.

Personal stereo has always been all over the road, you could hear someone’s rig with a ton of bass or someone else’s rig which was flat.

I would guess technology and the acceptance of more bass is causing the change in choices? It’s also a profit margin loophole, it’s like they can charge the price of a used car because the IEM has bass technology.

 

[Redcarmoose]

It will interesting to hear your idea of the Atlas! It’s so different.

 

[Rayzilla]

I would say the whole industry is moving to more bass. Or it’s now acceptable to have V shape signatures recognized as audiophile quality. 10 years ago there may have been a different idea as to what an audiophile headphone could be? But it’s funny how we slowly migrate off to another signature. The whole ignorance is bliss thing is so true in audio.

Most of the time we don’t recognize how far we have gone in one direction till we listen to an old favorite headphone. At that point it becomes startling that we could be content with the sound signature which we used to hear as perfect?
....
I would guess technology and the acceptance of more bass is causing the change in choices? It’s also a profit margin loophole, it’s like they can charge the price of a used car because the IEM has bass technology.

You might be right in your first paragraph. Tastes change and it's new generations that grew up in a different environment and interests. But in addition to that, I think it might also be that the growth of this industry has expanded to include the "I'm not an audiophile but I do appreciate better quality headphones/earphones and I 'demand' HPs/IEMs that suit my tastes". So the manufacturers have an opportunity to widen their market and increase their sales. And this attracts more manufacturers, some of them focusing on niche (sound) markets. Ok, enough of that. lol

Your second paragraph is bang on. I don't think I can go back and listen to some of my earlier HP purchases. Part of this is because of poorer quality but part of it is also changes in my own tastes and preferences.

 

[Quasimodosbelfry]

You're in Singapore, right? A BKK meet is just the excuse I need to get out there. I'm all in if I can get approval but I'm not sure what the chances of that are..

I just keep coming up with new audio things I want to buy... It's a real problem. lol

I'm definitely keen. Pick a weekend and let's give ourselves some time to arrange this.

Speaking of your Sony daps, that is now another venture that I have just started considering and I will get to that on a separate post later because I would like everyone's little thoughts on it.

And what do you mean by venture? like some kind of business?

 

[Rayzilla]

It will interesting to hear your idea of the Atlas! It’s so different.

Ok, a little pressure to express what I think about the Atlas and hope that I do not sound like a fool or a person with bad ears. I haven't really read too much of what has been written about this IEM. Overall I like them quite a lot. I would seriously consider if not for two things. At the top is that I have two IEMs that I am really enjoying more and more as I continue listening to them since I got them about a month ago, in the Intime Go and Sora. They really address many of the characteristics that make me smile. So now I really want to try a pair of custom IEM. The other reason is that the price, at least here in Hong Kong, is a little over over my budget. Otherwise I would have to start trying more IEMs in that price range.

But one major problem I had with it was the fit/comfort. I think it is meant to be worn hanging straight down instead of around the ear. At least to me, it sounded better that way. I found that when wearing it this way, it didn't feel secure, that it would/could fall out at any time. Maybe it's the way my ear canal is too, or the tips were not big enough? I'm not sure.

Sound wise, it hit on a lot of the aspects that I seek. It had very good bass and sub bass but it also had a lot of everything, which is what I like. For some reason, it didn't come out clear or cohesive? I'm not sure how to describe it but it just seemed a little loose. I didn't really give it a serious long listen mainly because the non-custom and the fit issues mentioned above kind of turned me off early on from giving it serious thought.

The above probably doesn't make a lot of sense. I could probably give it another listen if I can find the time but now I have a new problem that I will explain in my next post.

 

[Rayzilla]

So now in addition to searching for a custom IEM, I am not thinking about getting myself a used or if new, entry level DAP. I really don't know much at all about DAPs and how they are used because I've been quite content with using my phone as the source/transport and always carrying around my Black Label or Hugo when on the go or using my iMac with my desktop set up. I just started reading up on some of them today.

