[AndrewOld]

There is actually a whole host of labels on nativeDSD such as Fonè/SDM&LiveRec but also the independent label BlueCoast Records with the talented Cookie Marenco at the helm.

OK, so now I’ve shown you that BlueCoast records most certainly do not record only to DSD as you claim, let’s look at Fonè. Here is a picture of all their ANALOGUE tape machines.

http://fone.it/technology/


So they aren’t “only DSD” either.

 

[rayl]

The only problem with DSD Native recording is “editing”. This is the reason why many records are in high quality PCM instead. This was what RW meant to reconstruct and retrieve the perfect information at the recording event At the ADC stages.

I am having a bit of difficulty parsing "problem" in "editing." Are you agreeing with my remark that most (all) systems apart from Sonoma and Pyramix are PCM in-the-box or are you saying that there is a scarcity in the in-the-box plugin ecosystems so it is difficult to work on Sonoma? If the latter, it is true by virtue of the rareness of Sonoma, but houses that are interested in DSD don't really care about the latest effects plugins, etc. bec the genres of music for the DSD market frowns upon them.

The rareness of non-PCM-touched DSD and the lack of substantial overlap with my genre preferences was what allowed me to get over the DSD objection and embrace Chord.

However, the development of DSD wide is welcome if for no other reason that as studios upgrade, we see less 1 bit DSD for the masters. For reasons unknown to me, 705.6 PCM for masters seems to be poorly adopted.

 

[HeeBroG]

OK, so now I’ve shown you that BlueCoast records most certainly do not record only to DSD as you claim, let’s look at Fonè. Here is a picture of all their ANALOGUE tape machines.

http://fone.it/technology/


So they aren’t “only DSD” either.

I appreciate that Fonè has analog machines as they make analog recordings for LP releases.
I don't have a turntable so I purchase digital downloads from various sites including Native DSD which resells Fonè music and their albums will often have particular details of the recording venue and technique.

https://fonerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/SACD175-ballads-for-audiophiles

As an example, the above album states that it was recorded in DSD 64 on a Pyramix machine using a dCS A/D converter so I assume that is correct if stated by the label.

As for BlueCoast Records, here are quotes from the link you sent.

"Part of the E.S.E. technique includes recording to DSD or analog tape while musicians perform live in the studio without the use of headphones or overdubs. The music is mixed to DSD or 1/2" tape. The music never enters a PCM digital state, which Marenco feels compromises the sound." (my emphasis)

"Our recording chain starts with vintage mics (B&K's, Neumann, AKG). Then we tie it together with an incredible silver alloy cable (proprietary -- we build our cables in house) to Millennia, Neve and Manley preamps and record direct to 2" analog tape or DSD for the multi-track.
We always mix to the Sonoma in DSD, though, sometimes we include the 1/2" tape.(my emphasis)

Perhaps I am missing something here.

In any case, the digital files available to me often is a only a DSD download with the various issues mentioned by RW.
Whether the recording is originally done in analog I guess may not be all that relevant if it is then encoded in DSD for sale.
Now that I have M-scaler I only purchase the DSD64 file.

 

[AndrewOld]

I appreciate that Fonè has analog machines as they make analog recordings for LP releases.
I don't have a turntable so I purchase digital downloads from various sites including Native DSD which resells Fonè music and their albums will often have particular details of the recording venue and technique.

https://fonerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/SACD175-ballads-for-audiophiles

As an example, the above album states that it was recorded in DSD 64 on a Pyramix machine using a dCS A/D converter so I assume that is correct if stated by the label.

As for BlueCoast Records, here are quotes from the link you sent.

"Part of the E.S.E. technique includes recording to DSD or analog tape while musicians perform live in the studio without the use of headphones or overdubs. The music is mixed to DSD or 1/2" tape. The music never enters a PCM digital state, which Marenco feels compromises the sound." (my emphasis)

"Our recording chain starts with vintage mics (B&K's, Neumann, AKG). Then we tie it together with an incredible silver alloy cable (proprietary -- we build our cables in house) to Millennia, Neve and Manley preamps and record direct to 2" analog tape or DSD for the multi-track.
We always mix to the Sonoma in DSD, though, sometimes we include the 1/2" tape.(my emphasis)

Perhaps I am missing something here.

In any case, the digital files available to me often is a only a DSD download with the various issues mentioned by RW.
Whether the recording is originally done in analog I guess may not be all that relevant if it is then encoded in DSD for sale.
Now that I have M-scaler I only purchase the DSD64 file.

You claimed that “there are many good recording engineers/labels who record only in DSD.”

Of the few engineers you were able to quote at least two record onto analogue tape, and Cook Marengo does so most of the time.

So there are not “many good recording engineers/labels who record only in DSD”, there are a very few good recording engineers who sometimes record onto DSD.

DSD is a virtually unused medium nowadays. Before hires streaming and downloads some hires PCM recordings were transferred to DSD in order to issue them on SACDs, and some analogue masters were archived onto DSD. Very, very few recordings of any significance have ever been made in DSD, and it is unlikely that any will be.

