[goody]

Even though I managed to get them for £60, I am thinking of keeping the Moves and sending the Senses back. As they are more suited to my needs, and to my ears don't sound a great deal different in the real world....i.e outside and public transport where these are to be used. 

Usually it goes audio > fit  > everything else when it comes to headphones, but as these are to be used on the go other factors have had to be taken into account. For example, the Senses do seem a bit delicate, with buttons on the backs of the cups and a massive volume rocker on the LH cup. This cements the officey vibe I get from the Senses as well, as they have a control scheme of a office headset with the back of the RH cup being taken up with a call answering button. The Moves have an inconspicuous little rocker on the bottom of one ear cup, and that's it. Everything else is just as a regular pair of headphones, which is what I wanted in a portable headphone. Minimal and not fussy.

In relation to fit, the suspension design works well on the Senses, but to me the ear pads are a bit thin. It's about 10mm of memory foam, so should be fine, but seems to compress very easily. That might just be me being nitpicky tho.

As for audio, they both sound great. Gun to my head the Senses sound clearer and have a higher clarity in the mids/highs. Whereas the Moves do get a little bit out of shape, but make up for this by having a better bottom end compared to the Senses. They are both great sub-£100 portable headphones, and I am going to play with both pairs till the end of the week and make a decision then. However, if the Senses had been their usual price of £99, then they would have gone back already, as they don't sound 2x better than the Moves, they're not built 2x better and some of the extras like open mic and the movement sensor you're paying for are not things I need.

Bottom line, for £60 they are a bargain. If they fit your other requirements, then sound-wish they you're not going to get better for the price.

Thanks for that snaff I have 2 other Bluetooth headphones I just bought it because it was cheap..I want to compare it to the XTZ headphone devine Bluetooth headphones i have ..The Sony MDR1ABT I have will be better than the Senses for sure

 

[Giogio]

Are the Philips M2BT support low latency aptx or only a regular aptx ?

only normal aptx. But unless you have some reasons not to buy the dongle with aptx low latency I would go for it, just in case you will end buying an Aptx LL headphone. You know, this thread makes a certain effect on people. A few ended buying several BT headphones with the excuse of comparing, and ended keeping many of them.
For sure the Azio will be more than enough for the Fidelio itself.
 

I want to compare it to the XTZ headphone devine Bluetooth headphones i have

Sense vs Divine? Why do you hate Plantronics so much? Do you really want to humiliate them?
A more proper comparison would be Backbeat Pro vs Divine. And imo the Divine win.
 
Btw, which kind of Dirac do you have? The app for iOS, the app for Android, or the software for PC/Mac?

 

[goody]

  only normal aptx. But unless you have some reasons not to buy the dongle with aptx low latency I would go for it, just in case you will end buying an Aptx LL headphone. You know, this thread makes a certain effect on people. A few ended buying several BT headphones with the excuse of comparing, and ended keeping many of them.
For sure the Azio will be more than enough for the Fidelio itself.
 
Sense vs Divine? Why do you hate Plantronics so much? Do you really want to humiliate them?
A more proper comparison would be Backbeat Pro vs Divine. And imo the Divine win.
 
Btw, which kind of Dirac do you have? The app for iOS, the app for Android, or the software for PC/Mac?

LOL...Giogio i know Divine will win and yes i use the Dirac app for IOS which is quite good dont you think?...I was surprised how good they sound when i first got them from the kickstarter program it has a great bass and its very detailed .....the only thing is the earpads i wish i could change them they make a funny squishy sound ...If i could put the pads for my beyerdynamic T51P on them they would the best !!!

 

[goody]

Why i like the Sony MDR-1ABT compared to the ATH-WSS99BT 
 
 
NFC : This might not be a big deal to a lot of people but it is to me especially with my sony dap ZX100 it makes for a swift connection to bluetooth
 
 
BATTERY LIFE: The sony has 30 hrs battery life i certainly cannot sniff at that i have used it for a mouth without charging although i wish it had the voice prompt that tells you how much battery life is left instead of the flashing red light.
 
