Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

Aug 25, 2022 at 4:36 AM Post #16,696 of 19,756
imo tt2 broke all records for distortion and frequency dependent distortion, as evident from various tests. i don't know how much that sinad difference from topping d90se will affect the sound. difference in sinad is around 6db.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 5:07 AM Post #16,698 of 19,756
wait for golden sound to do tt2 measurements.
Is there a need?
ASR's measurements has vindicated TT2 already. The unit measured excellent, but ASR's usual gripe about the cost of the unit? no re-measurement can change that.
If you want it, pay for it, just like anything else in life.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 7:28 AM Post #16,700 of 19,756
I dont have any beliefs. I am open to measurements. However, this is recreation, not medical science. Enjoyment is the name of the game. I am open to nutritional science, but I don’t use it to order food at a restaurant. I follow my taste. Why do I need to prove something to you? I am having fun listening to great music…. This is all money we have set aside as disposable for recreation. The path to sonic bliss is the best path—obviously! Not the path to what a computer says I should value. Measurements can help show if a product is disfunctional, but it cannot measure the subjective value of the product. Also, remember all the Chord dacs measured “excellent” according to Lord Amir. If measurements are all that matters and no subjectivity is involved in Lord Amir’s review process, then why are the Chord dacs not spoken of as “excellent” since they fall in that category? I posted this in another thread, but I will repeat here:

ASR dudes are party poopers. Who would want them at a listening party? The people I hang out with and listen with have epic disucssions that are as enjoyable as music. Who wants to hang out with a condescending know-it-all?

Futhermore, I do NOT think their way is a valid approach to bliss, Nirvana in your stereo. The dudes I know who are happy, have learned to listen and to understand their own taste and then saved up enough to get the gear that satisfies their taste as well as the room to let the equipment shine (if speakers). I would highly recommend avoiding following Lord Amir and instead follow your own taste.

IMO the way to bliss is to learn to listen, understand your taste in sound and music and learn to articulate it (for your own sake and for the sake of conversation with others, which is precious). Hang out with more experienced hobbyists and have meaningful conversations and listen to them and to their systems. Dealers are hit or miss, and some are just pushers, but if you can find one that is trustworthy and willing to get to know your taste, that will be a precious key to developing your system. The best ones offer home demo, even if it is for a fee. That is a wonderful tool. Reviews, measurements and forums can add some spice, but are of limited value (unless the measurements display complete dysfunction in some way). If you find a reviewer with tastes similar to yours, their voice can increase in value. In general, not all expensive things are nice, but all nice things are expensive. There are exceptions to this principle, but it is broadly true. That said, most companies have sweet spots in their lines, where you get almost everything without having to spend a lot more for the final %. Stay within your budget—every budget has good options. Remember, this is recreation. It needn’t be so serious. Have fun, even with your mistakes as you learn and grow. Have fun. Enjoy music, enjoy listening to music and learning about music and gear.

That is my recipe for good stereo-building. YMMV.

There are plenty of sites/magazines that include measurements without being snarky, condescending know-it-alls. Stereophile has measurements in every review and Goldensound also includes them. Both use them as an addition to subjective impressiions and look at them open-mindedly, wondering how to interpret them and how they matter. And, most importantly, they do it while maintaining a love for music and the enjoyment of music and present conversations that would be welcome at a party, not as snide condescension. If Lord Amir presented measurements with such a voice, we wouldn’t need these silly “camps” in our hobby, They are pointless and wasteful. Such scientific rigor is needed in medicine or other serious fields, but not in the world of sensual enjoyment. Personally, what I am paying for is bliss and immersion, greater joy and connection to my music. I don’t care which bias gets me there. Too much critical, objective approach takes me out, reduces my engagement and leaves me apart from the music, using songs to evaluate gear instead of gear to evaluate songs…. I want to forget the gear, lose the stereo. My current system has speakers that completely vanish….

