[cybertec69]

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How do I order a HiFlight topkit, thanks.

PM Hiflight

Ok, thanks.
 

 

[zn7726]

First of all, please forgive my poor English. Head-Fi is a wonderful place to ask for (and share) experience and impressions and it has, as far as I know, the most regular ibasso users. I will buy a D6 or P4 very soon (in 1-2 days maybe) and want to get some suggestions here.
 
I know the biggest difference of the two is the quality DAC in D6, but a DAC is not 100% necessary in my case, as I mainly use iPod+LOD although I don't mind having a DAC to listen to music directly from PC (i don't use a laptop). On one hand, if P4, as a pure AMP, is significantly better than the AMP part of D6, i'll choose P4; on the other hand, if SQ out of D6's DAC can significantly outperform the SQ out of iPod's LOD + P4, I'll probably be attempted to try D6.
 
ibasso describes P4 as a "ThreeChannel/ Four Channel compatible architecture" while D6 is "OP+BUF structure for amplification". Does it mean P4's structure is more decent / has bigger potential acting as an AMP?
 
I'll use either of them with a pair of ESW9 or ES10 (using mainly in office) or 300 ohm cans like HD650 in 1-2 year's time. I also quite like D5000 and maybe will get a pair of them instead of HD650. Which one of them (D6 / P4) can do the job better?
 
Your comments and suggestions are appreciated.
 

 

[MrScary]

First of all, please forgive my poor English. Head-Fi is a wonderful place to ask for (and share) experience and impressions and it has, as far as I know, the most regular ibasso users. I will buy a D6 or P4 very soon (in 1-2 days maybe) and want to get some suggestions here.
 
I know the biggest difference of the two is the quality DAC in D6, but a DAC is not 100% necessary in my case, as I mainly use iPod+LOD although I don't mind having a DAC to listen to music directly from PC (i don't use a laptop). On one hand, if P4, as a pure AMP, is significantly better than the AMP part of D6, i'll choose P4; on the other hand, if SQ out of D6's DAC can significantly outperform the SQ out of iPod's LOD + P4, I'll probably be attempted to try D6.
 
ibasso describes P4 as a "ThreeChannel/ Four Channel compatible architecture" while D6 is "OP+BUF structure for amplification". Does it mean P4's structure is more decent / has bigger potential acting as an AMP?
 
I'll use either of them with a pair of ESW9 or ES10 (using mainly in office) or 300 ohm cans like HD650 in 1-2 year's time. I also quite like D5000 and maybe will get a pair of them instead of HD650. Which one of them (D6 / P4) can do the job better?
 
Your comments and suggestions are appreciated.
 

The D6 has more power 650ma

 

[HiFlight]

Both the D6 and P4 have excellent amplifier sections, with the P4 having a slightly higher headroom, due to the higher supply voltage.  Given the optimum choice of opamps, probably the ultimate choice as far as amplifier would favor the P4, as the ground possibilities provide more configuration options.  You can also configure the P4 with the OP+BUF mode similar to that of the D6.  
 
I believe that the D6 DAC will significantly outperform the ipod internal DAC, although I have not owned an ipod and cannot directly compare the two.  The D6 DAC can hold its own against many desktop DACs, and is a superb performer.  
 
To sum it up:
 
If you do envision using the D6 with your computer to listen to CD's or streaming music, the D6 would make a very good choice.  Being able to use the D6 as a standalone DAC without requiring the use of the internal battery also makes it a good choice for use with other system components, serving as a worthy substitute for a desktop DAC.
 
If, however, you feel that you can do without a built-in DAC, and only need a top-quality portable amplifier, the P4 is the logical choice.
 
 

 

[estreeter]

Somwhere in the P4 thread, someone indicated that were going to try D12 into P4 as a 'mini-component' system, but I didnt hear any more from them. It would be an intereresting exercise IMO.

 

[HiFlight]

I can try that.  Will run the optical out from my H120 or Squeezbox to the D12, then from the D12 Aux out to the input of my P4.   Should be interesting.   Will report back shortly!
 
 

 

[estreeter]

Good stuff - surprised you havent given it a shot already, Ron !

 

[HiFlight]

Well, it worked well until my battery quit in my P4!    I tried both the Squeezebox streaming music via optical out > D12 > P4   as well as substituting my H120 optical output in place of the Squeezebox. 
 
The P4 was loaded with a Topkit consisting of a Class A ISL55002 L/R, HA5002 buffers and THS4032 in center ground.   Headphones were Sony F1 and HE-6.   Sound was excellent through both. 
 