 
COMFORT: The sony's are way more comfortable for me it has nice ear cups they don't hurt your ears over a long period like the ATH although you can change the pads on it.. and another thing i find the Sony's lighter on the head than the ATH
 
 
LDAC: I have a Sony DAP ZX100 and when i use LDAC with Hi-Res it just sounds so good very dynamic the soundstage widens and the highs and mids become clearer it was quite a revelation for me ..If you use these headphones LDAC is a must..
           
One thing i do like about the about the ATH was the volume was louder and it had a great bass and an excellent bluetooth range .
 
 
 Overall for me i just found the sony to be a better all rounder and the ace up its sleeve was the new bluetooth profile called LDAC it made my music sound like it was wired heck it was competing with my B&W P7 which is one of my favourite headphones.

 

[Giogio]

  LOL...Giogio i know Divine will win and yes i use the Dirac app for IOS which is quite good dont you think?

No idea, I have no iOS.
I use Dirac for Windows, which I was told may sound a bit better than the iOS one, as the algorithm is newer.
The iOS app is based on the Dirac HD player for iOS, which was optimised for the Apple Earbuds. XTZ has built its App on that, changing the filters so that it works with the sound profile of the Divine. But the PC/Mac software is newer.
If you listen music from your PC/Mac I would definitely suggest you to invest the little extra money for the desktop Dirac, it is worth each single penny.
 

  Why i like the Sony MDR-1ABT compared to the ATH-WSS99BT 
 
 
NFC : This might not be a big deal to a lot of people but it is to me especially with my sony dap ZX100 it makes for a swift connection to bluetooth
 
 
BATTERY LIFE: The sony has 30 hrs battery life i certainly cannot sniff at that i have used it for a mouth without charging although i wish it had the voice prompt that tells you how much battery life is left instead of the flashing red light.
 
 
COMFORT: The sony's are way more comfortable for me it has nice ear cups they don't hurt your ears over a long period like the ATH although you can change the pads on it.. and another thing i find the Sony's lighter on the head than the ATH
 
 
LDAC: I have a Sony DAP ZX100 and when i use LDAC with Hi-Res it just sounds so good very dynamic the soundstage widens and the highs and mids become clearer it was quite a revelation for me ..If you use these headphones LDAC is a must..
           
One thing i do like about the about the ATH was the volume was louder and it had a great bass and an excellent bluetooth range .

I have never used NFC in my life, NFC is only to pair things the first time. How many things do you pair in your life? And you cannot even do the effort of opening the settings and click on "pair"? Waste of money. (by "you" I am meaning generally, not you you).
But each with his own.
 
Yeah, 30 is better than 12 (why did ATH write 6 on their website, I was shocked, I did not write on your video because I wanted to test again, I am testing them every day at max vol with bass pushed, they never last less than 10 hours, mostly 12). Anyway, I have two usb charger, every night I charge my Mobile near me (used as alarm clock too) and the headphones somewhere else.
 
Comfort, I believe you. Still, I urge you to buy the angled HM5.
Which also improve the sound.
 
LDAC, this is imo the only real strength of the 1ABT. But I will tell when I try them.
Probably when you say that you prefer the 1ABT over this or that headphone you should always say that this depend on the LDAC, so people know that without an LDAC player they may not have your same positive experience.
 
And talking of this, how would you compare the sound of the 1ABT with Aptx and with LDAC?

 

[goody]

  No idea, I have no iOS.
I use Dirac for Windows, which I was told may sound a bit better than the iOS one, as the algorithm is newer.
The iOS app is based on the Dirac HD player for iOS, which was optimised for the Apple Earbuds. XTZ has built its App on that, changing the filters so that it works with the sound profile of the Divine. But the PC/Mac software is newer.
If you listen music from your PC/Mac I would definitely suggest you to invest the little extra money for the desktop Dirac, it is worth each single penny.
 
