- Joined
- Oct 14, 2013
- Posts
- 28,353
- Likes
- 32,193
That is the key word
iBasso DX220Max ****************** New FW! 1.01 for download! 1st Page.
- Thread starter Paul - iBasso
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2006
- Posts
- 430
- Likes
- 150
@DarginMahkum I am getting 13.84mbs on my 2.4GHz network. I didn.t do anything special, just connected to the network and ran the speed test.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2013
- Posts
- 28,353
- Likes
- 32,193
Same here, but it seems some people is asking for 3-4x of that ?
ngd3
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Posts
- 365
- Likes
- 250
ThomasHK
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Posts
- 884
- Likes
- 652
If I were moderator here on this forum, I would ask all talk about mods to go in separate threads.
I think it's frankly quite disrespectful to the brands by diluting these threads with big claims about improved audio performance of some amateur mods. It's great that you're having fun with modding, but don't oversell and certainly don't knock the tremendous effort that goes into developing and manufacturing at scale these kind of highly complex products.
I think it's frankly quite disrespectful to the brands by diluting these threads with big claims about improved audio performance of some amateur mods. It's great that you're having fun with modding, but don't oversell and certainly don't knock the tremendous effort that goes into developing and manufacturing at scale these kind of highly complex products.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2013
- Posts
- 28,353
- Likes
- 32,193
No one is selling anything, and no one is claiming about anything. Why the hopping ?
This may help to understand about gang errors on analog volume pots.
http://www.practicaldevices.com/techdocs/Pot_Channel_Matching.pdf
My experience with iBasso and MAX so far has been pretty bad. It looks like the company and the loyal fanboy base has some shady relations. Let me try to explain myself:
I have seen some WIFI issues. I have never said high WIFI performance is a must. I just did this:
- Observed the 2.4GHz performance is not good and 5GHz might need workarounds on the router to function.
- Sent my results and asked if this is also what others are observing
- And asked here and Paul via email more than a week ago (I have sent 4 emails) if this is normal.
- Also mentioned a similar issue I observed somewhere else that there is something called country code for the WIFI interface, and asked (also via email) if they can take a look at that, because it _looked_ to me as if it is like it is set to China.
I got two types of responses:
- Nearly everyone here told me to stop whining and go get a new DAP and I don't understand what I bought - I am not looking to get a new DAP. I am trying to find some answers.
- To my first email Paul just replied 5GHz is faster and 2.4GHz has better range, which is a "by the book" explanation of high frequency signals propagating shorter distances. I sent him 3 other emails and videos explaining my problem is not this, I have a much worse range and performance on 2.4GHz and 5GHz needs tweaks on my router to work, and told him if he can take a look at the country code thing also. This was more than a week ago and he did not reply. He also popped up here, but he preferred to ignore my questions.
Now, this is a pretty bad attitude, both from the users and the company.
The fanbase just wants to get rid of the question by making me tired about it by continuously telling me to go get a new DAP, ignoring that this is not my intention and base evaluation of the product. In fact, I am much more annoyed by the behavior of the fanbase and iBasso than the issue itself.
Another thing was the menu layout. Now, iBasso has been using this software base (and actually the hardware base) since the launch of DX200. Upgrade to 8.1, updates etc., we are where we are today. As I said, I am coming from an electrical engineering background, and writing software professionally for about 20 years, and privately even more than that. I can see the attention that was to the details. When I look at it, I see that they didn't even care to remove items that don't make any sense to the customer and/or adding shortcuts to more beneficial functions. A user here said that he already had a conversation with Paul about it and Paul said that he does not see the need for it.
This is another bad point. It is not what Paul thinks whether it is useful or not, it is the users, and it definitely is not what a few fanboys think. This is nearly a €2000 unit. This is two months of rent for some people, a salary. This is hard earned money. There might be people that are comfortable with whatever they buy, but it is not everybody. You cannot hide behind the mask of "enjoy the music" whenever someone pops up and asks some questions. If you do, this is disrespectful to your customers - just like he did yesterday, popped up here, talked about how good they are and ended with "enjoy the music" and disappeared again. Ignoring anything else.
These are not whinings. Attention to the details is a sign of how much you respect your customers. For example, FiiO has been bashed about several things and especially about the controller they used, although it was the most powerful DAP SoC in the market and could go silent about it. They did not. They tried to explain it so many times and they said they are sorry about it. I have seen several times, the same fanboys here popping up in other companies' product forums, and complaining like "oh, why cannot this product support DSD512, iBasso has been doing it for years". This was not once, was not twice. They might pretty much try to recruit people.
