Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Oct 24, 2018 at 4:34 PM Post #2,206 of 18,448
It´s the first cable of its kind. And it was not tested with the M Scaler (but the Blaxius 1 was and worked fine). I suppose it is the cable that causes the issue in some way. But I thought it was strange that the same cable works at 705 kHz but not at 768 kHz. Maybe the M Scaler is quite a bit noisier with HiRes and some strange things happen with the JSSG?
 
Oct 24, 2018 at 5:37 PM Post #2,207 of 18,448
Maybe the M Scaler is quite a bit noisier with HiRes and some strange things happen with the JSSG?
It could indeed be a noise problem. Is there a certain resolution of the input files, where the problem starts (24 bit / xx kHz?)

By the way, another observation regarding noise, but in combination with the mains cable on M Scaler/SMPS. I can only advise to AVOID (or at least be careful with) well-filtering/expensive mains cables with the Hugo M Scaler!

When I got my M Scaler, I connected the SMPS to the mains, using a Shunyata Alpha Digital cable (with a Venom C14>C7 adapter). Now, I finally tried the standard mains cable for the first time (thanks to @yellowblue for switching my brain on with an intelligent question), and Hugo M Scaler sounds BETTER. A certain hardness in the sound is still there (hopefully, Triode User's BNC cable can eliminate this completely), but the unnatural brightness is nearly gone. I cannot really explain why the Shunyata cable (which is a fine cable) seems to increase the noise significantly. Maybe it reflects noise, which would normally go to wall socket, back into M Scaler and via BNC to Dave.

I am finally starting to really enjoy the M Scaler.:beerchug:
 
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Oct 24, 2018 at 6:47 PM Post #2,208 of 18,448
anyone recall the link for the battery pack that rob uses to get his mscaler for travelling, as i'd like to experiment with mscaler running on batteries.
 
Oct 24, 2018 at 11:59 PM Post #2,209 of 18,448
Poweradd Pilot Pro2 with no difference in SQ vs PSU.:L3000:
 
Oct 24, 2018 at 11:59 PM Post #2,210 of 18,448
I understand. But in which way does this affect the Blaxius^2 cable, but not the stock cable?

Many audiophile cables are not correct RF grade cables with 75 ohm. This is the reason I persuaded Chord to giveaway RF cables, to ensure a technically correct connection was made; it is also the cable that M scalers and DACs are tested against.

768 kHz using SPDIF is technically extremely challenging, this is why you do not see any other company worldwide running at this rate.
 
Oct 25, 2018 at 12:05 AM Post #2,211 of 18,448
095-850-187M100 Amphenol rf 75ohms 1 metre. BNC at £17 each from mouser electronics.

Good morning Rob. Are these reasonably priced 75 ohm cables okay to use.? They are very well made and i bought two yesterday.
Blu2 users reviewed them favourably.
 
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Oct 25, 2018 at 12:08 AM Post #2,212 of 18,448
095-850-187M100 Amphenol rf 75ohms 1 metre. BNC at £17 each from mouser electronics.

Good morning Rob. Are these reasonably priced 75 ohm cables okay to use.? They are very well made and i bought two yesterday.
Blu2 users reviewed them favourably.

He just literally said above your post that the included cables are the ones to use.
 
Oct 25, 2018 at 12:11 AM Post #2,213 of 18,448
095-850-187M100 Amphenol rf 75ohms 1 metre. BNC at £17 each from mouser electronics.

Good morning Rob. Are these reasonably priced 75 ohm cables okay to use.? They are very well made and i bought two yesterday.
Blu2 users reviewed them favourably.

If they have no drop-outs you are good to go!

In SQ the darker/warmer with better depth is technically the better performing cables. If it sounds brighter it's wrong, as more RF...
 
Oct 25, 2018 at 12:12 AM Post #2,214 of 18,448
There was concern over cables that were not rf grade at 75 ohms. My cables are rf grade and 75 ohms. I look forward to Rob's feedback.

Thankyou Rob for the quick reply and wishing you a good day. mk.
 
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Oct 25, 2018 at 1:42 AM Post #2,216 of 18,448
He just literally said above your post that the included cables are the ones to use.

That is putting more than a slight spin on what Rob Watts said and I am not sure to what purpose. He actually said that the ones supplied ensure a technically correct connection and that they are the cables used to test the MScalers and Blu2. He did not say they are better than other 75 ohm cables or that they should be used, just that they work. I am telling you that whilst they are a technically correct 75 ohm cable they are built to a price and are do not have the most robust cable to connector crimp joint I have ever seen. Over time and depending on handling that may or may not cause issues.

The only message was I think to ensure that one buys proper 75 ohm cables.
 
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Oct 25, 2018 at 2:18 AM Post #2,217 of 18,448
I have problems playing back DSD files through Roon and M Scaler. In Device Setup the "DSD Playback Strategy" is set to "native". The same setting as with Dave alone.
There is no sound at all with this setting. If the DSD playback strategy is set to DOP sound is coming through but not without crackling noise and dropouts. The driver is ASIO Chord 1.05 and using stock cables only.
Native DSD playback through Dave works flawlessly once Chord Dave has been identified specifically in device setup.
Any suggestions?
 
