[Sunstealer]

I don't know if this info is of any use to you, but several people here on this forum told us that micro iDSD Signature sounds a bit better than the BL.

I have kept a watch on the Signature thread but can't justify the full cost at the moment. It is my first choice but circumstances dictate otherwise....

 

[iFi audio]

I have kept a watch on the Signature thread but can't justify the full cost at the moment. It is my first choice but circumstances dictate otherwise....

Sure, understood. It's not a night and day between and micro iDSD Signature and BL, so what you have right now is solid nonetheless

 

[Charlie Norwood]

In a scenario where I don't have HPs and only use fairly easy to drive iems, would you suggest the zen can or the zen dac, I already have the BL.

I have just picked up a second hand BL and was wondering about this too. I would be using the BL as the DAC. I use mainly IEMs (Solaris, TRI I3) but also a couple of <100Ohm headphones. I do prefer a balanced output as all of my cables are natively balanced. The power rating out of the ZEN DAC balanced is the same as my Fiio BTR5 - 240mW. I would prefer to have more headroom for future higher resistance headphones. Would the CAN be better for me over the DAC?

I presume I would connect the BL via the unbalanced RCA. I could make a 2.5mm-4.4mm balanced interconnect for the Fiio - that would be a fun project.

The answer for both of you is to get a 6.3 to 2.5 or 4.4 adapter (depending on your cables) and just use the Black Label. "Balanced" doesn't do anything different for your headphones, all it is a different way of wiring an amp to increase power output. Yes there are a bunch of buzzwords out there about crosstalk etc, but it's really not going to make a difference for you beyond the extra power, which you don't need if you have a BL.

So all that being said, the BL with its built-in iematch is going to be better for IEMs than the zen dac or the zen can which can both be noisy with sensitive iems.

 

[Sunstealer]

The answer for both of you is to get a 6.3 to 2.5 or 4.4 adapter (depending on your cables) and just use the Black Label. "Balanced" doesn't do anything different for your headphones, all it is a different way of wiring an amp to increase power output. Yes there are a bunch of buzzwords out there about crosstalk etc, but it's really not going to make a difference for you beyond the extra power, which you don't need if you have a BL.

So all that being said, the BL with its built-in iematch is going to be better for IEMs than the zen dac or the zen can which can both be noisy with sensitive iems.

Thanks for the advice. I have all those adaptors and am slowly working my way through my phone collection, fiddling with settings to get the most comfortable sound. I feel a balanced connection provides a blacker background and lower noise floor. I'll see what the NEO sounds like with single-ended and balanced cables in the Tour.

 

[Charlie Norwood]

Thanks for the advice. I have all those adaptors and am slowly working my way through my phone collection, fiddling with settings to get the most comfortable sound. I feel a balanced connection provides a blacker background and lower noise floor. I'll see what the NEO sounds like with single-ended and balanced cables in the Tour.

There's still so much that goes into background and noise floor though, I believe that balanced might have a higher potential for SE than those, but it really depends and it's not a guarantee. The ifi hip-dac balanced port has a noisy background with any somewhat-sensitive earphones, i don't even use it with mine like nm2+ or IT01s - and those are both single dynamic, I can't imagine how noisy it could be with a sensitive BA set. When matched with the right earphones, the hip-dac is awesome though.

The NEO probably would be my suggestion for a balanced desktop dac/amp for iems - but since I haven't heard it yet there's the possibility it has the above issues as the hip-dac and wouldn't be great for all IEMs.

On my desk right now is a Topping A50s (currently being fed by a SMSL SU-9) but before I had the SU-9 I was using the BL as a dac for it and it was really good - also there's a big difference between the dac sound and the amp sound in the Black Label. The dac sounds very flat, which is great, and is a testament to ifi's quality amp stage.