Can this make a decent "Mini-component" set?   Yes, no doubt about that.   To further evaluate and compare to some of my other desktop amps, I will have to wait for a recharge and play with this some more.   I can say that the P4 does do a respectable job of driving my HE-6.  This was the first time I tried them with the P4. 
 
I am convinced that the ground channel plays a very important role in both the SQ and power output of the P4.  If an opamp is used, it must be able handle the ground returns of everything upstream, hence it needs a very good output current capability. 
 
 
 
 

 

[estreeter]

Sensational - I look forward to more impressions, Ron.
 
This wouldnt be an inexpensive mini-system, granted, but for a single-ended setup it holds a lot of promise.

 

[zn7726]

Thanks HiFlight for your comments!
 
In your earlier reply, it seemed D6 is a better choice as it's quality built-in DAC and P4 is just a logical choice if DAC is not necessary. However, later on you said
 
Quote:

I am convinced that the ground channel plays a very important role in both the SQ and power output of the P4.  If an opamp is used, it must be able handle the ground returns of everything upstream, hence it needs a very good output current capability. 

I don't quite understand the terms in it but it sounds like P4 is (much) more decent as an Amp because of it's different structure? 
 
The only concern of D6's DAC is it only works with USB input, which limits its usage to PC only. D12 is a better choice because of the multiple input that the DAC can accept. Maybe P4 is a better choice for me? I can always upgrade my iPod to some other players that have better built-in DAC (COWON or yet-to-come Fiio X3)?
 
 

 

[estreeter]

zn, the D12 into P4 solution will give you more options all round, albeit for more money upfront than the D6. This might seem crazy, but the asking price of the D12 is not a whole lot more than I paid for my dedicated DAC (MSII, limited to USB from a computer, while the D12 can be connected to a variety of transports), and you have the upside of a backup amp if you want to loan the P4 to a friend.

 

[zn7726]

Thanks estreeter!
 
You are absolutely right! Comparing with what D6 offers, D12 gives you a more complete DAC function (same SQ but better options) while P4 gives you a better Amp. D6 is a combination of both but with compromise. 
 
Now the questions changed to: are there many portable player that have optical output to bypass their internal DACs (will I really benefit from the extra input options although I hardly need them) and how powerful D12's output is (do I really need the extra power that D6/P4 offers). Can anybody give me a head-up of any portable mp3 players that offer optical output, as well as the output power of D12 (cannot find it in ibasso's website)?
 
Thanks.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Thanks estreeter!
 
You are absolutely right! Comparing with what D6 offers, D12 gives you a more complete DAC function (same SQ but better options) while P4 gives you a better Amp. D6 is a combination of both but with compromise. 
 
Now the questions changed to: are there many portable player that have optical output to bypass their internal DACs (will I really benefit from the extra input options although I hardly need them) and how powerful D12's output is (do I really need the extra power that D6/P4 offers). Can anybody give me a head-up of any portable mp3 players that offer optical output, as well as the output power of D12 (cannot find it in ibasso's website)?
 
Thanks.

Short of the boutique offerings from folk like HiFiMan and Colorfly, I dont think any of the mainstream DAPs currently offer optical out - Ron has an older player that does it, but I believe its been several years since they were offered. My own preference, while neither portable nor particularly versatile, would be the QLS-QA350, but that particular device is not going to make a lot in this forum very happy.
 

 

[latenlazy]

This caught my attention. Have you tried running the HE-6 with the D6 yet? Do you think it might provide enough power for the LCD2s or the HE-500s, knowing that they're less power hungry than the HE-6s.
 
Quote:

Can this make a decent "Mini-component" set?   Yes, no doubt about that.   To further evaluate and compare to some of my other desktop amps, I will have to wait for a recharge and play with this some more.   I can say that the P4 does do a respectable job of driving my HE-6.  This was the first time I tried them with the P4. 
 
 
 
 

 

 

[HiFlight]

Thanks estreeter!
 
You are absolutely right! Comparing with what D6 offers, D12 gives you a more complete DAC function (same SQ but better options) while P4 gives you a better Amp. D6 is a combination of both but with compromise. 
 
Now the questions changed to: are there many portable player that have optical output to bypass their internal DACs (will I really benefit from the extra input options although I hardly need them) and how powerful D12's output is (do I really need the extra power that D6/P4 offers). Can anybody give me a head-up of any portable mp3 players that offer optical output, as well as the output power of D12 (cannot find it in ibasso's website)?
 
Thanks.

The iRiver H120 is currently the only portable DAP that I know of that offers an optical out. While discontinued several years ago,it is still one of the best when rockboxed. They are still readily available on various for-sale forums and often show up here on the FS portable source forum.

It is possible to add larger drives and other mods. I have yet to find a more versatle DAP.