The mindset Lord Amir suggests is itself an obstacle to true immersion in music and bliss!
This is perfectly said, you should talk about this anywhere that you can, unfortunately that ASR site is telling people to just focus on numbers and my fear is that a lot of people will find themselves not happy listening to stuff they don't like just because some guy says the stuff is transparent due to numbers. Keep the message going as you are 100% correct.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 9:18 AM Post #16,701 of 19,756
He is a sad grown man. His measurements are nothing but prejudice.

He just fuels it even more….on the other hand he sits with DCA Stealth…. Ask him where his 500dollars headphone is. It has better(lower ohms) better measurement. Why dont he use it?
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 9:43 AM Post #16,702 of 19,756
He is a sad grown man. His measurements are nothing but prejudice.
Can we lay off personal comments/attacks about the man please!
If it is wrong when they do it, should we stoop to their level?
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 9:49 AM Post #16,703 of 19,756
Before I got into head-fi I once owned a Burson dac/amp with swappable BrownBurr and ESS dac modules. The audible difference was easily apparent between the two which was confusing to me, as I expected DACs to sound the same and it was the transducer and amp that made an audible difference. This led me to discover hqplayer and then I realized that filters and noise-shaping of the digital information effected the analog signal, so I believe my TT2 is superior because of Rob’s filter (software).

Reviewers could evolve their testing methods to include CSD/waterfall spectrum measurements and test tones on a benchmark headphone (say HD800) to demonstrate how the analog output signal interacts with the transducer - which is what we ultimately hear. I’d like to see how the cheap/expensive equipment performs when the sound is coming out of my utopias.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 11:27 AM Post #16,706 of 19,756
No difference in time domain measurements? My Mum gave me lot's of advice (actually more like commands) about how to behave when I was a child. One thing she said was never argue with idiots or bullies - just walk away.

Take my advice - don't read the faux reviews or take the "measurements" seriously.

And don't take the click-bait and go to his site.

If you believe his measurements are wrong, show your measurements to prove it.

Hurling unwarranted insults just make you look defensive.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 11:31 AM Post #16,707 of 19,756
@Rob Watts has to step in now, this Amir guy is now putting up time domain measurements and saying there is absolutely no difference between the TT-2 Impulse response vs a Topping Chi-fi cheap DAC. Chord DACs focus on time domain corrections, Rob can you please chime in? Thanks.

I don't think it shows no difference I think it shows as worse than the topping but I don't know anything about time domain measurements so don't hold me to that.
 
Aug 25, 2022 at 11:36 AM Post #16,708 of 19,756
You can always conduct a blind test with an established and repeatable methodology that allows you to refute the objective measurements of Amir (and other nansayers) demonstrating the supposed audible differences between gear, and best of all, you can upload it to YouTube so that it has greater diffusion and impact into the audio community.

That is the ultimate proof to show that there are no biases (price biases, confirmation biases, etc.) and shut up once and for all those nerds of the numbers, but curiously, none of those who constantly complain about the measurements and their correlation with our hearing threshold seem willing to refute anything, beyond to validate their beliefs within their own circlejerks. :slight_smile:

blind and sighted testing is what ive been doing the past few weeks on DACs from £100-£1500 and its very hard to hear any subtle differences when they are there, I have decided to focus on features as what determines which dac I keep. The money is best spent on headphones/speakers.
 
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Aug 25, 2022 at 12:21 PM Post #16,709 of 19,756
blind and sighted testing is what ive been doing the past few weeks on DACs from £100-£1500 and its very hard to hear any subtle differences when they are there, I have decided to focus on features as what determines which dac I keep. The money is best spent on speakers.
On different dacs, you can sometimes hear new details in songs, like a singer is being accompanied by another singer.

Seems odd that, to go along with ASR, is to dispute that different dacs sound different, not just in tone, but in seperation, which is key to hearing more exciting revealing musical stuff.

Thought I’m not disputing your experience. Maybe small steps in similar dacs with similar dac chips embedded - would be hard.
 
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Aug 25, 2022 at 12:35 PM Post #16,710 of 19,756
Differences may or may not be subtle, but I found changes in separation (most noticeable when the audience of a live performance is clapping) speed/decay of notes (sounds fade to nothing) and texture (reverb of strings and drum snare). Like art, food or wine once someone shows you the differences then you can start to appreciate them.
 

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