[analogsurviver]

  Hi Joe
I am trying to correct for my own rather steep roll off in the higher frequencies due to hearing loss-and am using CD and or SACD's as source-not a computer-but that would be a great way to go otherwise. I have room EQ for my speakers already. It does not help with my own roll off.

With all due respect @Exacoustatowner, I believe that EQing in the treble for hearing loss is a no-no.
 
Mild EQing, say to about + 3 dB @20 kHz, is OK and acceptable. If you have to turn up frequency X up by more than about 3 dB to hear it at all, or particularly when this boost reaches or even exceeds 10 dB, by setting the permanent EQ this way, you are almost guaranteeing yourself to inflict yet more hearing loss - and if you repeat yet another equalization curve that would yield once more the high frequencies to be audible , you willl be going deaf pretty quick.
 
Like it or not, we are getting older - it is good for some things, but I can hardly think of a person who would not like to be young again - preferably with the mind, experience and wisdom gained over the years. Sorry it does not work that way in real life.
 
Equalizing the headphones to yield sound as close to the sound you hear live is OK - equalizing them to the point of hearing as teenager is not. Although limited is our hearing at old(er) age still a wonderful asset to enjoy music - an occasional concerto for triangles exempted. And is worth preserving best we can - and that we can do better than we were teenagers being blasted at disco and other loud places for hours at the time.

 

[Rico613]

  With all due respect @Exacoustatowner, I believe that EQing in the treble for hearing loss is a no-no.
 

 
Since I use my EQ to adjust for high frequency hearing loss I just checked the sound pressure coming from my cans with a hand held meter.  The overall comfortable listening level for pink noise was 72 db.  The highest frequencies I hear are 8 kHz - 10 kHz.  With EQ the sound pressure for these frequencies was 85 db.  Based on what I find on the web, 85 db does not provide a danger to hearing for less than 8 hours of sustained exposure.  I think it is a generally good caution to keep listening levels at reasonable levels and this is probably especially important for those of us using EQ.  It makes no sense to boost frequencies that can't be heard or are borderline audible.
 
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Since I use my EQ to adjust for high frequency hearing loss I just checked the sound pressure coming from my cans with a hand held meter.  The overall pink noise at a comfortable listening level was 72 db.  The highest frequencies I hear are 8 kHz - 10 kHz.  With EQ the sound pressure for these frequencies was 85 db.  Based on what I find on the web, 85 db does not provide a danger to hearing for less than 8 hours of sustained exposure.  I think it is a generally good caution to keep listening levels at reasonable levels and this is probably especially important for those of us using EQ.  
 
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

This is a good recommendation.
 
I merely wanted to show the extreme case that would have the consequences described -  like pushing frequencies above 10 kHz to the max, in hardrware EQs usually up to + 12 dB.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  With all due respect @Exacoustatowner, I believe that EQing in the treble for hearing loss is a no-no.
 
Mild EQing, say to about + 3 dB @20 kHz, is OK and acceptable. If you have to turn up frequency X up by more than about 3 dB to hear it at all, or particularly when this boost reaches or even exceeds 10 dB, by setting the permanent EQ this way, you are almost guaranteeing yourself to inflict yet more hearing loss - and if you repeat yet another equalization curve that would yield once more the high frequencies to be audible , you willl be going deaf pretty quick.
 
Like it or not, we are getting older - it is good for some things, but I can hardly think of a person who would not like to be young again - preferably with the mind, experience and wisdom gained over the years. Sorry it does not work that way in real life.
 
Equalizing the headphones to yield sound as close to the sound you hear live is OK - equalizing them to the point of hearing as teenager is not. Although limited is our hearing at old(er) age still a wonderful asset to enjoy music - an occasional concerto for triangles exempted. And is worth preserving best we can - and that we can do better than we were teenagers being blasted at disco and other loud places for hours at the time.

 
Hey- I appreciate the warning! I'm aware. I'd be boosting +3-6 from 2K to 15K (12?K). Anything above that would likely be pointless. After reading your comments-I got a SPL Program  with spectrum analyzer- just to be careful-so again-thanks! 

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Hey- I appreciate the warning! I'm aware. I'd be boosting +3-6 from 2K to 15K (12?K). Anything above that would likely be pointless. After reading your comments-I got a SPL Program  with spectrum analyzer- just to be careful-so again-thanks! 

No problem - I apologize for being so direct, but I wanted to make sure the message does get across.
 
Would you like to share which SPL program with spectrum analyzer did you get ?

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  No problem - I apologize for being so direct, but I wanted to make sure the message does get across.
 
Would you like to share which SPL program with spectrum analyzer did you get ?