 

[514077]

There is actually a whole host of labels on nativeDSD such as Fonè/SDM&LiveRec but also the independent label BlueCoast Records with the talented Cookie Marenco at the helm.
As RW stated, there is more to a good recording than the format used.
What is interesting is that some of these companies go to extraordinary lengths to achieve a live sound without remixing.
I just asked the question as sadly they have chosen to record direct to DSD so we miss out on how good it could have been.
Nevertheless, some of the recordings are excellent and the music eclectic.

I get so tired of this. I'm not convinced that DSD is bad. So what if it's recorded in DSD. Just because I own and strongly believe and have been sold on Chord, doesn't mean I won't buy DSD. There are perfectly legitimate people out there who believe DSD has something to offer. I may-and admit to being a 'fanboy' or sold customer of RW's methods and abilities to produce the finest DACs and electronics for music in the world. But, I like DSD, and I think some people have perfectly reasonable views on why they've chosen to record in it.

 

[514077]

You claimed that “there are many good recording engineers/labels who record only in DSD.”

Of the few engineers you were able to quote at least two record onto analogue tape, and Cook Marengo does so most of the time.

So there are not “many good recording engineers/labels who record only in DSD”, there are a very few good recording engineers who sometimes record onto DSD.

DSD is a virtually unused medium nowadays. Before hires streaming and downloads some hires PCM recordings were transferred to DSD in order to issue them on SACDs, and some analogue masters were archived onto DSD. Very, very few recordings of any significance have ever been made in DSD, and it is unlikely that any will be.

If you don't like DSD, don't buy it. If others like it, what's it to you. Sounds like the same old ANNOYING 'vinyl/digital' 'measure/listen' bullhuey we put up with in this hobby. I WILL buy and enjoy what NativeDSD offers, and listen to it on my Chord DAC. No matter what Rob thinks about it, he's tried to get the best out of DSD for his customers. He's even gone as far as to improve DSD decoding with Hugo2 over DAVE. The argument is fast getting 'Old'.

 

[Clive101]

Hello @Rob Watts I wondered if you know the plug size specification of the male power output of power supply to the MScaler.

If I may ask ( but feel free not to answer ) regarding digital amps, is there any likelihood there may be a dedicated headphone amp as I notice the Hugo TT 2 has a larger power amplifier than Dave ?

I have a dilemma as to add Dave or Hugo TT2 to the MSacler as I have LCD4 headphones and a number of people are using external amps it's not a question of volume but people are noticing extra dynamics etc.

I get good results with the Dave but just wondered.....

 

[AndrewOld]

If you don't like DSD, don't buy it. If others like it, what's it to you. Sounds like the same old ANNOYING 'vinyl/digital' 'measure/listen' bullhuey we put up with in this hobby. I WILL buy and enjoy what NativeDSD offers, and listen to it on my Chord DAC. No matter what Rob thinks about it, he's tried to get the best out of DSD for his customers. He's even gone as far as to improve DSD decoding with Hugo2 over DAVE. The argument is fast getting 'Old'.

The only point I want to make is that hardly any recordings are made in DSD start to finish. Even one of the few enthusiastic advocates of DSD such as Cookie Marenco mostly records to analogue tape. DSD is of very little interest to anyone who wants to listen to a decent range of music. There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of fantastic PCM recordings out there.

 

[Whitigir]

Many people are still confused about DSD and what it is. Anyways, what you are going to hear from MScaler and all Chord products, you are down converting all DSD into PCM, and using all Chords proprietary DSP/hardware to process the signals into analog. Period

 

[Rob Watts]

Hello @Rob Watts I wondered if you know the plug size specification of the male power output of power supply to the MScaler.

If I may ask ( but feel free not to answer ) regarding digital amps, is there any likelihood there may be a dedicated headphone amp as I notice the Hugo TT 2 has a larger power amplifier than Dave ?

I have a dilemma as to add Dave or Hugo TT2 to the MSacler as I have LCD4 headphones and a number of people are using external amps it's not a question of volume but people are noticing extra dynamics etc.

I get good results with the Dave but just wondered.....

The first DX amp will have HP outputs.

As to the LCD4 then Dave is easily able to drive them; you will get 120 dB SPL! Dave will certainly supply the absolute best transparency.

Your best bet is to have a TT2/Dave demo at your dealer.

 

[Clive101]

The first DX amp will have HP outputs.

As to the LCD4 then Dave is easily able to drive them; you will get 120 dB SPL! Dave will certainly supply the absolute best transparency.

Your best bet is to have a TT2/Dave demo at your dealer.

Thank you for the speedy reply I will arrange a demo

 

[jlbrach]

so when should we expect the first DX amp with HP outputs?

 

[514077]

so when should we expect the first DX amp with HP outputs?

After the 2go, I hope.

 

[lesserpanda]

Can someone please enlighten me what DX amp is, what the advantages are over conventional amplifiers?

 

[dac64]

Is RW proprietary digital amp. Can accept digital signal directly from HMS therefore least losses of signals before analogue to speakers or headphone.

It comes with volume control for inputs from dave or blu2.

And there will be digital xcover product too, best of the world. And hopefully it's layman user friendly! I.e. accept inputs from mic and auto-tuned!