I have never used NFC in my life, NFC is only to pair things the first time. How many things do you pair in your life? And you cannot even do the effort of opening the settings and click on "pair"? Waste of money. (by "you" I am meaning generally, not you you).
But each with his own.
 
Yeah, 30 is better than 12 (why did ATH write 6 on their website, I was shocked, I did not write on your video because I wanted to test again, I am testing them every day at max vol with bass pushed, they never last less than 10 hours, mostly 12). Anyway, I have two usb charger, every night I charge my Mobile near me (used as alarm clock too) and the headphones somewhere else.
 
Comfort, I believe you. Still, I urge you to buy the angled HM5.
Which also improve the sound.
 
LDAC, this is imo the only real strength of the 1ABT. But I will tell when I try them.
Probably when you say that you prefer the 1ABT over this or that headphone you should always say that this depend on the LDAC, so people know that without an LDAC player they may not have your same positive experience.
 
And talking of this, how would you compare the sound of the 1ABT with Aptx and with LDAC?

I thought as much as well somebody asked me the question about about battery life ... i remember them lasting up to 11hrs for me but i saw 6hrs in the manual which surprised me .. I think for me if i compare the Aptx with LDAC ...LDAC sounds fuller and the soundstage is very wide and the treble has more bite....its like listening to a 320kbps to 160kbps mp3 file if you know what i mean ...it seems to give more information in the music it sounds less compressed

 

[Giogio]

   I think for me if i compare the Aptx with LDAC ...LDAC sounds fuller and the soundstage is very wide and the treble has more bite....its like listening to a 320kbps to 160kbps mp3 file if you know what i mean ...it seems to give more information in the music it sounds less compressed

Do you notice this also when listening to lower rate Mp3 (160, 192)?
I mean, in theory, the Aptx should be more than enough to transmit fully without any loss of quality a 320 mp3. But not a Flac.
So, you normally do not notice much difference between Flac and Mp3 with BT, using SBC or Aptx.
If LDAC has more bandwidth, it could make the difference between Flac and Mp3 noticeable. But I suppose that when listening to 320mp3 there should not be any difference between Aptx and LDAC, and even less when listening to 192, 160, or 128Mp3.
Can you check?

 

[1wyseman]

I concede, the ATH WS99BT are magnificent and might edge out my favorite Fidelio M2BT--in some ways.
 
It takes a winding road to get to the ATH pinnacle and my M2BT's will stay in first place, but the ATH have moved from 4th to second in one leap.
 
When I used the ATH on Foobar with the Real Bass Exciter plugged in--as per Giogio's guidance, sound got real...very REAL! (And I don't even have the angled earpads yet.) My direct comparison with the M2BT's was unfair because I left the Exciter on the same settings for the ATH and the sound was overwhelming, and not in a good way. I thought I was going to have a stroke or jar something loose in my chest. (Huge pipe organ piece) When I take some time to play with the foobar, I will run some more heats.
 
A few problems with this is that there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get here with ATH--foobar, exciter--with correct settings, 2 sets of earpads. The main problem for me being that I don't use the PC for my music source. I've gone FiiO (X5 & X7) with Spotify and Tidal thrown in. Other physical aspects put me off, too: Size, weight, controls.
 
But they can produce a truly magnificent experience--when the conditions are right. Thanks Giogio for turning me on. 

 

[braaam]

Love all the research that you guys are doing!! I still like the M2BT but there is a lot of room for improvement in the BT field. I'm keeping an eye on this thread

 

[1wyseman]

Bowers & Wilkins P5 Wireless

I've been studying the "Glossaries of Terms" and "Describing Sound Glossary" here on Head-fi in order to say something smart and worthy about these amazing BT headphones. I got too hung up on all that, so here goes--in my own words. I'm such a rebel! I hope it doesn't offend.