The A50s is great amp and on balanced has a very low noise floor. I would recommend it in here however, it DOES NOT sound like an ifi amp. It lacks the warmth of the ifi sound, and also doesn't have a bass boost to compensate for any bass-light headphones. But the A50s is extremely clean sounding, has zero distortion even when pushed to insane volume levels, and if you get the right adapters/cables (XLR > RCA), it can accept a balanced output from a dac to maximize its power output.

 

[Sunstealer]

I would prefer a single form factor for my desktop setup and to run from the mains. Maybe the NEO will suffice. Coming from an iBasso DX228EX, I haven't found the BL to be as warm as has been described. It sounds smoother, sure and perhaps more musical than the iBasso but not Fiio BTR5 warm. I agree with the hip-dac, it was noisy through the balanced jack for Noble Encores. I preferred the s-balanced 3.5mm.

I'll keep the BL over Xmas, listen and let the sound settle over me before making any other changes.

 

[iFi audio]

I'll see what the NEO sounds like with single-ended and balanced cables in the Tour.

Sure, we look forward to your findings!

 

[ifiblackG2]

I hope someone can help me out with my setup as I could not get a proper response from support.

I submitted a support case at https://support.ifi-audio.com/ on 9 Jan 2021, received a response on 12 Jan 2021 asking for more information, which I provided on the same day. Another reply came on 14 Jan 2021 which made me furious. It was obvious to me by then that the support staff doesn't read and just assume that I had connected my BL to a pair of IEM when I had already informed right from the day I submitted my support case that my BL is connected via RCA cables to a pair of Active Speakers Yamaha MSP5A after converting into XLR.

Here is my support case [BL + Active Speakers + TiDal MQA = volume issue #880399] message sent on 9 Jan 2021:

Hi, for sure, my BL is out of warranty and I don't have the receipt with me anymore. So I just indicated as 01/01/2017.

I registered an account at the forum just now, but cannot reply to this thread (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...age-147-release-info-page-153.711217/page-247), thus I decided to submit a case instead.

I have the ifi BL which I used with a pair of desktop active monitors for around two years. The ifi BL was connected to a Windows computer using the iFi Gemini II.
A couple of months back, when I was searching to get a smaller portable DAC, I came across MQA tracks available from Tidal and I eventually bought the iFi Hip Dac which supports it. I've been happy using it with my Samsung Note 5 Ultra 5G with my IEM.
Then I realised the iFi BL also supports MQA, so I downloaded the Tidal app on my Windows computer. So found out that I should be enabling the Use Exclusive Mode in the Tidal app to use be able to listen any MQA tracks to its full potential.
I had changed my Active speakers to the Yamaha MSP5A, and my iFi BL was set to Direct, and connected via its RCA plugs to the Yamaha MSP5A XLR input. I had to convert the other end of the RCA to XLR. The volume on the MSP5A was set to around 1/3. Windows master volume is probably 50% or about there. When I use this setting, it works fine for listening to Radio stations via browser and also when using Zoom.
When I introduced Tidal and MQA into the above setup, with Use Exclusive Mode enabled in the Tidal app, the volume was super super loud. So loud that I could feel the air blown from the MSP5A at me. I quickly stop the playback on the Tidal app. I finally disabled the Exclusive Mode.
Then read about the Audirvana Windows app, and downloaded the trial today. I signed in to Tidal, and set to Master. With the same setup above, volume was again too loud.
After testing both Direct and Pre-amp, I found that Pre-amp setting doesn't work for me. The volume was too low and sound horrible. My guess is that I need another device (maybe amp or power amp after the iFi BL) to use this setting. So I had to use the Direct setting and I left Master setting in Audirvana Tidal streaming setting. My MSP5A had to be set to the lowest level. Sound was okay but sometimes sound a bit soft. When I increase to next step on the volume knob, in some instance, it is too loud if my family members are at home. And with this setting, I realised that in Windows Sound Mixer Options, I had to set the Master volume to at least 80% for the system notification sound to be heard, at not very loud level. I have not tested with Zoom.
I noticed that if I use the Direct setting on the iFi Black, my Windows and iFi Volume have no control.If I use Pre-amp, the Volume control on iFi knob and MSP5A have to be 50% or more, but even so, the sound is terrible. Windows Master Volume have no control of the sound.