I am now looking into a dap but there are a few things it needs to be able to do and I want to start a new thread in the Portable Source section to ask for assistance and ideas but I think I'm not supposed to do that in that forum and instead, use the Recommendations forum. But I'm not sure if that forum gets enough traffic/replies.

So where should I start a thread similar to this with what I want in a DAP and such? Or should I just add it to this thread? Ok. I'll check back here tomorrow...

 

[Redcarmoose]

Ok, a little pressure to express what I think about the Atlas and hope that I do not sound like a fool or a person with bad ears. I haven't really read too much of what has been written about this IEM. Overall I like them quite a lot. I would seriously consider if not for two things. At the top is that I have two IEMs that I am really enjoying more and more as I continue listening to them since I got them about a month ago, in the Intime Go and Sora. They really address many of the characteristics that make me smile. So now I really want to try a pair of custom IEM. The other reason is that the price, at least here in Hong Kong, is a little over over my budget. Otherwise I would have to start trying more IEMs in that price range.

But one major problem I had with it was the fit/comfort. I think it is meant to be worn hanging straight down instead of around the ear. At least to me, it sounded better that way. I found that when wearing it this way, it didn't feel secure, that it would/could fall out at any time. Maybe it's the way my ear canal is too, or the tips were not big enough? I'm not sure.

Sound wise, it hit on a lot of the aspects that I seek. It had very good bass and sub bass but it also had a lot of everything, which is what I like. For some reason, it didn't come out clear or cohesive? I'm not sure how to describe it but it just seemed a little loose. I didn't really give it a serious long listen mainly because the non-custom and the fit issues mentioned above kind of turned me off early on from giving it serious thought.

The above probably doesn't make a lot of sense. I could probably give it another listen if I can find the time but now I have a new problem that I will explain in my next post.

Your take on them makes perfect sense, to me anyway. It’s not addressing your issue of wanting customs. And......if they don’t fit then they don’t fit. Maybe the smallness of them meant they may fall out? My fit was great. Though I need to spend more time with them, also use them in the intended set-up, to try and ascertain the final sound. But they almost sound like a hyper assault that may be difficult to live with on a day to day basis, like they are not relaxed enough. But....the bass was exciting!

 

[Redcarmoose]

So now in addition to searching for a custom IEM, I am not thinking about getting myself a used or if new, entry level DAP. I really don't know much at all about DAPs and how they are used because I've been quite content with using my phone as the source/transport and always carrying around my Black Label or Hugo when on the go or using my iMac with my desktop set up. I just started reading up on some of them today.

I am now looking into a dap but there are a few things it needs to be able to do and I want to start a new thread in the Portable Source section to ask for assistance and ideas but I think I'm not supposed to do that in that forum and instead, use the Recommendations forum. But I'm not sure if that forum gets enough traffic/replies.

So where should I start a thread similar to this with what I want in a DAP and such? Or should I just add it to this thread? Ok. I'll check back here tomorrow...

You can easily just amended the title to include DAP questions. That way the two products could be combined as answers.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Another available avenue is the qdc Anole V3.



http://musicen.qdc.com/Product/36.html

I just picked up two sets of it in universal. But they offer customs. Also it’s the most bass I have ever heard from a BA arrangement. The configuration is three BAs with an adjustable crossover.

$899 Singapore dollars for the custom.
https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/qdc

I had them set for maximum bass for a week, but now listen in standard mode as they are still V shape. I never get tired of listening to them?

 

[Wiljen]

I put my build journal up in the lounge for the Eartechs that details every step. I got really lucky and they let me shadow while they built mine.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-a-custom-in-ear-monitor-is-made-photo-journal.885128/

 

[Rayzilla]

You can easily just amended the title to include DAP questions. That way the two products could be combined as answers.

