iBasso P3 Opamp Rolling Thread *Let the rolling begin!
Nov 6, 2008 at 2:21 AM Post #46 of 122
I couldn't resist trying the AD743 and LMH6655 combo after hearing your comments HiFlight, it works beautifully! As you said, it's pretty warm, but very engaging and sounds more organic. The AD797s in comparisons sounds more analytical and cold, though the details really came through.

Unfortunately, i only have one AD743JN, and my other one is a AD743JNZ. Will the mixing cause any problems?
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 3:20 AM Post #47 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmoses /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I couldn't resist trying the AD743 and LMH6655 combo after hearing your comments HiFlight, it works beautifully! As you said, it's pretty warm, but very engaging and sounds more organic. The AD797s in comparisons sounds more analytical and cold, though the details really came through.

Unfortunately, i only have one AD743JN, and my other one is a AD743JNZ. Will the mixing cause any problems?



They will mix just fine. No functional differences at all between the 2.
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 8:15 AM Post #48 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmoses /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I couldn't resist trying the AD743 and LMH6655 combo after hearing your comments HiFlight, it works beautifully! As you said, it's pretty warm, but very engaging and sounds more organic. The AD797s in comparisons sounds more analytical and cold, though the details really came through.

Unfortunately, i only have one AD743JN, and my other one is a AD743JNZ. Will the mixing cause any problems?



So do you mean by using the AD797, you were able to hear more details? I was always wondering what the term "warm" meant, I always assumed it was smooth, and cold meant somewhat of a rougher/more treble sound. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM Post #49 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by berniebennybernard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So do you mean by using the AD797, you were able to hear more details? I was always wondering what the term "warm" meant, I always assumed it was smooth, and cold meant somewhat of a rougher/more treble sound. Please correct me if I am wrong.


When I refer to "warm" I mean it has a full, liquid sort of sound. Maybe a little richer bass, not necessarily more bass. This is unrelated to detail. An amp or phones can sound "warm" while still having lots of detail...ie: Sennheiser HD650.
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 6:24 PM Post #50 of 122
I continue to receive PMs and emails regarding my method of testing and selection of opamps, and the criteria that I use, so I will again explain the process that I use:

I first check the opamp datasheet for several specs- squarewave response, especially looking for peaking due to capacitances which can result in harsh or sibilant highs. I also check for slew rate, which is a measure of the "speed" of the opamp. Important for good transient response.

I then check for THD, voltage and current noise, and whether or not they are unity-gain stable and quiescent current draw.

If all these specs look promising, I then try them in a particular amp, using several known musical sources, interconnects, player, and phones. Several types of phones are always tried, both high and low impedance and high and low sensitivity.

In theory, all opamps suitable for our use should sound the same, as the audio bandwidth is a very small part of their total frequency bandwidth, and typically, distortion and noise are below the threshold that the human ear can detect, but we all know that this is not the case.

There are too many interacting factors inherent in the amp circuitry for the "theoretical" perfect opamp to actually sound "perfect" when installed in the amp, so it is a trial and error game to find that elusive sound quality that resembles a live performance. As an example, the LME49720 has about as close to perfect specs as one can find, yet many find the amp "overly analytical", "cold", "sterile", "tiring". So much for choosing by specifications alone!

It is important to mention here that NONE of the combinations I have tried sound really bad! I am simply evaluating them according to my tastes and preferences. I look for a weighty impact of fundamental bass, without smearing; for this, I use some recordings that include peals of thunder, recorded live. This is extremely hard for an amp (and phones) to reproduce in a lifelike manner. A sense of air around each voice or instrument is very important for good imaging, and highs that sound realistic, not harsh or sibilant. I listen to recordings that have applause in them, as that it a difficult thing to reproduce in a lifelike manner. Cymbals and snares tones are also a very good measure of transient ability and accurate high frequency reproduction. The voices of female vocalists are also a good measure of midrange ability, along with bassoon, oboe, cello, etc.

All amps are colored to some degree or another, even neutrality is a form of coloration. Very few live performances could be considered as "neutral" due to the surroundings, hall acoustics, etc.

One simply must pick the coloration that sounds best to ones individual tastes. I, myself, prefer the sense of realism that I hear when listening to a live performance while seated some ways back. I cannot ever recall sitting in the middle of the performance stage during a concert, unless, of course, I was performing, so I don't care for this feeling when listening to an amp.

The "perfect" amp will always sound like no amp at all. As they say, simply a straight wire with gain! Of course there will never be that "perfect" amp, but we are getting closer to the mountaintop all the time.

Bottom line is that my suggestions are based on my personal preferences in genre, musical setting, and most of all, that elusive, unmeasurable quality of realism.
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 6:40 PM Post #51 of 122
In the FWIW department, the following excerpt is from a recent email I received from iBasso:
........................................snip...... .......................................
By the way, the P3 has the best specs among our products. The S/N is 109dB, and this is the true specs. Surely, the P3 has the potential to surpass any of our products. We did not do any experiment on the P3 recently. We are busy about the T4 and the development of the D10. We are trying very hard to release the D10 before Christmas.
...................................snip........... ......................................
 
Nov 6, 2008 at 7:25 PM Post #52 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFlight /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In the FWIW department, the following excerpt is from a recent email I received from iBasso:
........................................snip...... .......................................
By the way, the P3 has the best specs among our products. The S/N is 109dB, and this is the true specs. Surely, the P3 has the potential to surpass any of our products. We did not do any experiment on the P3 recently. We are busy about the T4 and the development of the D10. We are trying very hard to release the D10 before Christmas.
...................................snip........... ......................................