The look is unique and appealing. Soft black sheepskin head band with shiny chrome free-form sculpted wires holding roundish rectangular ear pads--on ear, with passive noise cancelling (Average effectiveness, works for me; but I don't require it so not a good judge.) Very comfortable on my large head with average, flat ears. The backs of the earpads have large but classy Bowers & Wilkins logos in chrome on black ovals. Sounds awful, but they really are gorgeous. They look like they would be very delicate and need pampering. Not at all--small, sturdy, light and tough...yet beautiful!

Proprietary audio cable fits inside the ear pad after you remove the magnetized pad. They are very solid and sure-fitting: pop off/pop on. BT distance is a real 30 ft. (Less for obstructions.) Battery life is rated 17 hours. I've never run out in a full 12-hour day of use. Ergonomic, easy to find and use controls on the right earcup. These are the easiest BT headphones to pair and reconnect of all that I have ever used. I have never understood why the process is so different on each brand and model. They do shut off after a certain time lapse of non-use. I don't like that. (Or the kind that shut off when you remove from head, etc. I'll sacrifice the battery life, thank you.)

These are from the renowned British maker of high-end HiFi speakers and they use the same design principles for these headphones. The Bass Head is going to appreciate them 95% of the time. Full, rich and deeeeep. (Not a word found in the "Describing Sound Glossary".) Everything is right from bottom to top. The sound is effortless. Full, rich, capable clean highs--nothing forced. Mids are complete; everything's there.

Precise, controlled--the sound stage is as if you are the sound engineer. Everything is where it should be. Nothing is manipulated, forced or contorted.

I love these headphones; I rate them near the top of my list. $400 at Amazon. They are like an Audi. But I suppose a Jaguar would be more appropriate. You would love to be seen in these--if that's important.

 

[kcaccamise]

Has anyone had a chance to try both the P5 wireless and the M2bt?
 
I apologize if this has been covered before but i wasn't able to locate where someone had compared these two.
 
I may just purchase both and return the one i like less, but i would enjoying reading someone else take on these two as well. 

 

[1wyseman]

  Has anyone had a chance to try both the P5 wireless and the M2bt?
 
I apologize if this has been covered before but i wasn't able to locate where someone had compared these two.
 
I may just purchase both and return the one i like less, but i would enjoying reading someone else take on these two as well. 

Yes, I have both. When I said the P5's were near the top of my list, M2BT is at the top. They are my favorites. More bass; everything is bigger. But comparing them side by side is an excellent idea. They are very similar to each other. (Small, on-ear, few bells & whistles, stylish, BIG sound.)

 

[grinny]

Hello, everyone! I need help about choosing a BT headphone for wife. She will use it with her laptop, to listen to music and when she goes to other room (kitchen I suppose she wants to be able to pick up Skype calls. (I don't know if it's even possible, some sites say yes)
 
I searched some models and she seems to like Jabra Move, she doesn't care about sound fidelity so, does anyone have a better opinion? It can be on-ear or over-ear, and our budget is 70-120 EUR. Thanks!

 

[Giogio]

  Hello, everyone! I need help about choosing a BT headphone for wife. She will use it with her laptop, to listen to music and when she goes to other room (kitchen I suppose she wants to be able to pick up Skype calls. (I don't know if it's even possible, some sites say yes)
 
I searched some models and she seems to like Jabra Move, she doesn't care about sound fidelity so, does anyone have a better opinion? It can be on-ear or over-ear, and our budget is 70-120 EUR. Thanks!