Great idea RCM! I'm going to make a post of what I learned in the last 24 hours and some of the features that I 'think' are important to me. But I am sure there are many more things I need to consider because I wouldn't know how to use a dap right now. I've been so content with using a phone for the convenience factor mainly. And the other main reason is that I figured there should be NO difference at all if I were to connect either the phone or the dap to one of my portable dac/amps, but I guess if I chose not to carry the dac/amp from time to time that I can simplify my music listening to the dap and keep it in my bag while I use my phone. Would there be a difference in the sound at all?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Great idea RCM! I'm going to make a post of what I learned in the last 24 hours and some of the features that I 'think' are important to me. But I am sure there are many more things I need to consider because I wouldn't know how to use a dap right now. I've been so content with using a phone for the convenience factor mainly. And the other main reason is that I figured there should be NO difference at all if I were to connect either the phone or the dap to one of my portable dac/amps, but I guess if I chose not to carry the dac/amp from time to time that I can simplify my music listening to the dap and keep it in my bag while I use my phone. Would there be a difference in the sound at all?

Well you know how audiophiles are? They think they can hear improvements or alterations with almost anything changed. But some may think of sound changes being turned different from using a DAC/amp/phone or a DAP.

Basically I believe everything sounds different. And.........it’s funny when your not impressed by some flagship DAPs. Or value stuff that you read about here with 750 pages of hype; that then sounds meh, in real life.

I’ve been so bewildered at times that I make journeys to the store again, just to double check that someone didn’t set the tone controls crazy.

But it’s a personal thing. I would be very happy listening from my phone. But......the DAP configurations with the right IEMs can bring about another 10% increase in quality. If your a cable believer and an aftermarket cable changes the sound slighly to your liking, then you get an improvement there. In the end it all adds up. But at times the improvements can be minimal for money spent or simply become side movements changing an aspect of the signature.

I don’t have that much equipment but I can only imagine the freedom some here have, especially high profile reviewers who contain stacks of gear. The freedom they have is to mix and match and do things with DAPs and IEMs in synergy to get a desired tailored sound.

 

[Rayzilla]

RCM, thanks for the suggestion on the qdc Anole V3. The shop never suggested this to me and I am afraid that there could be many more possibilities, which is why I am glad that you guys are making some suggestions for me. I will try this when I next go to the shop.

My itch is super strong right now. I am now also considering getting a used (middle tier) or new (entry level) DAP. This is the new 'venture' that I mentioned earlier. Q, maybe if I had the time and resources I could go into some kind of business venture in the audio world.

DAP Search Begins Here:

I'm not sure where to start because I know so little about them and how they function and capabilities.

Here are some of the things that are important to me with regards to a DAP:

Be able to Download Music and Store on DAP or SD Card slot
I think my main concern with getting a dap was the ability to play the kind of music that I listen to. As mentioned in my OP, "Lately I have been listening to a lot of Diplo and Friends (and no friends) stuff on Global-Sets.com. Sometimes it will be rap flavoured, techno, and a mix of other styles." so most of my listening comes from these DJ websites that allow you to download their music. On my phone, it is easy to do because all I need to do is go to the website and click the download button. It stores the music in ZippyShare, which then downloads directly in my phone and then all I need to do is open the file in my player, which has been the Hiby player lately. Will I be able to download music from these types of website on a DAP? I am afraid of needing to use the phone to download onto the SD card and then transfer the SD card into the DAP because in the past, I found that the SD card becomes unusable on another device when I had files in my Samsung and BlackBerry Android phones.

Touchscreen and Easy to Use
I'm not sure if I need it to be Android based. As long as it is easy to use.

Battery Life
Minimum of a day's worth of listening, minimum of 6-7 hours.

Price
I would like to keep it below $650 but if something is highly recommended for a little more, I can stretch it.

Not too picky about:
Size
Balanced (unless I am told that I am being a fool not going that route but then I would need to change all my cables on my HPs and IEMs)

I'll add to the above as I learn more about them.

Just from my day's worth of reading and suggestions from my friends I am thinking about:
1) Astell&Kern AK70 MKII
2) Sony NW-ZX300
3) Pioneer XDP-300R

I appreciate any help I can get from you guys here. Please let me know if you any questions.