Oct 25, 2018 at 4:31 AM Post #2,218 of 18,448
So sad ... when I play HiRes files using the Blaxius^2 BNC cable I just get crackling noise and the display of the DAVE starts to flicker. How is this possible when the M Scaler is upsampling to 705 kHz anyway? I have no problem with 44 kHz files.

Hi yellowblue. If you and people allow me, we'll try to sort this issue in this thread. I mean, we could do it by email, but since you won't be the only one with the Blaxius^2 and we all like it to work, I think it is best to deal with this publically.

Many audiophile cables are not correct RF grade cables with 75 ohm. This is the reason I persuaded Chord to giveaway RF cables, to ensure a technically correct connection was made; it is also the cable that M scalers and DACs are tested against.

768 kHz using SPDIF is technically extremely challenging, this is why you do not see any other company worldwide running at this rate.

@Rob Watts, I understand and agree and have the experience you're talking about etc. But FYI, the cable is officially rated at 75 Ohm end to end, and that at 6GHz at a length of 130m, -3dB.
Maybe the 768KHz is too challenging for SPDIF ? Maybe it now too much depends on the length of the cable and the reflections occurring at this specific length and rate, or *lacking* at this length and rate (just saying) ?

Anyway, we'll work this out. So allow us a few back and forth questions, with later on the day hopefully a second customer of M Scaler and Blaxius^2 to contribute.

@yellowblue, would it be so that at 384 output all works again ? Thus 8x instead of 16x upsampling.
Also, if you have a Hires which is 44.1 based (like 88.2, 176.4), these normally work upsampled to 705.6 ? I'm asking, because there could be a relation to the input as well (different RF fields, whatever).
On the picture you showed (CA) ... do I see it correctly that you put the B side in the M Scaler ? If so and assumed the M Scaler outputs through the BNC cables (sorry for the daft suggestion - I just don't know), you connected the target end of the cables to the source. I am not saying that the issue will be solved if you turn around the cables (connect the A = source side to the M Scaler for output), but formally that was the idea about the configuration the Blaxius^2 was supplied to you.

It would be correct that I did not test these cables with the M Scaler as I do now own one. And as Rob suggested, not many other devices around to test it with. Point also is : this cable is configurable for a reason, although the reason is "Sound Quality" and not "connect". It should do the latter by all means, obviously. However, don't ask me how eye diagrams look when connected to the M Scaler. Also don't ask me which configuration does what to it (but it will influence by guarantee). And Rob, FYI : what's configurable is the shields (3 of them). So obviously this matters, especially in an RF environment which we can regard this is.

Additionally interesting is what I read in this thread about the galvanic isolation. If anything is detrimental to signal integrity it is that, and I don't mean this in the positive sense. BUT, I surely don't mean to say that it is not OK to have it. Only that it makes it more difficult. And for background maybe : I was the first to come up with the Intona and I was also the first who implemented Galvanic Isolation in-DAC (with a stupid chips starting with S born in Australia), so let's say I have some experience (and with a DAC which does 768 since 2011).

To yellowblue again : the most normal configuration would be A:B-W, B:B-W. Might you not like to turn around the (A-B) cables, then this config won't matter because now both sides are the same.
This config now uses the innermost shield only which now also conducts the ground return. It would equal the original Blaxius of which it is known that it works, at least on one M Scaler. But, two additional shields now surround it and with all the hoopla and extra dielectric the impedance could change somewhat. At this moment I have no judgment other than subjective how this 75 Ohm would be influenced by this super small range the ~480Mbit (480 MHz) which is implied here (on the bandwidth of the 6GHz the cable can do). And Rob, maybe you can tell me the real bit rate occurring in this case because for SPDIF I really don't know, plus it seems to me that per cable it is half anyway (you're using two connections to form the total bandwidth, right ?).

If there is a possibility to get me a loaner so I can sort it out with measurement and all, I would instantly do it. But for now let's first try the more common sense things.

Thanks,
Peter
 
Oct 25, 2018 at 4:58 AM Post #2,219 of 18,448
Simplest explanation is that the cable is no good, and that the guy that made it hasn’t got sufficient resources or knowledge to ensure that it works correctly with an M Scaler/DAVE. It uses non-standard earthing and a cable that is sensitive to bending. The cables that Chord supply work. A cable from a pro-supplier such as Farnell, RSComponents, Canford will work. Buy cables and hifi from people that know what they are doing.

yellow blue - imo you should receive a refund immediately. It is then up to you whether you help the vendor get the cable working. If you and he can get it working, you will have done him a favour so I would not expect you to have to pay for it.
 
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Oct 25, 2018 at 5:50 AM Post #2,220 of 18,448
I have problems playing back DSD files through Roon and M Scaler. In Device Setup the "DSD Playback Strategy" is set to "native". The same setting as with Dave alone.
There is no sound at all with this setting. If the DSD playback strategy is set to DOP sound is coming through but not without crackling noise and dropouts. The driver is ASIO Chord 1.05 and using stock cables only.
Native DSD playback through Dave works flawlessly once Chord Dave has been identified specifically in device setup.
Any suggestions?

Native DSD works fine with Roon and JRiver on the M scaler - the native DSD uses Dave code. You must set the SR OP setting to white on the Hugo M scaler, otherwise it will be silent as an OP, as native can't be TX as an SPDIF directly.

To answer @PeterSt the OP format requires 50M bit/s on each dual data cable; not super high speed in today's terms but challenging for SPDIF receivers.
 

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