If she doesn't care, than there is no "better". Better is only what she finds better.
I would stick with what you have found that should for sure let her answering to skype.
Anyway, as far as I know any BT headphone which has got a mic and supports the HSP (Headset) Bluetooth Profile, should do that. Skype is just as talking with your mobile after all.
If there is something else which can make the skype thing easier, I do not know. Specially, I do not know of any HEADPHONE which is "better for skype" nor I can imagine why.
WHat I can suggest you is to buy the Azio BTD-V401 USB Dongle. It will be totally useless with the Move, as the Move do not support Aptx (an audio codec with better quality), so maybe in that case you may want to choose another headphone. But what the Azio will give you is that it comes with the CSR Harmony Bluetooth Stack, a software which enable the Aptx features, organize the connection of devices, AND (here we go) offer a Skype plugin which supposedly should make the answering to skype through your headphones easier. I did not try it, though.

 

[Techfixation]

Hi Giogio and all...

I thought I'd come and lurk around here for awhile. All is quiet on the FiiO X7 thread--waiting for FW updates and Amplifier Modules.

You helped me a lot with my decision to get my Philips Fidelio M2BT's last winter. (We had a lengthy conversation in the Amazon comments under your M2BT review (Andy). I love them so much that after inheriting some money from a long lost aunt (I kid you not!), I bought a second pair, just because I wanted to be sure to have them for a long time.

And then I bought 8 more headphones.  OCD? Hoarder? No, my new hobby, I guess. All of the purchases were influenced by comments and reviews in this thread and your Amazon reviews (among others), so thank you!

I'd like to rank them in order of my preference, but I need more time with each of them and they all have different attributes for different purposes. The Fidelios rank above and beyond all the rest; your concerns about them were not things I had to be concerned with. I'll just list them in their current order of my preference and I'll try to join in with more intelligent comments as time goes by. I'm an audiophile wanna be without the vocabulary or confidence.

1. Philips Fidelio M2BT
2. Sennheiser Momentum 2 M2AEBT (newest incarnation)
3. B&W P5 Wireless (Overall general-purpose wow!)
4. B&O BeoPlay H8 (I would be afraid of being mugged for these in public.)
5. Audio Technica ATH WS99BT (HATE the volume controls, Brainwavs Hybrid earpads--velour+leather)
6. Harmon Kardon BT Premium (I think I bought the very last factory sealed/boxed pair in existence.)
7. Definitive Technology Symphony 1 (Wearing now streaming Spotify through FiiO X7, RHODES "Run"--wonderful!)
8. Plantronics BackBeat Pro (Ugly, hiding beautiful swan underneath...or something like that. Make that black swan.
9. Denon AHGC20 (I want to like these more...hoping they'll grow on me. They confuse me somehow.)

Keep up the great work everyone!

I would be very interested to hear what you make of the Symphony 1's as there's not too much info on them?

I'm someone who likes headphones with a nice rich warm sound and a lot of deep bass! They also need to be comfortable for long periods at a time!

I mainly use wireless headphones for watching movies at night, especially movies with lots of action as this is when I don't want to disturb the neighbours with my 5.1 cinema setup!

I agree with you about the Fidelio's, they too have my favourite sound out of all the ones I've tried with fantastic sub bass, clear mids and rolled off highs which don't pierce my ears during loud action sequences in movies!

The main problem I had with the Fidelio's was that a got a high pitch buzz from the right ear piece which I experienced from 2 different sets! I also found them to have noticeable hiss which is a real issue for me during silent parts of a movie or with dialog. Obviously it's not much of an issue when music is playing loud but for my preferences it's enough to rule them out!

I wanted to like the Denon's as they too have a fantastic sub bass, look great, are pretty good for hiss and support low latency but there's something lacking in their sound which I can't really put my finger on (thin in the mids?). They also have an extreme clamping force and I experienced some quality control issues!

The Plantronic's although having lots of features and a reasonable sound, lacked the deep bass I was after and with ANC on had noticeable hiss. With ANC off they were very good for hiss but the sound signature changed becoming less rich and losing even more bass!

I've heard the Def Tech's are pretty bassy and they look comfy, I'm interested to hear whether you think they would suit my listening preferences?

I'm also interested how you would rate the others for bass and hiss?

Please read my own comparisons on the 15 I've tried so far which you'll find on page 104!

Thanks,