 

[Redcarmoose]

HI’m sure you can find the qdc Anole V3 in Hong Kong. It’s not super super detailed and even walks the line of maybe being boring but never quite is. I get an insanity good fit with the universal and Sony Hybrid tips, where it takes up to 20 seconds to pry them out of my ears and the isolation is perfect. They sound great out of a phone, but take note there are small switches for different sound settings on each IEM. Adding a DAP will get you a better bass detail response as well as maybe get you better soundstage and detail retrieval. What balanced DAPs like the 4.4mm Sony Pentaconn connection do is put a reversed ground going the opposite channel so the two sides defuse the noise getting you a blacker background. That’s maybe not the best definition, but many think the only difference is that each the right and left channel have their own personal ground. It’s more than that which is creating a darker background. The two noise signals cross out each other.

DAPs I would recommend the Sony 1A. And reading your requirements it is a big world for DAPs out there. Some let you steam music services, where the Sony DAPs are as minimal as you can get. The Sony simply lets you fill micro cards with albums or songs off your computer. Some have purchased big 400GB cards, though I have a collection of cards topping out at 256GB. But remember a player like the Sony 1Z has 256GB, so combined I have 1/2 a terabyte. So Sony does have it’s own desktop PC software for their DAPs but using it can be time consuming to say the least. It works well to rip CDs and get album art and song titles, but most folks simply fill cards with music. With the cards, you have to make a file folder called “Music” then the DAPs will always find the files right off.

If you have been reading about DAPs here for the last 5 years, there has been huge-huge frustration with firmware. Especially low cost DAPs that end up with terminal firmware bugs. These bugs never get totally fixed with update and have added to some frustrating times. I have very little experience with A/K or other DAPs for that matter, but the Sony firmware works pretty good. People only have issues with album art having to be in the correct formats. I did fill up the playlist memory one time where I could not make any more playlists. If you have a big card it can take a couple minutes to scan upon first starting. Other than that it’s been pretty smooth sailing for the Sony community here. Some have purchased Europe-Editions with volume caps, which they had to Rockbox to change their location. Both my players were Japan Tourist Editions with no volume cap.

But the ZX300 or Sony 1A only play music files. In the industry you had 3.5mm single ended, 2.5mm balanced 3.5mm balanced (never used) and Sony introduces the TRRRS 5 pole Pentaconn. The great thing about the Sony environment is you can plug your balanced headphones both into your home desktop or your portable with the same cable.

But the battery life with the Sony DAPs are the longest in the industry now at like 11 hours. Turned on in a drawer not playing mine will even show a full charge if I pick it up after 4 days. So no one is better at battery life. The ZX300 is maybe going to be slighly warmer than the 1A. But mind you if you read the ZX300 thread, there is a special 16GB model of the ZX300 you can get for under $400.

In the end it’s all about synergy. The Z1 is better sounding with the Anole V3 IEMs set on flat mode. On flat mode the midcentric colder 1A is slighly too cold, but sounds perfect with the IEM crossovers set to bass mode.

 

[Rayzilla]

HI’m sure you can find the qdc Anole V3 in Hong Kong. It’s not super super detailed and even walks the line of maybe being boring but never quite is. I get an insanity good fit with the universal and Sony Hybrid tips, where it takes up to 20 seconds to pry them out of my ears and the isolation is perfect. They sound great out of a phone, but take note there are small switches for different sound settings on each IEM. Adding a DAP will get you a better bass detail response as well as maybe get you better soundstage and detail retrieval. What balanced DAPs like the 4.4mm Sony Pentaconn connection do is put a reversed ground going the opposite channel so the two sides defuse the noise getting you a blacker background. That’s maybe not the best definition, but many think the only difference is that each the right and left channel have their own personal ground. It’s more than that which is creating a darker background. The two noise signals cross out each other.

DAPs I would recommend the Sony 1A. And reading your requirements it is a big world for DAPs out there. Some let you steam music services, where the Sony DAPs are as minimal as you can get. The Sony simply lets you fill micro cards with albums or songs off your computer. Some have purchased big 400GB cards, though I have a collection of cards topping out at 256GB. But remember a player like the Sony 1Z has 256GB, so combined I have 1/2 a terabyte. So Sony does have it’s own desktop PC software for their DAPs but using it can be time consuming to say the least. It works well to rip CDs and get album art and song titles, but most folks simply fill cards with music. With the cards, you have to make a file folder called “Music” then the DAPs will always find the files right off.