Here is the response from iFi on 12 Jan 2021:
Hi xxx,


Thank you for your email regarding your nano iDSD BL.

The pre-amp mode is when you have an amplifier and want to control the volume through the amplifier. In your case, you need to use 'Direct'. Are you connecting the nano to your device via USB?

Thank you for your cooperation and if you have anymore questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,

yyy


Here was my reply and question on 12 Jan 2021:
Hi yyy,

My BL is connected to my computer via USB. It is set to Direct. The BL RCA port is connected to Yamaha MSP5A XLR inputs.

As mentioned, when I introduced Tidal and MQA into the above setup, with Use Exclusive Mode enabled in the Tidal app, the volume was super super loud. So loud that I could feel the air blown from the MSP5A at me. I quickly stop the playback on the Tidal app. I finally disabled the Exclusive Mode.

Then I read about the Audirvana Windows app, and downloaded the trial today. I signed in to Tidal, and set to Master. With the same setup above, volume was again too loud.

What should I do to correct the situation?

Regards

xxx


Here is the next reply from iFi on 14 Jan 2021:
Hi xxx,

This is normal. You need to control the volume from the unit. If it still too loud, you might have sensitive headphones, you will need to use the built-in IEMatch.

Thank you,

zzz


Here is my reply to zzz on 16 Jan 2021:
Hi zzz,


I wonder how you both work? Do you read the information I had provided in my first message requesting for help?

I had mentioned that my BL is connected via RCA cables to a pair of Active Speakers Yamaha MSP5A after converting into XLR. How can you tell me that I have sensitive headphones?



This is totally ridiculous!


Regards

yyy

 

[iFi audio]

I noticed that if I use the Direct setting on the iFi Black, my Windows and iFi Volume have no control.If I use Pre-amp, the Volume control on iFi knob and MSP5A have to be 50% or more, but even so, the sound is terrible. Windows Master Volume have no control of the sound.

I'll investigate your support ticket shortly. But in the meantime, iDSD BL's direct mode bypasses its volume control by design. If set like so, iDSD BL works only as a DAC. The way I see this, iDSD BL should have its line outputs set to direct (to bypass its volume control) and you should regulate volume on your Yamaha monitors plus I'd probably set vol level in Windows to 100% to avoid any sound degradation. I wouldn't use XLR inputs considering iDSD BL's line outs are RCAs and your speakers have SE inputs from what I see.

 

[ifiblackG2]

I'll investigate your support ticket shortly. But in the meantime, iDSD BL's direct mode bypasses its volume control by design. If set like so, iDSD BL works only as a DAC. The way I see this, iDSD BL should have its line outputs set to direct (to bypass its volume control) and you should regulate volume on your Yamaha monitors plus I'd probably set vol level in Windows to 100% to avoid any sound degradation. I wouldn't use XLR inputs considering iDSD BL's line outs are RCAs and your speakers have SE inputs from what I see.

Thanks for your response.

The Yamaha MSP5A monitors have two inputs. As extracted from their manual, the XLR-type jack used to connect a balanced and a monaural phone jack used to connect an unbalanced line output. I've attached the owner's manual in the post for your reference.

I did some search on SE inputs (Single Ended).

iFi BL:
RCA is SE right?
This is not balanced right?


Yamaha MSP5A monitors:
XLR-type jack used to connect a balanced - this is for balanced as per manual

A monaural phone jack used to connect an unbalanced line output - which I am using now, is for unbalanced

Question:
So you suggest that I should use continue to use the RCA (SE and balanced) to connect MSP5A XLR-type (balanced)?
I'm ready to proceed as suggested, but could you explain to me what is the difference between what I am doing vs what you recommend? I am not unhappy but rather, I really am not familiar with all these and would like to understand more.