Frankly speaking, if Paul would tell me "sorry, but because we see interference of the 2.4GHz to the audio, so we need to make good shielding to prevent it and we cannot fix it, but for the 5GHz issue, I'll ask my colleagues", and then come up and say "sorry we cannot do anything there, the SoC is hardcoded", I will just say thank you, and not open the subject again. That is pretty much all I wanted to see: A confirmation, and a fix only if possible with my proposal. I would still be a kind of satisfied customer, but maybe a customer with wishes for the next iteration of the product.
But someone had to bring that up. It had to be done in a way that is heard, and I will try to make it heard as much as I can also on other platforms. iBasso has been using pretty much the same software and also nearly the same the hardware (except the amp) platform for at least 3 iterations of the product DX200, 220 and MAX, and the issues I am mentioning, as I understand existed on all of them (there is nothing wrong with using the same base setup for several iterations, A&K did the same thing with SP2000). This is based on the feedback I got from other users. You cannot just say "but we are all about sound quality" and keep saying "enjoy the music" for whatever criticism you receive. You need to stand by your customers as much as you stand by your product. The critics you receive is a way to grow, a way to learn.
I always said, with MAX they did an excellent job in the sound department. But come on, you cannot behave like this and lean on your fanboys (maybe some of which received it for free to "review", I don't know) to kick someone out whenever you receive a critic. Frankly I am shocked that iBasso chose this way to tackle the problem. This is just wrong.
---
For the mods, I explained already several times how it looks like for an outsider. There is nothing wrong with modding and having fun around it. I brought up two points:
- The claims about improving the sound quality by tweaking some ghosts on the software is total BS. I made a brief technical explanation why it is a false claim and scam both last year on DX220 thread and this year here. I can understand that, that person makes something which improves the user experience and speed in general (which I suspect he copy pasted from Lurker's firmware), but the false claims of audio improvement should be tackled, as this person is asking for money, and this is again hard earned money. Might not be much for some but is not the case for many. And I will bring this up whenever a scammer is mentioned.
- Let's talk about the mods on the hardware. Here is my initial post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-83#post-15672230
In my previous post, I tried to explain what an average user might see in this, in several posts. There should be a more eloquent way to go about it. Everyone here talks about the improvements of the sound in 200-300 hours, but when someone comes up and says at the very beginning "well, it is lacking qualities compared to my mod", that becomes a questionable expression both about the company and/or the modder. For any normal customer - company relation where the company is sure about their product and can stand behind it, that is pretty much an insult, especially when the company mentions that this is their more than a year of work with thousand tryouts even _after_ it was tried by the users.
I would definitely cancel my order after reading "Max is behind Dx228ex in fluidity, liquidity and timbres density", if I didn't have the MAX already. Let's not try to search for other meanings behind and overlook the expression itself and stick to this very basic explanation above. It means pretty much what it says here. It didn't end there. The list of claims continued here:
https://www.headpie.net/2020/06/ibasso-dx220max-unveiling.html?m=1
Just search for "Applying EX modifications to the main unit" and read the items. It does not say "a different tuning", it says "much better" for nearly everything. Look at this expression:
"Main AmpMax needs to be tuned for deeper sub-bass and density which is following closely to the EX package with some tweaks to aim toward these goals."
Sorry, this pretty much contradicts everything Paul said yesterday. It does not say a tuning for a different taste, it just says iBasso failed to do it. Or this one:
"LCD touch screen is directly staying on top of the boards with a clearance of approximately 2mm clearance, without shielding in between. Which explains the background which can not be said to be as dark as the DMP or SP2K"
Which again contradicts what Paul said, that they actually measured it and it definitely is not the case. That was actually why I carried it to the forum, as I wished Paul to pop up and comment on a single specific item, which fortunately happened. All those claims would mean one or more these:
- MAX is another balloon
- iBasso and the fanboy community has some tighter relations in the background
- Even in a year of development, iBasso cannot surpass what some hackers achieved in a day of looking.
These are not simple "mod talks". I understand iBasso does not want to distance the loyal supporting base and Paul popped up yesterday to write a few sentences that pretty much says usual expected company bla bla, but the loyal company fanboy base is only a few people maybe 20, there are still 980 units to go and you cannot take these people as just idiots with money that do not know what they are looking at. We do read, and we do evaluate, and we do ask questions, and we do what we want to do.