If you have been reading about DAPs here for the last 5 years, there has been huge-huge frustration with firmware. Especially low cost DAPs that end up with terminal firmware bugs. These bugs never get totally fixed with update and have added to some frustrating times. I have very little experience with A/K or other DAPs for that matter, but the Sony firmware works pretty good. People only have issues with album art having to be in the correct formats. I did fill up the playlist memory one time where I could not make any more playlists. If you have a big card it can take a couple minutes to scan upon first starting. Other than that it’s been pretty smooth sailing for the Sony community here. Some have purchased Europe-Editions with volume caps, which they had to Rockbox to change their location. Both my players were Japan Tourist Editions with no volume cap.

But the ZX300 or Sony 1A only play music files. In the industry you had 3.5mm single ended, 2.5mm balanced 3.5mm balanced (never used) and Sony introduces the TRRRS 5 pole Pentaconn. The great thing about the Sony environment is you can plug your balanced headphones both into your home desktop or your portable with the same cable.

But the battery life with the Sony DAPs are the longest in the industry now at like 11 hours. Turned on in a drawer not playing mine will even show a full charge if I pick it up after 4 days. So no one is better at battery life. The ZX300 is maybe going to be slighly warmer than the 1A. But mind you if you read the ZX300 thread, there is a special 16GB model of the ZX300 you can get for under $400.

In the end it’s all about synergy. The Z1 is better sounding with the Anole V3 IEMs set on flat mode. On flat mode the midcentric colder 1A is slighly too cold, but sounds perfect with the IEM crossovers set to bass mode.

Went for dim sum with the family today and lucky for me, my wife and kids all had plans after lunch so that gave me the green light to go to one of the local HP shops, so that's exactly what I did.

I got to the shop and remembered to try the V3 IEM. I was excited when it was one of the first things that popped into my eyes because it was at my eye level in their window display. So that was the first thing I did. It sounded quite good. The bass was not bad but then I put my Intime Go back on to AB test compare with a focus on the low end. Wow, the Go just keeps surprising and impressing me. It reached so low and deep. But I thought that for BA only IEM, the V3 was not bad. Funny story here. When I got home to update this thread, I reread your post and then remembered that you said "qdc". The IEM that I tried was V3 but it was Vision Ears or something like that. LOL. I know there are many shops here that sell qdc so I will have to give that a another try. I'll update with the pictures I took today when I finish typing this on my computer and go on my phone where the pictures are stored.

Now onto my first experience testing DAPs. The window display had quite a few that caught my eye. The WM-1A was on display at a price 9680 HKD (about $1233 US) but my friend here, J.Mills said I should really try the iBasso DAPs. They did not have the DX200 but they had the DX150, which I just learned today is actually the newer model of the two. The price of the DX150 was almost half of the WM-1A at 4288 HKD (about $545 US). The sound is supposed to be not as good as the DX150 but close. And then another DAP that has really attracted me to it is the Hiby R6, which is a little more than the DX150, priced at 4688 HKD (about $600 US).

I did this testing with my Intime Go. I transferred one of my Diplo mixes to the SD card of my phone and inserted it into the two DAPs and it worked with no problems. So that was a relief, and a big relief too. I know that I will be able to download music into SD cards through my phone and insert them into the DAPs. The DX150 sounded very nice but I will need to spend some more time when I go back there again. The R6 sounded a little light to me at first. A little warm and bass shy. But then I realized that was because I didn't fit the Go properly into my ear. My ears are picky and this is one of the key reasons why I really want to try a CIEM. I had to push the Go in my ear harder and when I did that, boy did the R6 come to life. It was very full in sound and the bass was very nice. I played around with it a little because it has quite a bit of features compared to the DX150. I don't really want to comment too much on the comparison now because this was my very first experience with DAPs.

I will try out the Sony ZX300 next time and whatever else you guys recommend I try but to be honest, the Hiby R6 is in the lead right now.