I look forward to the D10.

As we all know, it ain't always about the numbers.
 
Nov 9, 2008 at 12:24 AM Post #53 of 122
For anyone with AKG K601 headphone (120 ohm / 101 dB), try following combination with opamps already bundled with P3 Heron:

L/R - NE5534N (single) x2
Buffer - iBasso transistor buffer (single) x2
3/4 - LM6172IM (dual) x1

Take note of difference in placement on socket between single and dual channel opamps in case you have not read manual yet.

Finally I have a decent portable headphone amplifier to drive K601 relatively well with neutral sound to my liking. This combination also work well with portable ATH-ESW9 headphone (42 ohm / 103 dB). Feel free to confirm this combination with your findings.

According to iBasso support, the bundled transistor buffer can be replaced with BUF634 for even higher current output. I suppose NE5532 is dual channel equivalence of NE5534 hence the two NE5534 can be replaced by one NE5532 (not sure what others received from iBasso for bundled opamps).

I have been ignoring bundled opamps so far. Look like these opamps are not bundled with P3 Heron just for marketing gimmick. iBasso indeed has selected them carefully.
 
Nov 17, 2008 at 3:49 PM Post #54 of 122
After another night of rolling, my favourite of the night is the LMH6655 in L/R and THS4032 in ground with bypassed buffers.

I describe the sound as very musical, it caught my attention immediately and demanded me to pay attention to it. Bass is strong and the mids are quite warm, vocals were presented in a very live manner. It also manages to cover up the "weakness" of the source (ipod 5.5g at the moment) nicely compared to using the iBasso D1 as source.

The LT6241 came in a very close second in the ground section. I would have been happy with either one.
 
Nov 25, 2008 at 1:00 PM Post #55 of 122
is it now the time for us to.... caps roll the P3 ?
beyersmile.png
 
Dec 2, 2008 at 2:55 AM Post #56 of 122
I got HiFlights "P3 Topkit" this afternoon. Popped them in and it is unreal how good it sounds! I've tried a variety of phones (Denon D2k w/ MarkL mod, UE5 pro, Klipsch X10, Senn 650, Senn 555, AKG K414p)

I used a variety of music:
One Time - King Crimson
Funk A Hall Licks - Bernie Worrell
Blue Monk - Marcus Roberts
Metamorphosen - R. Strauss
Switchblade 327 - Brian Setzer Orch.

Everything sounds good. Soundstage is wide, very warm & great definition.

For certain types of classical I sometimes like a more analitical sound but for overall flexability this opamp combo sounds awsome.
 
Dec 6, 2008 at 11:57 PM Post #57 of 122
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sound /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I got HiFlights "P3 Topkit" this afternoon. Popped them in and it is unreal how good it sounds! I've tried a variety of phones (Denon D2k w/ MarkL mod, UE5 pro, Klipsch X10, Senn 650, Senn 555, AKG K414p)


I suppose "P3 Topkit" come with following configuration:

L/R - AD743JN (single/DIP8) x2
Buffer - iBasso dummy/bypass adapter (single/DIP8) x2
3/4 - LMH6655MA (dual/SOIC8) x1
Gain - 10 dB (high)

I like the exceptional clarity and detail of high frequency response as well as the soundstage. It can drive sensitive IEM (V-Modal Vibe at 2/10 volume level) and hard-to-drive full-size can (AKG K701 at 5/10 volume level) equally well when tested with 3G iPod nano and alloy LOD interconnect.

Transistor buffer is not needed to drive the AKG K701. Other opamp combinations require volume level to be set near maximum most of the time. With IEM, hissing can be head when volume is set beyond 8/10 position, but no one can hear at such high volume with sensitive IEM. No channel imbalance is detected at low volume setting. I suspect low gain setting (3 dB) can be used for sensitive IEM to lower noise floor. Volume adjustment range up to 2/10 level with high gain is too narrow for fine setting anyway.

I notice that if the opamp for 3/4 channel (ground channel) LMH6655MA is swapped for iBasso bundled opamp LM6172IM (dual/SOIC8 x1), bass response become tighter. Though I like deep and impactful bass, but I can't stand slightest loose bass. This change work for me relatively well.

Only shortfall is battery drain is rather high. With above setup (3G nano, AKG K701, 5/10 volume settting) and Sanyo Eneloop AAA 800 mAH rechargable batteries during burn-in, it lasted about 20 hours. Two set of the rechargable batteries are needed in case you are heavy user. Use of akaline batteries is too wastful/polluting and unecessary to me (no matter how cheap they are).
 
Dec 7, 2008 at 12:10 AM Post #58 of 122
If anyone wants, I can sell them my P3 topkit for $40. The only thing is that either me or the buyer will need to exchange the LMH6655 with HiFlight as it is broken.
 
Dec 23, 2008 at 2:41 AM Post #60 of 122
since i couldnt afford the 'Top Kit' yet, for now i'm quite happy with my combo : OPA2604 + Transistor Buff + 3(AD797 stock) , 4 (OPA627)... it gives me very nice impression.... huge soundstage, nice timbre, thick vocal (lively presentation) and detailed high... all come in very nice balance, oh i forgot to mention that i've caps-rolled my P3... for PSU, i now use panasonic [ M ] matsu****a X-pro 3300uf 16v and substitute the red caps with BG NX HiQ 0.1uf
 

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