[Zagato]

There are no mysteries in


Wrong.

1/ CD being played is on the fly conversion (live conversions where everything from hardware level to the software being used will matters). Therefore, different CD players will sound different and performances are not the same. An example is timing errors

2/ Ripped CD is depend on the software that is being used, the method of extracting the files. Once it is recorded as a FLAC files, whatever lost information remain lost forever, and whatever additional errors happen will remain forever on that file. Unless that CD is being ripped by a better methods. This is where software is more essential than hardware.

There are additional. Live conversion from digital music, be it DSD or PCM, they are being processed on the fly (in real time). Therefore, all of the supportive things will affect it differently. Including cables Characteristic impedance, interface, IC, clock....etc...etc....the only differences here is that if you were to use Offline conversions on your PCM or DSD (assuming you have perfected software and algorithm for the best performances), then your Files are the best it can be. The DAC will process the best information available in PCM and supposedly will perform the best result. The same as DSD Native, but slight differences is that the DAC don’t decode anymore but bypass into analog sections.

I am not sure how Pulse Arrays works in Chord products. But from what I have been reading, it is a system where it rely much on the DSP of Chord design, and minimize Timing errors, and this applies toward other designs such as Upscaling-Downscaling (44.1 or DSD) in the goal to achieve the best specifications of the files, and then feed PCM into Chord own DAC pulse arrays to output the best possible result (under Chord engineering and developments)

To answer your question. Once the PCM is recorded, whatever errors or lost info will remain. There is no way to see in the pass what had been lost. Whatever you are doing on this current file is just taking the best of it as possible. Therefore, In a sense, if you wanted the best possible, you have to get a Blue CD players to rip your file or to play live into M-Scaler.

Thanks for your reply - it does make sense

 

[JaZZ]

Thanks for your reply - it does make sense

Not to me. I'm not pretending one source sounds necessarily the same as any other – although theoretically it shouldn't matter, since bits are bits –, but Whitigir's explanations are simply confuse. E.g. information lost in Flac files (Flac = lossless compression!).

 

[Whitigir]

Not to me. I'm not pretending one source sounds necessarily the same as any other – although theoretically it shouldn't matter, since bits are bits –, but Whitigir's explanations are simply confuse. E.g. information lost in Flac files (Flac = lossless compression!).

FLAC is lossless compressions, but PCM is editable. See ? When you play back music in PCM (FLAC), you can use EQ right ? That is because PCM has the ability to add, and or subtract (so yes, lost info or additional errors happen) It depends on many different variables that your Riped CD files are never the same when using different software.

FLAC is deemed lossless in a way that there are no Intentional removal of information in comparison to MP3.....but the software and hardware limitations will come into play (Unintentionally, ofcourse). The same as High Resolution music player. Do you think all High Resolution music player sound the same ?

 

[Rhamnetin]

I have Singxer SU-1 but I connect Dave directly to my PC via USB. No need for SU-1 with Dave.

BTW, my Singxer SU-1 does not have an optical out. Is there any SU-1 variant with optical out?

I believe it has optical out via a mini toslink connection, not a standard one. Thanks for the answer though, I would assume the Hugo TT 2 and M Scaler and DAVE don't need it.

 

[elviscaprice]

FLAC is lossless compressions, but PCM is editable. See ? When you play back music in PCM (FLAC), you can use EQ right ? That is because PCM has the ability to add, and or subtract (so yes, lost info or additional errors happen) It depends on many different variables that your Riped CD files are never the same when using different software.

FLAC is deemed lossless in a way that there are no Intentional removal of information in comparison to MP3.....but the software and hardware limitations will come into play (Unintentionally, ofcourse). The same as High Resolution music player. Do you think all High Resolution music player sound the same ?

All I can say is your lost here. All media players will decompress FLAC to PCM before streaming. The amount of power needed to perform this function is meaningless today and has a negligible effect on SQ. There are far more bigger dragons to slay in initiating an audio stream. Mobo design, power, clocking.

 

[Whitigir]

All I can say is your lost here. All media players will decompress FLAC to PCM before streaming. The amount of power needed to perform this function is meaningless today and has a negligible effect on SQ. There are far more bigger dragons to slay in initiating an audio stream. Mobo design, power, clocking.

FLAC is just a format of PCM, same as WAV, just like DSF is a format of DSD. All PCM goes through modulators and upsampling process (not sure about pulse arrays of Chord). I am not at lost but if you say so, that is fine. I already explained the above, and that included hardware limitations. But if you think I am wrong then I will stop posting. I have built my own PC server, amplifiers, and many other projects. My knowledge is limited, and I have no problem accepting that.

My answer was to simply explain why someone would need a Blue CD player and why different software would affect the sound quality from Ripping a CD in order to take full benefit of MScaler

 

[elviscaprice]

My answer was to simply explain why someone would need a Blue CD player and why different software would affect the sound quality from Ripping a CD

My answer would be that all your doing is changing the phase/electrical noise accompanying a stream. Solve the clocking and power issues and the resulting streams would be indistinguishable regardless of software, as long as bit perfect.

 

[JaZZ]

FLAC is just a format of PCM, same as WAV, just like DSF is a format of DSD. All PCM goes through modulators and upsampling process (not sure about pulse arrays of Chord). I am not at lost but if you say so, that is fine. I already explained the above, and that included hardware limitations. But if you think I am wrong then I will stop posting. I have built my own PC server, amplifiers, and many other projects. My knowledge is limited, and I have no problem accepting that.