No problem!
I got a Spectrum Analyzer Program for iPhone

 

[Exacoustatowner]

   
Since I use my EQ to adjust for high frequency hearing loss I just checked the sound pressure coming from my cans with a hand held meter.  The overall comfortable listening level for pink noise was 72 db.  The highest frequencies I hear are 8 kHz - 10 kHz.  With EQ the sound pressure for these frequencies was 85 db.  Based on what I find on the web, 85 db does not provide a danger to hearing for less than 8 hours of sustained exposure.  I think it is a generally good caution to keep listening levels at reasonable levels and this is probably especially important for those of us using EQ.  It makes no sense to boost frequencies that can't be heard or are borderline audible.
 
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

 
My HE-560 sound pretty nice without hearing aides-if I turn up the treble all the way (+6).  I just discovered that the tone controls on Yamaha receiver don't work with the 7.1 ch analog in-but do affect Stereo inputs-so I hooked them up. Now that I have access to the TONE control it's better. That said, I also am expecting an ART 355 Dual  32 band EQ tomorrow. My hearing rolls off starting at about 2 Khz- all the way up, It's kind of odd in that it drops around 10 db-then holds steady at -10 out to 8 Khz (limit of the test). I do have the SPL Spectrum analyzer program so I don't fry my remaining hearing.
I'll be really curious to see if I note any loss of imaging.

 

[Rico613]

Good luck with the ART 355 Dual.  

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  Good luck with the ART 355 Dual.  I found the treble frequencies required more finite and irregular adjustments than the mid and lower bands.  The technique I'm using now is to first adjust each slider somewhat independently to a comfortable hearing level for that frequency.  Then I listen to the 'sweep', rapid succession of frequencies, to try and isolate any that are too high or too low in relation to the overall sweep.  It seems to work well.  I download the frequencies from   http://www.wavtones.com/functiongenerator.php

Thanks Rico! I'm initially going to try and set the sliders to compensate for my hearing trace from the audiologist- at least to 8 Khz.
Thanks for the link!! 

 

[Exacoustatowner]

  Good luck with the ART 355 Dual.  I found the treble frequencies required more finite and irregular adjustments than the mid and lower bands.  The technique I'm using now is to first adjust each slider somewhat independently to a comfortable hearing level for that frequency.  Then I listen to the 'sweep', rapid succession of frequencies, to try and isolate any that are too high or too low in relation to the overall sweep.  It seems to work well.  I download the frequencies from   http://www.wavtones.com/functiongenerator.php

Hi Rico
I am considering the Rane DEQ60L if the ART 355 disappoints me! I see it has TRS and XLR connections. My sound source Oppo BDP-105D universal player, DAC, has XLR out but my Yamaha Receiver does not-just unbalanced RCA inputs. The ART 355 has all 3 connectors, XLR, TRS, and RCA.
I think Radio shack has stereo TRS to RCA connectors. Perhaps those would work?

 

[Rico613]

Hi Rico I am considering the Rane DEQ60L if the ART 355 disappoints me! I see it has TRS and XLR connections. My sound source Oppo BDP-105D universal player, DAC, has XLR out but my Yamaha Receiver does not-just unbalanced RCA inputs. The ART 355 has all 3 connectors, XLR, TRS, and RCA.
I think Radio shack has stereo TRS to RCA connectors. Perhaps those would work?

 
I think you're going to want to get the DEQ60L.  I tried a Klark-Teknik analog equalizer and it sounded like mud.  
 
I talked to the Rane tech support about the balanced vs single end.  Both the XLR and 3 pole TRS sockets on the DEQ60L are balanced.  You would need to use balanced XLR cables in and out and then use a Jensen Iso Max PC 2XR transformer converter.  http://www.markertek.com/product/jen-pc2xr/jensen-pc-2xr-2-ch-iso-max-interface  Check around for a good price on the Iso Max you might find one for around $200.  
 
Here is my current setup:  

DAC ---> balanced XLR ---> DEQ60L ---> balanced XLR ---> Iso Max ---> single end RCA ---> Amplifier.  
 
It is a PITA because you need another set of cables in addition to the Iso Max.  I'd stay away from those TRS-XLR adapter plugs for converting the signal.  It is possible to convert one way but can cause damage the other way.  Getting a transformer is the right way to do it.  There is very little sound degradation with the Iso Max.   If your lucky you might find the Rane DEQ 60L on eBay for under $500, but they are rare and sell fast.  