Anyone telling us to do something else, sell this, buy something else, throw away your money, time...is trying to put us in a position of not being able to judge our own values and expectations. This is what many people and companies try to do, as there is too much possibility of psycho-acoustic influence. Why should it work this way, anyway. I buy something based on the advertisement, I find an issue I and try to ask the company to understand the reason, the company does not care, then I try to sell it with a loss, I leave the group and stop talking about it, and the loss is written to my own pocket as negative, but the company gets away without a scratch. Nope.
Some of you might be OK with this, but for an average user it is not. This can become wasted money, wasted resources. For many people it is not OK to throw away a few hundred €/$, like some of you expect them to do. This is hard earned money. Anything that smells fishy should be questioned. Otherwise there are people out there ready to put their hands in our pocket as we are looking at some false hopes they make the propaganda of.
That is pretty much what I think.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-92#post-15677882
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-95#post-15680709
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-95#post-15681949
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-96#post-15682076
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-97#post-15682996
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-98#post-15683138
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-98#post-15683542
Did you read any of my posts above? Did you see anything like this? None of them was saying that, and I was getting about 2Gbps and 15X of it on 5GHz, and I was trying to understand why. Why do you guys keep bending my words? The gang of people here started telling me to go and get myself another DAP, as I don't know how to use it? Why is that? This is my post from earlier, June 8:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-68#post-15663817
And yet you guys, as soon as I used the words WIFI started telling me things I didn't ask for. Why are you people like this? Why are you people such _insecure_ that you want to kick out anyone just even trying to understand a simple background?
I have seen some WIFI issues. I have never said high WIFI performance is a must. I just did this:
- Observed the 2.4GHz performance is not good and 5GHz might need workarounds on the router to function.
- Sent my results and asked if this is also what others are observing
- And asked here and Paul via email more than a week ago (I have sent 4 emails) if this is normal.
- Also mentioned a similar issue I observed somewhere else that there is something called country code for the WIFI interface, and asked (also via email) if they can take a look at that, because it _looked_ to me as if it is like it is set to China.
I got two types of responses:
- Nearly everyone here told me to stop whining and go get a new DAP and I don't understand what I bought - I am not looking to get a new DAP. I am trying to find some answers.
- To my first email Paul just replied 5GHz is faster and 2.4GHz has better range, which is a "by the book" explanation of high frequency signals propagating shorter distances. I sent him 3 other emails and videos explaining my problem is not this, I have a much worse range and performance on 2.4GHz and 5GHz needs tweaks on my router to work, and told him if he can take a look at the country code thing also. This was more than a week ago and he did not reply. He also popped up here, but he preferred to ignore my questions.
Now, this is a pretty bad attitude, both from the users and the company.
The fanbase just wants to get rid of the question by making me tired about it by continuously telling me to go get a new DAP, ignoring that this is not my intention and base evaluation of the product. In fact, I am much more annoyed by the behavior of the fanbase and iBasso than the issue itself.
Another thing was the menu layout. Now, iBasso has been using this software base (and actually the hardware base) since the launch of DX200. Upgrade to 8.1, updates etc., we are where we are today. As I said, I am coming from an electrical engineering background, and writing software professionally for about 20 years, and privately even more than that. I can see the attention that was to the details. When I look at it, I see that they didn't even care to remove items that don't make any sense to the customer and/or adding shortcuts to more beneficial functions. A user here said that he already had a conversation with Paul about it and Paul said that he does not see the need for it.
This is another bad point. It is not what Paul thinks whether it is useful or not, it is the users, and it definitely is not what a few fanboys think. This is nearly a €2000 unit. This is two months of rent for some people, a salary. This is hard earned money. There might be people that are comfortable with whatever they buy, but it is not everybody. You cannot hide behind the mask of "enjoy the music" whenever someone pops up and asks some questions. If you do, this is disrespectful to your customers - just like he did yesterday, popped up here, talked about how good they are and ended with "enjoy the music" and disappeared again. Ignoring anything else.
These are not whinings. Attention to the details is a sign of how much you respect your customers. For example, FiiO has been bashed about several things and especially about the controller they used, although it was the most powerful DAP SoC in the market and could go silent about it. They did not. They tried to explain it so many times and they said they are sorry about it. I have seen several times, the same fanboys here popping up in other companies' product forums, and complaining like "oh, why cannot this product support DSD512, iBasso has been doing it for years". This was not once, was not twice. They might pretty much try to recruit people.