Noted on Windows sound level should be set to 100%. So in my current setup vs what you recommended, will it solve my volume control issue which is controlled at the Yamaha MSP5A? To recap, my volume on Yamaha MSP5A is minimum, just 1 click. If I change to 2 clicks, in some cases, it will be too loud.

 

[iFi audio]

RCA is SE right?
This is not balanced right?

Right.

So you suggest that I should use continue to use the RCA (SE and balanced) to connect MSP5A XLR-type (balanced)?

I suggested that you should go from RCA (SE) outputs of your iDSD BL to your Yamaha monitors' SE input, which is not XLR but the other one labeled as Line 2 in the MSP5AE manual. You wrote that you "had to convert the other end of the RCA to XLR", so I gathered from this that XLR inputs were somehow involved in your setup.

So in my current setup vs what you recommended, will it solve my volume control issue which is controlled at the Yamaha MSP5A?

If everything is set and connected as I've explained, it should work. If it doesn't, there has to be some issue somewhere.

To recap, my volume on Yamaha MSP5A is minimum, just 1 click. If I change to 2 clicks, in some cases, it will be too loud.

This has me worried. iDSD BL's RCA outputs (set as fixed) send out 2V signal level (theindustry standard), so if you go from 1 to 2 volume clicks on your monitors and it gets too loud, I'd take a closer look whether their volume control is OK. The easiest way to do this would be to connect a different DAC and see whether anything changes or not upon going from 1 to 2 clicks as before. But we should take this to PMs, it will be quicker.

 

[eskamobob1]

I may have upgraded my main source, but it still works admirably as a portable amp.

Couple quick currious questions for the IFI team if they don't mind.

1. Any idea what the direct output stage of the dac is at voltage wise?
2. What is the attenuation for the ie match settings? I swear I found it at one point but now can't find where.

Also, just some input. Yall should bring back the analogue input on the micro idsd line. Both the sig and diablo would have been instant buys on release for me if they could stoll be used as a pure amp like the BL can. I'm sure yalls market research says its an unused feature, but if its easy to do, I know several people that would love it. There are basicaly only 3 options at all on the market for portable high power amp for planars (almost everything is targeted at 300ohm cans alone). The LessFox BX2 Plus, Cayin C9, and the 5 year old Micro BL. Having all the sq benefits of the Diablo and being able to use as a pure amp would be super nice to have as an option

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

I may have upgraded my main source, but it still works admirably as a portable amp.

Couple quick currious questions for the IFI team if they don't mind.

1. Any idea what the direct output stage of the dac is at voltage wise?
2. What is the attenuation for the ie match settings? I swear I found it at one point but now can't find where.

Also, just some input. Yall should bring back the analogue input on the micro idsd line. Both the sig and diablo would have been instant buys on release for me if they could stoll be used as a pure amp like the BL can. I'm sure yalls market research says its an unused feature, but if its easy to do, I know several people that would love it. There are basicaly only 3 options at all on the market for portable high power amp for planars (almost everything is targeted at 300ohm cans alone). The LessFox BX2 Plus, Cayin C9, and the 5 year old Micro BL. Having all the sq benefits of the Diablo and being able to use as a pure amp would be super nice to have as an option

Hey there!

I'll check in on these questions for you tomorrow morning with the team.

Thank you for your feedback on the Micro iDSD line, we appreciate it and are glad you're keeping your black label around as a portable amp!

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

1. Any idea what the direct output stage of the dac is at voltage wise?
2. What is the attenuation for the ie match settings? I swear I found it at one point but now can't find where.

1. For future reference, see last page of User Manual...as it is user-selected - RCA Line out (2V fixed/2V-5V variable)
2. As per iEMatch, -12dB and -24dB

 

[eskamobob1]

1. For future reference, see last page of User Manual...as it is user-selected - RCA Line out (2V fixed/2V-5V variable)
2. As per iEMatch, -12dB and -24dB

tyvm for the info. Swear I checked the manual, but must have just read past it.