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Hi Rico
I just hooked up the ART 355. I must say it seems to cleanly restore the treble "sparkle" to the music- I was listening to a Diana Krall SACD and prior to hooking it up I could hear where she and the other musicians were on my virtual Soundstage. With it hooked up I perceive the same-with the treble restored. I CAN see that it imprecise- but my loss is odd-down 10-15 db rather sharply from 1 Khz-so I just slide the 1.25 to 20 Khz sliders all the way up. Even so my Paradigms sound a little rolled off-but good ("tube like") but my HiFiman HE-560 sound great.
I bought from Amazon-so I MAY give the DEQ a try. If it is cleaner-I will keep it! I notice that it is increasing the bass-even in center detent-so not very precise! But I hear no hum or hiss-and at least simple stereo imaging is good. From your comments-I am almost SURE the DEQ 60L will please my audiophile bones… Ordering soon!
Oppo-BDP-105 D, RCA STEREO out to ART 355 RCA channel 1 and 2 in, RCA out to Yamaha V657 Receiver.
This does nothing for the 5.1 Analog in for my SACD 5.1 or Movie TruHD 5.1. If I decide its the way to go-I could buy a few more ART 355's….

 
I think you're going to want to get the DEQ60L.  I tried a Klark-Teknik analog equalizer and it sounded like mud.  
 
I talked to the Rane tech support about the balanced vs single end.  Both the XLR and 3 pole TRS sockets on the DEQ60L are balanced.  You would need to use balanced XLR cables in and out and then use a Jensen Iso Max PC 2XR transformer converter.  http://www.markertek.com/product/jen-pc2xr/jensen-pc-2xr-2-ch-iso-max-interface  Check around for a good price on the Iso Max you might find one for around $200.  
 
Here is my current setup:  

DAC ---> balanced XLR ---> DEQ60L ---> balanced XLR ---> Iso Max ---> single end RCA ---> Amplifier.  
 
It is a PITA because you need another set of cables in addition to the Iso Max.  I'd stay away from those TRS-XLR adapter plugs for converting the signal.  It is possible to convert one way but can cause damage the other way.  Getting a transformer is the right way to do it.  There is very little sound degradation with the Iso Max.   If your lucky you might find the Rane DEQ 60L on eBay for under $500, but they are rare and sell fast.  

 

 

[Rico613]

.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Hi Rico
I just hooked up the ART 355. I must say it seems to cleanly restore the treble "sparkle" to the music- I was listening to a Diana Krall SACD and prior to hooking it up I could hear where she and the other musicians were on my virtual Soundstage. With it hooked up I perceive the same-with the treble restored. I CAN see that it imprecise- but my loss is odd-down 10-15 db rather sharply from 1 Khz-so I just slide the 1.25 to 20 Khz sliders all the way up. Even so my Paradigms sound a little rolled off-but good ("tube like") but my HiFiman HE-560 sound great.
I bought from Amazon-so I MAY give the DEQ a try. If it is cleaner-I will keep it! I notice that it is increasing the bass-even in center detent-so not very precise! But I hear no hum or hiss-and at least simple stereo imaging is good. From your comments-I am almost SURE the DEQ 60L will please my audiophile bones… Ordering soon!
Oppo-BDP-105 D, RCA STEREO out to ART 355 RCA channel 1 and 2 in, RCA out to Yamaha V657 Receiver.
This does nothing for the 5.1 Analog in for my SACD 5.1 or Movie TruHD 5.1. If I decide its the way to go-I could buy a few more ART 355's….
 

   
I think you're going to want to get the DEQ60L.  I tried a Klark-Teknik analog equalizer and it sounded like mud.  
 
I talked to the Rane tech support about the balanced vs single end.  Both the XLR and 3 pole TRS sockets on the DEQ60L are balanced.  You would need to use balanced XLR cables in and out and then use a Jensen Iso Max PC 2XR transformer converter.  http://www.markertek.com/product/jen-pc2xr/jensen-pc-2xr-2-ch-iso-max-interface  Check around for a good price on the Iso Max you might find one for around $200.  
 
Here is my current setup:  

DAC ---> balanced XLR ---> DEQ60L ---> balanced XLR ---> Iso Max ---> single end RCA ---> Amplifier.  
 
It is a PITA because you need another set of cables in addition to the Iso Max.  I'd stay away from those TRS-XLR adapter plugs for converting the signal.  It is possible to convert one way but can cause damage the other way.  Getting a transformer is the right way to do it.  There is very little sound degradation with the Iso Max.   If your lucky you might find the Rane DEQ 60L on eBay for under $500, but they are rare and sell fast.  

 

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/
Rico
Is this it? 
If the sound is actually better with the Rane than the ART 355….

 

[Rico613]

That's it !