Frankly speaking, if Paul would tell me "sorry, but because we see interference of the 2.4GHz to the audio, so we need to make good shielding to prevent it and we cannot fix it, but for the 5GHz issue, I'll ask my colleagues", and then come up and say "sorry we cannot do anything there, the SoC is hardcoded", I will just say thank you, and not open the subject again. That is pretty much all I wanted to see: A confirmation, and a fix only if possible with my proposal. I would still be a kind of satisfied customer, but maybe a customer with wishes for the next iteration of the product.
But someone had to bring that up. It had to be done in a way that is heard, and I will try to make it heard as much as I can also on other platforms. iBasso has been using pretty much the same software and also nearly the same the hardware (except the amp) platform for at least 3 iterations of the product DX200, 220 and MAX, and the issues I am mentioning, as I understand existed on all of them (there is nothing wrong with using the same base setup for several iterations, A&K did the same thing with SP2000). This is based on the feedback I got from other users. You cannot just say "but we are all about sound quality" and keep saying "enjoy the music" for whatever criticism you receive. You need to stand by your customers as much as you stand by your product. The critics you receive is a way to grow, a way to learn.
I always said, with MAX they did an excellent job in the sound department. But come on, you cannot behave like this and lean on your fanboys (maybe some of which received it for free to "review", I don't know) to kick someone out whenever you receive a critic. Frankly I am shocked that iBasso chose this way to tackle the problem. This is just wrong.
---
For the mods, I explained already several times how it looks like for an outsider. There is nothing wrong with modding and having fun around it. I brought up two points:
- The claims about improving the sound quality by tweaking some ghosts on the software is total BS. I made a brief technical explanation why it is a false claim and scam both last year on DX220 thread and this year here. I can understand that, that person makes something which improves the user experience and speed in general (which I suspect he copy pasted from Lurker's firmware), but the false claims of audio improvement should be tackled, as this person is asking for money, and this is again hard earned money. Might not be much for some but is not the case for many. And I will bring this up whenever a scammer is mentioned.
- Let's talk about the mods on the hardware. Here is my initial post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-83#post-15672230
In my previous post, I tried to explain what an average user might see in this, in several posts. There should be a more eloquent way to go about it. Everyone here talks about the improvements of the sound in 200-300 hours, but when someone comes up and says at the very beginning "well, it is lacking qualities compared to my mod", that becomes a questionable expression both about the company and/or the modder. For any normal customer - company relation where the company is sure about their product and can stand behind it, that is pretty much an insult, especially when the company mentions that this is their more than a year of work with thousand tryouts even _after_ it was tried by the users.
I would definitely cancel my order after reading "Max is behind Dx228ex in fluidity, liquidity and timbres density", if I didn't have the MAX already. Let's not try to search for other meanings behind and overlook the expression itself and stick to this very basic explanation above. It means pretty much what it says here. It didn't end there. The list of claims continued here:
https://www.headpie.net/2020/06/ibasso-dx220max-unveiling.html?m=1
Just search for "Applying EX modifications to the main unit" and read the items. It does not say "a different tuning", it says "much better" for nearly everything. Look at this expression:
"Main AmpMax needs to be tuned for deeper sub-bass and density which is following closely to the EX package with some tweaks to aim toward these goals."
Sorry, this pretty much contradicts everything Paul said yesterday. It does not say a tuning for a different taste, it just says iBasso failed to do it. Or this one:
"LCD touch screen is directly staying on top of the boards with a clearance of approximately 2mm clearance, without shielding in between. Which explains the background which can not be said to be as dark as the DMP or SP2K"
Which again contradicts what Paul said, that they actually measured it and it definitely is not the case. That was actually why I carried it to the forum, as I wished Paul to pop up and comment on a single specific item, which fortunately happened. All those claims would mean one or more these:
- MAX is another balloon
- iBasso and the fanboy community has some tighter relations in the background
- Even in a year of development, iBasso cannot surpass what some hackers achieved in a day of looking.
These are not simple "mod talks". I understand iBasso does not want to distance the loyal supporting base and Paul popped up yesterday to write a few sentences that pretty much says usual expected company bla bla, but the loyal company fanboy base is only a few people maybe 20, there are still 980 units to go and you cannot take these people as just idiots with money that do not know what they are looking at. We do read, and we do evaluate, and we do ask questions, and we do what we want to do.
Anyone telling us to do something else, sell this, buy something else, throw away your money, time...is trying to put us in a position of not being able to judge our own values and expectations. This is what many people and companies try to do, as there is too much possibility of psycho-acoustic influence. Why should it work this way, anyway. I buy something based on the advertisement, I find an issue I and try to ask the company to understand the reason, the company does not care, then I try to sell it with a loss, I leave the group and stop talking about it, and the loss is written to my own pocket as negative, but the company gets away without a scratch. Nope.
