[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

I think your comparison to an "illness" is completely wrong. In life, we hear the same sounds in different tonal balances all the time. Some familiar sound, like my friend's voice, sounds different depending on the distance, room acoustics or outdoors, etc. The recordings of music will have different tonal balance depending on where the microphones were placed.

In that case, you would still want a flat response so you would be able to hear just what the microphone recorded while it was in the position it was.

Quote:

There really is no such thing as a "flat" reference. There is no single original tonal balance.

Perhaps, but that does not reduce the need or validity of accurate audio reproduction. The point of having a speaker or headphone with a flat response is so that it will reproduce the audio signal as-is.

Quote:

I do think for me the time domain is more important, and you have no idea what you are doing to the time domain when you apply EQ, but you are likely time-smearing.

Well, the EQ I use is a linear phase EQ, and a very good one at that, so I'm not too worried about phase shift.

 

[leeperry]

but linear phase mode in Electri-Q is not usable in realtime...because of buffering, it makes constant glitches when you seek/play a new track in foobar

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Are you sure? I have a very sensitive ear and have never noticed any problems at all. Right now I use the "FIR Min" mode and have never noticed any problems related to phase shifting or time smearing. And if I don't notice them, they essentially do not exist at all.

 

[leeperry]

well it's explained in the manual, and I have the same problem w/ "FIR Min"...when I seek or open a new file, I get audio stutter due to buffering

it doesn't occur in Digital mode, and I use George Yonhg's VST wrapper in the latest foobar in KS on XP SP3 w/ ElectriQ 1.87

if you know a way to get linear mode to work w/o hiccup, I'm all ears

PS: I also can't seem to be able to do "S-Plane Peak Type II", only I is available in /Peak/Lin-Phase Only/S-Plane

 

[mike1127]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif In that case, you would still want a flat response so you would be able to hear just what the microphone recorded while it was in the position it was.

You aren't speaking to my point which is that the ability of the brain to adapt to different tonal balances isn't an "illness" but a feature.

Of course you want a flat response, all else being equal. Once you introduce an equalizer, all else is no longer equal (unintended pun there).
Quote:

Perhaps, but that does not reduce the need or validity of accurate audio reproduction. The point of having a speaker or headphone with a flat response is so that it will reproduce the audio signal as-is.

Normally a speaker or headphone is designed to balance various engineering criteria including frequency- and time-domain behavior. There are tradeoffs... some design which is less flat may have better time-domain behavior and hence more accuracy. When I really like a headphone, I trust that the designer did a good job balancing criteria at that price point.

Quote:

Well, the EQ I use is a linear phase EQ, and a very good one at that, so I'm not too worried about phase shift.

What's of concern is the group delay. Also you mention later that your EQ uses FIR (finite impulse response) filters. I've always thought these had a problem because they are unnatural... nothing in nature has a finite impulse response. Anyway, you can't change the frequency domain without changing time domain behavior as well.

I don't dispute that your headphones sound better to you post-equalization. I just dispute the validity of this as a general approach.

-Mike

 

[leeperry]

so anyone manages to use Electri-Q in linear mode in foobar w/o glitches at seeking/playing new tracks

 

[PiccoloNamek]

The real question is, do you get glitches during actual uninterrupted playback?

 

[leeperry]

nope, only while seeking or playing a new track...it's clearly stated in the manual that linear mode uses some buffering.

 

[Ashirgo]

So, which mode is the best sounding one? I presume that Orfanidis peak type is the most preferable, hmm?

I have a glitch due to the buffering, but it is not a thing I would not be able to live with

 

[leeperry]

I use Orfanidis in Digital mode, no glitch..great sound!

it might sound slightly better w/ S-Type Peak I in Linear, but the glitches are darn annoying...

I'll ask Christian Budde

 

[Ashirgo]

Well, they say in the manual that the Orfanidis type peaks are better, slower but better. I am not sure about the linear mode (if it yields any improvement), though.

 

[leeperry]

the manual is kinda broken, because then a few pages later they say that S-Peak mode is better than the basics...and Orfanidis is indeed a "basic" filter

 

[Ashirgo]

Well, so I just have to ask that question, one has to download that plugin with S-Peaks separately, right?

Strange things happen with my Electri-Q version, I cannot find these peaks anywhere.

EDIT: Okay, now I know where these peaks are. I cannot tell if there is any difference, but nevertheless I fell much better now

 

[leeperry]

well, I used to have a /S-Plane/ menu and then I could choose peak type I or II..but not anymore

now all I got is /Peak/Lin-Phase Only/S-Plane ?!

anyway Christian Budde has replied to me :

Quote:

but what is preferable for the most transparent EQ w/o ruining the harmonics ?! the manual is not very clear...it's either Orfanidis in digital mode, or S-Type in Linear Phase mode? the second one seems to sound better to my ears. Both modes do not alter the harmonics in any way. They only differ in the shape of the unavoidable filter ringing. With linear phase mode you kind-of preserve the transients, while allowing pre-ringing (which is probably a bit unnatural) on the other hand minimum phase type of filters (as in "digital" mode) only have a minimum (post) ringing, but in some cases (high filter orders, small bandwidth) the punch kind of slurs. I also can't seem to be able to choose "S-Plane Peak Type II", only I is available in /Peak/Lin-Phase Only/S-Plane. I'll have a look at this issue and will fix it with the next update. and what's w/ the buffering? it makes stuttering glitches when I seek in foobar or open a new file..why not making it silent instead of stuttering? This relies on the general incompatibility of WinAmp DSP and VST plugins. It could only be solved with some kind of work around, that hasn't been implemented yet. Though it should only be audible/annoying in the linear phase mode.

 

[]|[ GorE]

Amazing article , PiccoloNamek .
I have nothing to fault or critique in the end result - applied to my Koss UR40 powered by the laptop's Realtek ALC268 Intel HD codec.The first thing that came to my mind after a quick listen was "It's a Noise reduction plugin !" , seriously . A and Bing from Electri-Q revealed the amount of treble garbage that was emanating from my Koss drivers.The plugin was literally removing only the bad stuff leaving the good things behind..Now,my headphones sound a lot like my local THX certified cinema hall . But,on the down side,I can now hear the crappy treble output of my builtin codec ; the cymbals and hi-hats are clearly messed up . Time to get a new audio card,it would seem.

Thanks again .