My answer was to simply explain why someone would need a Blue CD player and why different software would affect the sound quality from Ripping a CD in order to take full benefit of MScaler

There may be very slight deviations in the ripping results due to uncertainties with respect to track starts and stops, but the content itself will be bit perfect, provided an error-free rip. So CDs and the ripped PCM files will sound the same – theoretically. However, there are some known (jitter, RFI) and maybe some unknown effects at work that make different transports lead to deviating sonic results. Now jitter is said to be a non-issue with DAVE and Hugo₂, so it's just RFI, some cable effects and the mentioned unkown effects that will influence the sonic result. Certainly not the player software if you use ASIO or WASAPI and/or Chord's USB drivers for bit-perfect data transmission. BTW, equalizing isn't a flaw if done right, moreover it's never the default playback mode in a software player.

 

[ZappaMan]

There may be very slight deviations in the ripping results due to uncertainties with respect to track starts and stops, but the content itself will be bit perfect, provided an error-free rip. So CDs and the ripped PCM files will sound the same – theoretically. However, there are some known (jitter, RFI) and maybe some unknown effects at work that make different transports lead to deviating sonic results. Now jitter is said to be a non-issue with DAVE and Hugo₂, so it's just RFI, some cable effects and the mentioned unkown effects that will influence the sonic result. Certainly not the player software if you use ASIO or WASAPI and/or Chord's USB drivers for bit-perfect data transmission. BTW, equalizing isn't a flaw if done right, moreover it's never the default playback mode in a software player.

So I’m loooking at options, for what would be the best source I can get, to feed mscaler.

firstly, I suppose it’ll use the same chord usb drivers, but secondly, I’m looking for a server that has the minimal amount of rfi emitted from it? Who knows what that server product would be? Nuc? Custom pc? Network streamer?

I just can’t settle on this idea, that the cheapest server with optical out, actually represents the high point of what a source can be. Then you have people saying the quality of the optical lead was changing the signal. Whole thing is a giant rabbit hole.

 

[Whazzzup]

The only thing that needs a driver is windows.

 

[JaZZ]

So I’m loooking at options, for what would be the best source I can get, to feed mscaler.

firstly, I suppose it’ll use the same chord usb drivers, but secondly, I’m looking for a server that has the minimal amount of rfi emitted from it? Who knows what that server product would be? Nuc? Custom pc? Network streamer?

I just can’t settle on this idea, that the cheapest server with optical out, actually represents the high point of what a source can be. Then you have people saying the quality of the optical lead was changing the signal. Whole thing is a giant rabbit hole.

If I were you, I woldn't rack my brain about it. Given Chord's fabulous jitter insensitivity, I can't see a reason why optical shouldn't be the best option, irrespective of the low cost it implies (and the 192 kHz limitation and the DSD restrictions, which I can easily cope with). And even if it's just second best (which I doubt), you have freed you mind for listening to music instead of chasing the optimal severs, BNC cables, reclockers/signal cleaners, power supplies and power cables. From what I get (haven't heard an M-Scaler so far) the sound will be revolutionary either way.

 

[maxh22]

So I’m loooking at options, for what would be the best source I can get, to feed mscaler.

firstly, I suppose it’ll use the same chord usb drivers, but secondly, I’m looking for a server that has the minimal amount of rfi emitted from it? Who knows what that server product would be? Nuc? Custom pc? Network streamer?

I just can’t settle on this idea, that the cheapest server with optical out, actually represents the high point of what a source can be. Then you have people saying the quality of the optical lead was changing the signal. Whole thing is a giant rabbit hole.

Try finding a cheap laptop with optical out and listen for yourself if it really is the best.

There’s more to it then that as I’ve just learned for myself how much of a difference ASIO vs Wasapi is.

I recently downloaded Audirvana for Windows 10 and the Realtek ASIO output to my ears has a clear timing advantage streaming Tidal given everything else is the same.

 

[Triode User]

So I’m loooking at options, for what would be the best source I can get, to feed mscaler.

firstly, I suppose it’ll use the same chord usb drivers, but secondly, I’m looking for a server that has the minimal amount of rfi emitted from it? Who knows what that server product would be? Nuc? Custom pc? Network streamer?

I just can’t settle on this idea, that the cheapest server with optical out, actually represents the high point of what a source can be. Then you have people saying the quality of the optical lead was changing the signal. Whole thing is a giant rabbit hole.

Spin some disks on a Blu2 and connect it to the Hugo MScaler? No, that would be stupid but it might be the best Sound!

 

[musickid]

After plenty of deliberation and weighing up price vs performance vs my needs vs my financial situation it was going to be a TT2 or a hugo 2 with mscaler. Based on the type of headphones i use and the desire for a true end game rig.....i placed a deposit on a silver hugo 2 with a silver mscaler today. Extremely happy with my decision.

 

[Deftone]

FLAC is lossless compressions, but PCM is editable. See ? When you play back music in PCM (FLAC), you can use EQ right ? That is because PCM has the ability to add, and or subtract (so yes, lost info or additional errors happen) It depends on many different variables that your Riped CD files are never the same when using different software.

FLAC is deemed lossless in a way that there are no Intentional removal of information in comparison to MP3.....but the software and hardware limitations will come into play (Unintentionally, ofcourse). The same as High Resolution music player. Do you think all High Resolution music player sound the same ?

You do know you can make accurate Wav/Flac CD rips right? shows you if the data is 100% identical to what is on the CD.