I saw this graph and couldn't stop laughing. Hi-Fi Sony fo' sho'!
Mar 14, 2011 at 7:51 PM Post #16 of 43
I've never heard an accusation of this kind, and I've seen many veteran members use their graphs (although that might be out of lack of alternative), however they post my SRH750s as something of close to the XB series when it comes to bass, which I really don't think it is. It's the only example I can think of.
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 8:41 PM Post #17 of 43
Amazon reviews are so rediculous.  It doesn't matter how crappy the product is, people come along and give it 5 star reviews and say it's the best thing ever.  In one of those 5 star reviews, the guy says he's heard STAX before...
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 8:45 PM Post #18 of 43
Quote:
Headroom's FR graphs are often not reliable? Really? I'm not challenging the idea. Just surprised at the idea that they may not be accurate. I almost wonder if that could get them into legal trouble.

Headroom has had FR graphs up for a lot of headphones for a very long time. I don't see them getting sued or whatever. Headroom's graphs are reliable IMO.
 
 
 
Mar 14, 2011 at 9:33 PM Post #19 of 43


Quote:
Amazon reviews are so rediculous.  It doesn't matter how crappy the product is, people come along and give it 5 star reviews and say it's the best thing ever.  In one of those 5 star reviews, the guy says he's heard STAX before...


I know right? There are some weird people out there writting these Amazon reviews lol.
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 6:09 AM Post #20 of 43
Be careful not to confuse "accurate" with "reliable" and neither of those is the same as "valid".

I trust the Headroom graphs to be reasonably accurate. I don't think they make any significant errors in measuring or presenting their results, although they're only human and I suppose one graph here or there could occasionally turn out just plain wrong. They'd probably catch it eventually, though.

They do everything possible to make them "reliable" but that's a real bugaboo with headphone testing. Because of the whole thing about interacting with the test "head" it's actually darned hard to get perfectly reproducable results if you measure the same headphone over and over, even on the same setup. I'd bet they do it as well as anyone could but if you peer at every little zig and zag of a whole bunch of those graphs you're probably trying to read it closer than the basic reliability of this kind of test will admit.

Then there's the question of "valid". That means whether what is on those graphs matches up to what you're trying to find out when you examine a bunch of them. The answer is not really. Graphs like this with a dummy head and so forth are great for pointing out where the objective differences between various models of heaphone exist when tested under this specific setup. But hearing a headphone is such a subjective thing, that coupled with ear-to-ear variances in ear/head shapes means you can't map details from a graph into what you are actually going to perceive. Validity is just not possible from a laboratory measurement process if the final question is "how will it sound to me". That's not a knock on Headroom, just a fact of life.
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM Post #21 of 43


Quote:
Be careful not to confuse "accurate" with "reliable" and neither of those is the same as "valid".

I trust the Headroom graphs to be reasonably accurate. I don't think they make any significant errors in measuring or presenting their results, although they're only human and I suppose one graph here or there could occasionally turn out just plain wrong. They'd probably catch it eventually, though.

They do everything possible to make them "reliable" but that's a real bugaboo with headphone testing. Because of the whole thing about interacting with the test "head" it's actually darned hard to get perfectly reproducable results if you measure the same headphone over and over, even on the same setup. I'd bet they do it as well as anyone could but if you peer at every little zig and zag of a whole bunch of those graphs you're probably trying to read it closer than the basic reliability of this kind of test will admit.

Then there's the question of "valid". That means whether what is on those graphs matches up to what you're trying to find out when you examine a bunch of them. The answer is not really. Graphs like this with a dummy head and so forth are great for pointing out where the objective differences between various models of heaphone exist when tested under this specific setup. But hearing a headphone is such a subjective thing, that coupled with ear-to-ear variances in ear/head shapes means you can't map details from a graph into what you are actually going to perceive. Validity is just not possible from a laboratory measurement process if the final question is "how will it sound to me". That's not a knock on Headroom, just a fact of life.



Good post. What you're saying seems logical to me. I think the graphs are good for giving a very brief and general idea of what the headphones sound like but I totally agree with you that it's up to one to decide once they actually hear the headphones.
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 3:13 PM Post #22 of 43
Talking about accuracy, I came to think of the headphone measuring maverick: Dave Rat! Now he's my man, down to basics with empirical laborations of the finest kind, a microphone stuck up his ear. I recommend all of you to participate in his five part course in finding the flattest live monitor headphone to replace his treasured CD3000. Winner? You'll have to find out yourself, but Ultrasone and Denon are among the contenders. Start from the beginning:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJh8B1QfEn0
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM Post #23 of 43


Quote:
Amazon reviews are so rediculous.  It doesn't matter how crappy the product is, people come along and give it 5 star reviews and say it's the best thing ever.  In one of those 5 star reviews, the guy says he's heard STAX before...


They probably say the same thing about us
redface.gif

 
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 9:40 PM Post #24 of 43
i don't get the 'fo'sho'' included in the title. otherwise these headphones are terrible. not to be in bad taste, but maybe with the hit sony's stocks have been taking due to the current natural disaster, we may just see some of the crappier headphones disappearing. i don't know anything about the stock market though.

 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 9:50 PM Post #25 of 43


Quote:
Headroom's FR graphs are often not reliable? Really? I'm not challenging the idea. Just surprised at the idea that they may not be accurate. I almost wonder if that could get them into legal trouble.

 
We are talking about the audio industry here bro, not NASA :)
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 9:55 PM Post #26 of 43


Quote:
i don't get the 'fo'sho'' included in the title. otherwise these headphones are terrible. not to be in bad taste, but maybe with the hit sony's stocks have been taking due to the current natural disaster, we may just see some of the crappier headphones disappearing. i don't know anything about the stock market though.

 


The market will bounce back - its the usual spectacle of the idiots with weak bladders abandoning all hope and selling off assets that they wont be able to afford when things inevitably turn around. Already, there are people in the mining sector here in Australia rubbing their hands together at the prospect of the massive rebuilding effort that will come after the hysteria has died down.
 
 
Mar 15, 2011 at 10:25 PM Post #27 of 43


Quote:
Honestly, that's not a lot different than the Sennheiser 201's...
 

 
I've heard these before.  They do indeed have no bass to speak of, but I guess some people (like my brother) like the sound signature for the $15 they pay.



....that graph looks like a face.
 
Mar 16, 2011 at 12:55 AM Post #29 of 43
cant unsee?
 
 

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