Some of you might be OK with this, but for an average user it is not. This can become wasted money, wasted resources. For many people it is not OK to throw away a few hundred €/$, like some of you expect them to do. This is hard earned money. Anything that smells fishy should be questioned. Otherwise there are people out there ready to put their hands in our pocket as we are looking at some false hopes they make the propaganda of.
That is pretty much what I think.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-92#post-15677882
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-95#post-15680709
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-95#post-15681949
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-96#post-15682076
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-97#post-15682996
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-98#post-15683138
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-98#post-15683542
Did you read any of my posts above? Did you see anything like this? None of them was saying that, and I was getting about 2Gbps and 15X of it on 5GHz, and I was trying to understand why. Why do you guys keep bending my words? The gang of people here started telling me to go and get myself another DAP, as I don't know how to use it? Why is that? This is my post from earlier, June 8:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...und-reproduction.911378/page-68#post-15663817
And yet you guys, as soon as I used the words WIFI started telling me things I didn't ask for. Why are you people like this? Why are you people such _insecure_ that you want to kick out anyone just even trying to understand a simple background?
Last edited:
Infoseeker
Headphoneus Supremus
Number 62 here.
I installed google play and uapp. Uapp recognized my past purchases and I have p-EQ and MQA already unlocked.
Is the playback correct showing 44kHz and Direct 88kHz? (on Bitperfect mode)
Via Tidal app (installed via apkpure) it shows 176.4 kHz.
I need to wait for a cusrom firmware to use bypass the operating system.... Correct?
..
On another note, it takes alot of tweaking of the power output to not get my Ier-z1r to not clip.
Wifi signal in same room as my 4g/wifi modem. Device really likes the 5Ghz band more.
Ibasso 220 max, 5Ghz wifu Fast.net speed test
For comparison Fast.net 5Ghz Wifi on my flagship Android phone.
2.4Ghz wifi Ibasso 220max
Android flagship phone 2.4Ghz off same wifi modem.
I installed google play and uapp. Uapp recognized my past purchases and I have p-EQ and MQA already unlocked.
Is the playback correct showing 44kHz and Direct 88kHz? (on Bitperfect mode)
Via Tidal app (installed via apkpure) it shows 176.4 kHz.
I need to wait for a cusrom firmware to use bypass the operating system.... Correct?
..
On another note, it takes alot of tweaking of the power output to not get my Ier-z1r to not clip.
Wifi signal in same room as my 4g/wifi modem. Device really likes the 5Ghz band more.
Ibasso 220 max, 5Ghz wifu Fast.net speed test
For comparison Fast.net 5Ghz Wifi on my flagship Android phone.
2.4Ghz wifi Ibasso 220max
Android flagship phone 2.4Ghz off same wifi modem.
Last edited:
OVERKILL for Z1R????
How does it sound?
How does it sound?
Number 62 here.
I installed google play and uapp. Uapp recognized my past purchases and I have p-EQ and MQA already unlocked.
Is the playback correct showing 44kHz and Direct 88kHz? (on Bitperfect mode)
Via Tidal app (installed via apkpure) it shows 176.4 kHz.
I need to wait for a cusrom firmware to use bypass the operating system.... Correct?
..
On another note, it takes alot of tweaking of the power output to not get my Ier-z1r to not clip.
Wifi signal in same room as my 4g/wifi modem. Device really likes the 5Ghz band more.
Ibasso 220 max, 5Ghz wifu Fast.net speed test
For comparison Fast.net 5Ghz Wifi on my flagship Android phone.
2.4Ghz wifi Ibasso 220max
Android flagship phone 2.4Ghz off same wifi modem.
ThomasHK
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Posts
- 884
- Likes
- 652
Here we go again
I guess so
No but seriously, I think it's cool what the modding community is doing, but it has to be brought to the table in a tasteful and respectful way. If I was iBasso I would be pretty pissed off by these lavish claims that simply changing some caps or other similarly simple mods makes whatever they've done sound soooo much better. Time and time again this happens and people now start believing because of those claims that iBasso is not designing these products well. Modding a few devices or developing/manufacturing things at scale are completely different things that require very different trade-offs and decisions.
EDIT: and I should add, I've yet to see any objective validation of these mods that shows the changes haven't completely tanked the carefully designed audio performance.
Last edited:
Users who are viewing this thread
