Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[betula]

Measuring what you can measure on TOTL equipment to me is a bit like analysing the ingredients of a Michelin star food. Sure, you can measure the percentage of salt or seafood ingredients but none of these numbers will describe the experience you get.
You can fill your stomach with $5 burgers and there are some great $5 burgers. Not everyone will spend $100/200 on one dinner, unless they get a special experience that they can appreciate. Therefore it is worth it for them.

It is the same with audio. You can have your $5 burger headphones/amps and enjoy them. There is nothing wrong with that.
Or you can go fine dining like TT2, but not everyone will appreciate fine dining, not all audio lovers have sophisticated enough senses to appreciate fine audio.
This is an unpopular opinion, but something I found to be true throughout the years.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Measuring what you can measure on TOTL equipment to me is a bit like analysing the ingredients of a Michelin star food. Sure, you can measure the percentage of salt or seafood ingredients but none of these numbers will describe the experience you get.
You can fill your stomach with $5 burgers and there are some great $5 burgers. Not everyone will spend $100/200 for one dinner, unless they get a special experience that they can appreciate. Therefore it is worth it for them.

It is the same with audio. You can have your $5 burger headphones/amps and enjoy them. There is nothing wrong with that.
Or you can go fine dining like TT2, but not everyone will appreciate fine dining, not all audio lovers have sophisticated enough senses to appreciate fine audio.
This is an unpopular opinion, but something I found to be true throughout the years.

I agree

 

[Merkurio]

Measuring what you can measure on TOTL equipment to me is a bit like analysing the ingredients of a Michelin star food. Sure, you can measure the percentage of salt or seafood ingredients but none of these numbers will describe the experience you get.
You can fill your stomach with $5 burgers and there are some great $5 burgers. Not everyone will spend $100/200 on one dinner, unless they get a special experience that they can appreciate. Therefore it is worth it for them.

It is the same with audio. You can have your $5 burger headphones/amps and enjoy them. There is nothing wrong with that.
Or you can go fine dining like TT2, but not everyone will appreciate fine dining, not all audio lovers have sophisticated enough senses to appreciate fine audio.
This is an unpopular opinion, but something I found to be true throughout the years.

The basic flaw in your analogy is that everyone can distinguish the difference in flavor between a $5 burger and a $200 dish, sighted or blind, as well as everyone can hear the difference between a headphone with a particular FR and a headphone with another.

However, you will struggle to find differences (if you find any) between a $150 DAC and a multi-thousand dollar one in controlled blind test conditions with matched voltages, and this is something that people like Amir know perfectly well, in the end their rankings are to find the best engineering regardless of price, not the best (or any different) sound, because the headphones are the ones responsible for projecting sound.

 

[betula]

The basic flaw in your analogy is that everyone can distinguish the difference in flavor between a $5 burger and a $200 dish, sighted or blind, as well as everyone can hear the difference between a headphone with a particular FR and a headphone with another.

However, you will struggle to find differences (if you find one) between a $150 DAC and multi-thousand dollar one in a controlled blind test with matched voltages, and this is something that people like Amir know perfectly well, in the end their rankings are to find the best engineering regardless of price, not the best (or any different) sound.

Here we are basically arguing about the percentage of people who are able to hear a difference between A and B.
This depends very much on where we take our sample from. At this point I think we simply do not have enough independent data do decide this argument.

 

[Merkurio]

Here we are basically arguing about the percentage of people who are able to hear a difference between A and B.
This depends very much on where we take our sample from. At this point I think we simply do not have have enough independent data do decide this argument.

I mean, following a correct methodology to avoid as much bias as possible, you can try it for yourself, not that it's some kind of taboo knowledge only allowed for a few to try, it’s a basic probabilistic experiment.

 

[betula]

I mean, following a correct methodology to avoid as much bias as possible, you can try it for yourself, not that it's some kind of taboo knowledge only allowed for a few to try, it’s a basic probabilistic experiment.

In a recent blind test I easily distinguished Qutest, TT2, RME-ADI2, Soekris 2541. And that was just for fun. I share this not for my own praise but to prove there are easily audible differences between DACs.

 

[Merkurio]

In a recent blind test I easily distinguished Qutest, TT2, RME-ADI2, Soekris 2541. And that was just for fun. I share this not for my own praise but to prove there are easily audible differences between DACs.

May I ask for the methodology and setup of your test?

 

[miketlse]

I mean, following a correct methodology to avoid as much bias as possible, you can try it for yourself, not that it's some kind of taboo knowledge only allowed for a few to try, it’s a basic probabilistic experiment.

But methodologies are based on an existing data model, including its assumptions.
The difficulty is that cults of any description decide on the results/knowledge, and if new data differs from that, then the data must be changed, instead of the data model.

 

[betula]

May I ask for the methodology and setup of your test?

The setup was having all DACs available.
The methodology was changing all plugs as quickly as possible.
I did try to keep spl levels the same though.
It was a very amateur test, but I don't think it degrades results from a consumer point of view.

 

[rocketron]

The basic flaw in your analogy is that everyone can distinguish the difference in flavor between a $5 burger and a $200 dish, sighted or blind, as well as everyone can hear the difference between a headphone with a particular FR and a headphone with another.

However, you will struggle to find differences (if you find any) between a $150 DAC and a multi-thousand dollar one in controlled blind test conditions with matched voltages, and this is something that people like Amir know perfectly well, in the end their rankings are to find the best engineering regardless of price, not the best (or any different) sound, because the headphones are the ones responsible for projecting sound.

Brilliant this has made my day.

If you can’t hear a difference in dacs your a very lucky man.
This will save you a small fortune in life.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Brilliant this has made my day.

If you can’t hear a difference in dacs your a very lucky man.
This will save you a small fortune in life.

Hajajajajahajauauaj

 

[Merkurio]

The setup was having all DACs available.
The methodology was changing all plugs as quickly as possible.
I did try to keep spl levels the same though.
It was a very amateur test, but I don't think it degrades results from a consumer point of view.

It absolutely does, because you didn't even do a blind test in the first place since you knew exactly which was which at all times, and you didn't even match the output level with a multimeter to make sure you get the same SPL out of all of them.

You see, the problem with these “informal” blind tests is that 99% are not done correctly and lead to illusory conclusions, the reality is that they are not easy to do and you need the help of another person to assist you, as well as useful accessories such as a audio switcher to be able to change instantly without having to connect and disconnect between gear (since our echoic memory is very short and we need changes to occur almost instantly to be able to perceive them).

 

[betula]

It absolutely does, because you didn't even do a blind test in the first place since you knew exactly which was which at all times, and you didn't even match the output level with a multimeter to make sure you get the same SPL out of all of them.

You see, the problem with these “informal” blind tests is that 99% are not done correctly and lead to illusory conclusions, the reality is that they are not easy to do and you need the help of another person to assist you, as well as useful accessories such as a audio switcher to be able to change instantly without having to connect and disconnect between gear (since our echoic memory is very short and we need changes to occur almost instantly to be able to perceive them).

OK .
I think I will just keep enjoying my TT2 instead of having another scientific argument.

 

[ZappaMan]

It’s an incredible statement, that all dacs sound the same. Why would there be an entire market worth millions of pounds if in fact, they all sounded the same.

Dac chips can cost a few pence that are put into tv’s (I’ve heard).

My old tv sounded terrible. Is the argument then also the same, all tvs sound the same ?

 

[Merkurio]

OK .
I think I will just keep enjoying my TT2 instead of having another scientific argument.

Be my guest, much better and healthier than making meaningless and easy refutable analogies.